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Disney goes back to it's roots... about time..


Toadofsky
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Yeah, I think the reason that he could never "get a break" is because he was always pushing the boundaries on animation/content, and he didn't tend to sugar coat things a whole lot.

I kind of wonder what his movies would have been like if he had had more control of what was going on, I know with Land Before Time he had to tone some stuff down cause it was considered too hardcore for the kiddies or something.

More people should be willing to push the boundaries like he did.

True, but I think that he didn't always make the best choices in films (Pebble and The Penguin anyone?).

I think the best he did was Dragon's Lair 1 and 2, Space Ace, Secret of Nihm, Land Before Time, Anastasia, All Dogs Go To Heaven, and Titan.

Shame that most of those weren't successes.

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Yeah, I think the reason that he could never "get a break" is because he was always pushing the boundaries on animation/content, and he didn't tend to sugar coat things a whole lot.

I kind of wonder what his movies would have been like if he had had more control of what was going on, I know with Land Before Time he had to tone some stuff down cause it was considered too hardcore for the kiddies or something.

More people should be willing to push the boundaries like he did.

Incidentally, this was one of the main reasons Bluth's studios went under. In the early 90's when he was actually running Don Bluth studios, he did more children's movies. But even though they were kids movies, they often dealt with some pretty adult themes. Secret of NIMH, All Dogs Go To Heaven, An American Tail, and most of his other movies pushed a lot of boundaries. Because the American public has the weird idea that animation is solely for children, he really did have a hard time getting a break.

Fast forward to 1992. 20th Century Fox, a media behemoth in every way, is starting an animation studio, and Bluth was helming it. Anastasia was their first project, and even though it was a pretty mature twist on a princess story, it released to critical international acclaim in 97. The movie grossed $140,000 worldwide, well over doubling it's 53 million dollar budget. They decided to try again, and Bluth received a gargantuan amount of funding for his next project, Titan AE. 75 million, to be exact. That's massive for a 2D animated movie. Even though most people that actually saw it liked it, it only made $36,754,634 worldwide. So Fox shut down the studio.

So, in answer to your question, if Bluth had creative control to push the boundaries with his movies, you ended up with horribly underpraised historic gems of American animation like Anastasia and Titan AE.

And in response to your final statement, Americans aren't willing to accept the idea that animation could be for anyone but the kids. If you push the boundaries, you lose profit and get shut down. That fact is one of the many reasons I got out of animation before I even graduated. You churn out whatever the kids are laughing at, however cliche and done to death it might be. Creativity in animation is not well tolerated.

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Don't know why I registered for these forums just to respond to this topic, but I was getting around to doing so anyway. I loved "Land Before Time" and "All Dogs Gone to Heaven" but I hated "Anastasia" and "Titan A.E." because the latter just seems so...cold; I could see why they couldn't compete against Disney because even in the Mouse's later '90s period, they always tried to infuse personality into their pictures, and Bluth seemed to have given up on that. Honestly, "Titan A.E." could have been filmed as a live-action B movie for about a third of what it cost to make it animated, and probably would have looked better, besides. It was a waste of a theatrical animation studio.

Anyway, I'm guardedly optimistic about the "Princess and the Frog"; some of the talking animals seem a little too manic, but after seeing "Bolt" I have a feeling the new Disney is on the right track.

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Don't know why I registered for these forums just to respond to this topic, but I was getting around to doing so anyway. I loved "Land Before Time" and "All Dogs Gone to Heaven" but I hated "Anastasia" and "Titan A.E." because the latter just seems so...cold; I could see why they couldn't compete against Disney because even in the Mouse's later '90s period, they always tried to infuse personality into their pictures, and Bluth seemed to have given up on that. Honestly, "Titan A.E." could have been filmed as a live-action B movie for about a third of what it cost to make it animated, and probably would have looked better, besides. It was a waste of a theatrical animation studio.

Anyway, I'm guardedly optimistic about the "Princess and the Frog"; some of the talking animals seem a little too manic, but after seeing "Bolt" I have a feeling the new Disney is on the right track.

While I can agree that Titan was NOT Bluth's strongest film, I don't necessarily cold. Yet, you could tell where some scenes they cut corners, especially in the c.g. work. It wasn't done well in some of the scenes.

But then again, with some of the content in Anastasia, and All Dogs, he did chart some dark territory.

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And when Animation gets accepted as not-for-kids, such as "The Simpsons," you get crappy shows like "King of the Hill" and "Family Guy" that suck out creativity in the genre. You know, like Futurama, one of the best animated shows ever made.

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I'm personally pretty excited about this. I've been wishing that Disney would go back to this style of animation for years. I was so excited when there was like five minutes worth of this animation in Enchanted, so for a whole movie, well I'm pretty psyched. Disney better not let me down or I'll be pissed.

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It's only a relatively recent idea that animation is only for kids. If you look at the old Tex Avery and wartime Disney and Warner Brothers cartoons, they were made just as much for adults as they were for children, if not more so. Bluth honestly just kept those sensibilities in a much more mature way, and it was that maturity that doomed him. You know, that and Fox.

My fiance is obsessed with animation (especially olde time Disney), I've been hearing about/looking forward to this movie for the last year or so. Should be good.

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Incidentally, this was one of the main reasons Bluth's studios went under. In the early 90's when he was actually running Don Bluth studios, he did more children's movies. But even though they were kids movies, they often dealt with some pretty adult themes. Secret of NIMH, All Dogs Go To Heaven, An American Tail, and most of his other movies pushed a lot of boundaries. Because the American public has the weird idea that animation is solely for children, he really did have a hard time getting a break.

Fast forward to 1992. 20th Century Fox, a media behemoth in every way, is starting an animation studio, and Bluth was helming it. Anastasia was their first project, and even though it was a pretty mature twist on a princess story, it released to critical international acclaim in 97. The movie grossed $140,000 worldwide, well over doubling it's 53 million dollar budget. They decided to try again, and Bluth received a gargantuan amount of funding for his next project, Titan AE. 75 million, to be exact. That's massive for a 2D animated movie. Even though most people that actually saw it liked it, it only made $36,754,634 worldwide. So Fox shut down the studio.

So, in answer to your question, if Bluth had creative control to push the boundaries with his movies, you ended up with horribly underpraised historic gems of American animation like Anastasia and Titan AE.

And in response to your final statement, Americans aren't willing to accept the idea that animation could be for anyone but the kids. If you push the boundaries, you lose profit and get shut down. That fact is one of the many reasons I got out of animation before I even graduated. You churn out whatever the kids are laughing at, however cliche and done to death it might be. Creativity in animation is not well tolerated.

You're absolutely right.

Movie-wise, the 2d animation industry is an absolute disaster right now in the USA. Not to mention, 3d will be joining them shortly. Pixar might last, but the fifty billion other copycat studios are getting old real fast with the public. 3d has basically shot 2d in the back, and are putting the gun to their own heads, all the American public needs to do is to pull the trigger. Profits might be up currently, but I foresee a huge deflating soon~!

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You're absolutely right.

Movie-wise, the 2d animation industry is an absolute disaster right now in the USA. Not to mention, 3d will be joining them shortly. Pixar might last, but the fifty billion other copycat studios are getting old real fast with the public. 3d has basically shot 2d in the back, and are putting the gun to their own heads, all the American public needs to do is to pull the trigger. Profits might be up currently, but I foresee a huge deflating soon~!

I've never seen a Pixar movie I haven't liked. A Bug's Life and Cars were probably not their strongest films, but still good in my opinion. They've consistently made a good film. And it's because of the stories they tell, the actors they choose. They don't just get big names to fill the space, they go through and pick the best voice possible for their characters.

I remember Brad Bird saying that companies would eventually shoot themselves in the foot making an overabundance of c.g. movies, and I think it's happening about now.

Maybe only the companies that are making GOOD movies will still be around?

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I really really hope that this movie does extremely well, so that studios will begin making 2d animation again. Otherwise, if it fails, everyone will be all like "See?? 2d doesn't work!!"... a "city on a hill" if you like.

I am also looking forward to Ponyo on the Cliff by the Sea with great anticipation.

Also, I thought Kung Fu Panda was a surprisingly decent CGI film but had it been done in quality 2d animation it could have been so amazing.

I think I'm going to go watch All Dogs Go To Heaven now...

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This thread just increased my to-watch list of movies by nearly a dozen, prompting imdb-ing and further additions. Even though Disney-ish movies (simple themes, overcoming of adversity, emphasis on morals, heartwarming stories, etc) are my favorite genre, I've somehow largely neglected them for the past few years. So thanks for this!

Yes, All Dogs! And since it hasn't been mentioned, if you like that sort of movie then go watch The Brave Little Toaster. That's going way back in time I know, but it has darker bits (that scared the pants off of me as a kid) like have been mentioned in other movies (like All Dogs) plus a nice little adventure/reunion story. And it has Jon Lovitz as the radio!

I wasn't impressed by the trailer of that newest Disney flick, but I hope the film proves wrong my initial estimations. Regardless, hooray animation!

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My favorite part of The Brave Little Toaster is the part in the junkyard when all the cars sing

Also I think Pom Poko (by Studio Ghibli so you can't go wrong) might be the best animated film I've ever seen, not only is it an astoundingly good movie but it takes advantage of the animated medium in such a more extensive and integral way than any other cartoon I can think of

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Studio Ghibli

Well that's a dozen more right there. I found Spirited and Mononoke on imdb's top 250 and watched (and thoroughly enjoyed) them recently, but the uneducated-on-Japanime me didn't realize they were from the same studio or that there was a studio with such a solid track record (three more on the top 250 plus a bunch more highly-rated films).

I have yet to capitalize on this newly acquired knowledge, but I'm pretty sure this thread just made my next couple months.

EDIT: I just realized that at least a handful of Studio Ghibli's works are on Veoh. So FYI: you all can watch some/most/all of their films for free. [Aside: I can't get the web player to work, but I can still use their software to download the movies and that's just as good for me.]

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You know what's weird, when I was a kid I loved The Brave Little Toaster...

But I watched it again a couple months ago for the first time since I was around ten, and man the animation in that movie is not stellar. It's okay, but for some reason I remembered it being a lot better, a WHOLE lot better.

That doesn't make the movie itself bad though, that was and still is one of the weirdest animated films ever, and nothing beats:

CRAZY ERNIE'S AMAZING EMPORIUM OF TOTAL BARGAIN MADNESS!!!!!!

Also yeah, I miss the hell out of Don Bluth... Talk about quality. The first thing I saw from him was actually his Disney work on "The Small One".

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