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Spiderman doesn't make sense any more.


Wacky
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I tried reading stuff after the Brand new Day storyline and to be frank, it doesn't really work for me. There could have been so much stuff concerning how Peter can't hide behind his secret persona anymore because EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT IT IS, and perhaps turn Aunt May into something more than a damsel in distress. But the people at Marvel seem only to be able to write wangst, so there it is. And that lovely extra bit of sadism towards women by making MJ remember that she was married to Peter. Yeah. Great. Fuck you, Marvel. Why don't you just stuff her into a fridge too?

It's rather sad that my borderline-effeminate fangirly crush on Spiderman Loves Mary Jane is the only reason I buy ANY spidey comic nowadays. It's just as wangsty as everything else, but at least that's expected from a 14-5 year old girl.

This is doing my head in and even Shulkie isn't a lawyer any more. Thank god they cancelled the series, but really, that's like removing the entire reason why she was awesome- She was smart, wasn't just the Hulk, and had a lawyer's snark and ability to see beyond the fourth wall.

I'm just going to buy Terry Dodson Black Cat issues and SMLMJ from now on. Marvel, you are dead to me.

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Marvel was dead to me a long time ago. Well, not really, I just tend to prefer DC, specifically the Vertigo line but I'll venture into the superhero stuff every now and then ["Harley and Ivy" was fantastic]. I also remember liking Rex Mundi [from Image] but I need to really catch up on that. I think I stopped reading it 'cause they kept getting new artists. One would go rogue or get fired or something and they ended up with a really bad one.

Also lol@spiderman not making sense. Dude he got bit by a spider and suddenly shoots sticky shit out of his wrists.

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But the people at Marvel seem only to be able to write wangst, so there it is.

The whole point of Spider-Man from the day he was created was to be an angsty character. He was angsty before the word really even came into popularity. Superheroes prior to him were basically all "perfect" in some way, but with Spider-Man came a generation of heroes with definite imperfections. Peter Parker has super strength, but can't get a date, and gets picked on at school. Etc. That's what made him such a great character.

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He's always been silly. One of his key personality traits is the ability to make horrible punny comments about nearly ANY situation. Maybe now you're just taking him less seriously. I had a similar revelation about comics a little while back. You just gotta look for the "good stuff".

The best spiderman stuff I've seen recently is his "Ultimate" incarnation. It's a restart, which I'm sure you're sick of by now, but it was pretty good by my standards.

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The whole point of Spider-Man from the day he was created was to be an angsty character. He was angsty before the word really even came into popularity. Superheroes prior to him were basically all "perfect" in some way, but with Spider-Man came a generation of heroes with definite imperfections. Peter Parker has super strength, but can't get a date, and gets picked on at school. Etc. That's what made him such a great character.

Characters grow and change if their creators want them to be decent characters. When Peter managed to, you know, grow up and find something in himself that made him more than the geeky loser he was at the beginning, that's character growth, and that's what makes good comics and good literature. Watchmen, for example- see Dan Dreiberg realize that normal people have dreams, that Dr Manhattan loses all interest in humanity, that Ozymandias has actually gone unhinged because no one has adored him for years- and you had what Peter had just before his entire backstory got nuked. I mean, I didn't really care that MJ was his wife, but the mere fact that Peter managed to learn, over 20 years, how to talk to a girl and grow to love her, meant that he was a character who grew and let you appreciate him. To pick another Spidey Villian- Kingpin. If you didn't know that Kingpin would do ANYTHING for his wife, and truly loved her, you wouldn't find it interesting that he's such a complete dick. If Doctor Doom was simply some asshole in a metal suit, there wouldn't be the actually really interesting character analysis that Doom is simply a man who thinks he is never wrong. Writers really tried to fuck with him to make him pure evil, but that's not why he's so popular- he's so popular BECAUSE he's a multifaceted character who keeps his word and treats people with the respect they deserve. You don't EXPECT that from villains, so when you see it, it's good. I'd pick Doom over Darkseid any day.

In the same vein, I really liked the Supergirl run when Guedes was drawing her. Something as simple as making her cape too long, and then having her drape it around her legs when she sits down as a sign of modesty, says so much about her personality (read: she's a teenager, and a pretty realistic one in her mannerisms) that you can see it far more than the constant Marvel Wangst you get from everyone. I could pick more about the character from the way Guedes draws Supergirl than I could about all the X Men spouting streams of consciousness at once. Deadpool is awesome because I know what he's thinking from what he does, not what he says he does or thinks. The Green Lanterns are all different (And I loved that John Stewart is an architect) that you can relate to each one differently (hint: Hal Jordan is a dick.)

Incidentally, this is why I like SMLMJ.

I thought Civil War was going to be absolutely AWESOME. And then it turned into a shitfight.

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Wacky if you're looking for GOOD Spider-man stuff to read, check out Ultimate Spider-man. It takes Peter back to his roots and sort of streamlines years and years of Spider-man continuity. It also helps that only one writer has been on the title for something like 11-12 years; it's incredibly consistent. Once it relaunches with the upcoming Volume 2 (after all this ridiculously stupid ULTIMATUM crap), it will probably be the first and only Marvel book I actually pick up every month, and this is coming from a die-hard DC fan.

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This is going to sound very silly, but after Spiderman 3, I've had no desire to read any Spiderman books at all. I know, that sounds incredibly stupid. I've only read a few past books like Spiderman:Blue, House of M, and Civil War, but the actual comic books I'd rather not get deep with.

Though I will admit, I did like Humberto Ramos' run on drawing Spiderman, I love his art style.

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Characters grow and change if their creators want them to be decent characters.

Well, when you have a dozen people writing it on a deadline, it's hard to take seriously either way. I don't consider serialized comics to be good literature, generally speaking, so I think your expectations might be set too high. Stuff like Watchmen is great, as well as limited mangas like Nausicaa, because they had one (or maybe two) writers and a definite beginning and end.

When you're writing the same character for decades upon decades, and you literally can't just end the story, some BS is going to start happening at some point or another to continue to artificially lengthen things.

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Also lol@spiderman not making sense. Dude he got bit by a spider and suddenly shoots sticky shit out of his wrists.

overcoat cuts right to the heart of the issue. spidey can't even hack his wrists open because his web will seal it shut! ultimate angst!

edit: aw, don't pick on short-bus. you're only picking on him because you've been reading comic books since you were five, so people who don't trigger your idiot filter.

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Hehe, I used to read a lot of Marvel comics that were translated and published here in Finland in the beginning of '90s. My "this all going to hell" period was when X-Men went all Darker and Edgier, characters started to get killed off one by one (except.. not really!) which for me coincided with Jim Lee illustrating, which for me was like all pin-ups and no action.. that was what, 17 years ago? Good grief I feel old. :] (Also.. I was nine when reading those?)

Anyway, when you consider how the timeline stretches in a series that just keeps going and going and you can't really let the characters age and all that shit (pretty much what zircon said), there's bound to be a moment when you feel that it's ruined. Yeah, it makes no sense as a linear story and stuff. Reading Wikipedia biographies of Marvel characters is quite ridiculous. I'd link a tvtropes page here if I could remember the name of the trope. :> I think DC presses a universal reset button every now and the to start over, and Marvel has some sort of side-universe alternate stories going since I've stopped reading..

I just started re-reading Watchmen. Yay!

--Eino

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Marvel has the "flexible" timeline, and DC (from what I know) jumbles things up every now and then with their Crisis events. AFAIK the only ongoing comic book character that ages in real-time would be Judge Dredd. The comic started some time in the 70's and he's well over 60 years old now I think.

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Wacky if you're looking for GOOD Spider-man stuff to read, check out Ultimate Spider-man. It takes Peter back to his roots and sort of streamlines years and years of Spider-man continuity. It also helps that only one writer has been on the title for something like 11-12 years; it's incredibly consistent. Once it relaunches with the upcoming Volume 2 (after all this ridiculously stupid ULTIMATUM crap), it will probably be the first and only Marvel book I actually pick up every month, and this is coming from a die-hard DC fan.

Brian Michael Bendis, despite some questionable stories, is probably the best thing to happen to marvel in the last 20 years. I'd heard he wasn't going to continue doing Ultimate Spidy, but I could be wrong. Guess I'll go check and update everyone. I know he's the big man at marvel right now, what with him being in charge of the Avengers (and that big "Dark Avengers" event that's supposed to be WAY better than secret invasion was). Oh! And yes, after review, Bendis is going to keep on writing Ultimate Spiderman. It was his artist that was leaving after 110 issues together. Whee!

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