new game, new music, no experience

[pcmus1c]

Hello everyone. I am a musician and have recently been given the task of creating music for a game currently in development. Unfortunately I have very little experience with music technology, and have about six months to figure it out. I am running a PowerBook G4 with 1GB RAM, and have been using mainly Logic 8 Express, then Audacity, GarageBand (don't laugh...), and Reason. I'm also using an M-Audio Keystudio Midi Keyboard. I am open to any and all advice as this is a lot to learn in a short amount of time. Any help you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-pcmus1c

[Asaudan]

Is it the composing or the sound engineering that you need help with? Are you just looking for links to tutorials and recommended reading?

[pcmus1c]

Just the engineering, I have written out a few ideas in Sibelius, now I just need to make them sound good

[Meteo Xavier]

I better question that, while condescending, would give us better insight to better help you is how a musician with little, if any, music technology skills got hired to do a video game soundtrack.

[Rozovian]

I suggest you read up on processing and mixing, listen to music (old vgm, new vgm, non-vgm...) a lot and figure out how ppl make their stuff sound a certain way.

I also suggest you develop a good idea for the sound the game should have, and keep in contact with the rest of the ppl making the game, making sure your music, both writing and sound, fit the mood and pace of the game. With music, you can turn an empty corridor into a haunting experience, you can make it a safe place and a break from the action, you can make it a place for a moment to reflect on the story of the game... And you can turn a generic battle into something grand, exciting, emotional, morally ambiguous... Don't limit yourself to the sound of half a dozen instruments, but make sure that the dozens of sounds you use fit together.

Also, work together with the ppl making the graphics and the level designers so graphics, level layout and music complement each other.

Short version: Read, listen, compare, analyze, and figure things out early in the process.

[Meteo Xavier]

Course, you could hire someone to take care of the engineering for you. It is damn near impossible to engineer and process sound very well without good equipment and quite a bit of know-how. If you are limited with music technology, you're better off hiring someone to do it for you.

[pcmus1c]

Honestly, it came as a surprise to me as well, but instead of wondering how I got the job, I'm focusing more on how I'm going to get the job done.

[Meteo Xavier]

And how are you going to get that job done? What instrument, knowledge, etc do you have? How long have you been playing? Have you written music before and what kind?

None of this is supposed to tear you down. Lord knows I'm in no position to judge the music of others, but getting more specific could quickly help satisfy a more specific series of solutions to help you get the job done.

[Rozovian]

Unless this is a big-budget title (and I somehow doubt that) you should be fine with LE8 or Reason, even GB's got the goods to make decent vgm. Just gotta learn to use it right. You should ahve a run through our Guides&Tutorials forum, and any specific technical questions relating can be asked in the ReMixing forum.

I wish you luck.

[Ronyn]

I think it'd be really important to know exactly what type of music you are looking to make. There's typically three different ways to go about it:

Recorded: Using live recording techniques and mics, and mixing the source down into something professional.

Sample-based: Triggering prerecorded samples through MIDI (which is what I'm guessing you want because you mentioned your keyboard). Trick with this is, you need samples, not just a midi keyboard and Sibelius. I would also say looped based music falls in this category, I think garage band is looped based.

Middleware/tools based: I don't know a lot about this type, but essentially it's the same process for making chiptunes and old nintendo style music, which I think nintendo actually still uses. It usually requires third party development tools so the developer can integrate the programming and designed audio directly into their game.

It might be good to know about the genre, scope, platform, etc. of your game. Perhaps knowing what other type of game you're trying to emulate as well. I'm trying to market myself as a game music professional these days. I don't know everything, but I've done music for a game or two. Feel free to catch me on MSN jamesbgeorge@gmail.com if you want to ask any direct question or could use collab help.

[Rozovian]

If you need any help with Logic or GB, feel free to contact me. Got my msn and aim on my profile (click my name).

[beckett007]

I hate to sound condescending as well... but.. um... yeah, like Meteo I wonder how the hell you even managed to score this gig without any experience, much less no experience with digital music production.

So what systems will this be released on? Are you using someones proprietary audio engine or something pre-existing like Wwise? Or, is this just a Mod or XNA game?

You're not going to like the advice I have to give, but I'm fairly seasoned so here goes. Honestly, you're gonna have to find someone to collaborate with in order to do this correctly and not make a fool out of yourself... there's no way you can possibly learn the ins and outs of digital music composition, proper mastering, much less the techniques for making a proper dynamic score (which all next gen games have and require these days) in a matter of 6 months. Impossible. I've been a composer / sound designer in this biz for the better part of 4 years and it's taken me 6 years to learn enough about digital music production to consider myself somewhat marketable as a freelancer in this industry. Ugh, I'm sorry... but this just frustrates the hell out of me that someone with no experience can find such a job.... regardless, here's some tidbits off the top of my head.

Garage band ain't gonna cut it. In order to be competitive you'll need to at least upgrade to East West Quantum Leap Orchestra Silver, or even better, Gold. Thats a VST plugin and requires a host sequencer such as Sonar 8 to run in. From there, you'll need to learn midi programming and such (if you don't already know that), and find a good set of mastering tools to make it sound somewhat pro. I would suggest Wizoo Verb as a cost effective convolution reverb solution and Izotope for a decently priced all in one EQ package. Depending on the score you're doing you might also look into Stylus RMX for beats (it's just loops so it's easy to use and sequence), and Atmosphere for your synth work. Speaking of which, would you mind letting all of us know how much you're willing to spend to prepare? Some of these VSTs can get a bit pricey.

Without knowing the vibe of the game and where you want to take the score.. none of us will be able to really help suggest VSTs and techniques to you. Give us some details... at least all the details you can without breaking the NDA. Good luck!

Rich

[Rozovian]

I hate to sound condescending as well... but.. um... yeah, like Meteo I wonder how the hell you even managed to score this gig without any experience, much less no experience with digital music production.

...there's no way you can possibly learn the ins and outs of digital music composition, proper mastering, much less the techniques for making a proper dynamic score (which all next gen games have and require these days) in a matter of 6 months. Impossible. I've been a composer / sound designer in this biz for the better part of 4 years and it's taken me 6 years to learn enough about digital music production to consider myself somewhat marketable as a freelancer in this industry. Ugh, I'm sorry... but this just frustrates the hell out of me that someone with no experience can find such a job.... regardless, here's some tidbits off the top of my head.

...Garage band ain't gonna cut it. In order to be competitive you'll need to at least upgrade to East West Quantum Leap Orchestra Silver, or even better, Gold. Thats a VST plugin and requires a host sequencer such as Sonar 8 to run in.

lol, what size of game do you think he's on? Correct me if I'm wrong, pcmus, but the impression I get from what I've read of your posts is that you're on some game some friend of yours is making, got the task because some friend heard some song you've made.

[Gario]

...and have about six months to figure it out.

I'm going to assume that Rozo has a good idea on the scope of your project (it wouldn't make sense for you to be hired commercially without a portfolio), so why do you have this time constraint? If it's something your friend is forcing you to do then tell him your predicament and have him give you the time you need to learn the programs at least a little bit before you dive into making music for him. It seems unethical, but if it was your friend he shouldn't have expected you to make the music without the proper experience in six months in the first place.

If it's freeware online or something else that doesn't give you that option then look for someone who is willing to engineer it for you and learn. If you couldn't do the mastering process the first time, fine. Take your time and learn the process so you'll be more ready when the opportunity arises again.

[anosou]

I hate to sound condescending as well... but.. um... yeah, like Meteo I wonder how the hell you even managed to score this gig without any experience, much less no experience with digital music production.

So what systems will this be released on? Are you using someones proprietary audio engine or something pre-existing like Wwise? Or, is this just a Mod or XNA game?

You're not going to like the advice I have to give, but I'm fairly seasoned so here goes. Honestly, you're gonna have to find someone to collaborate with in order to do this correctly and not make a fool out of yourself... there's no way you can possibly learn the ins and outs of digital music composition, proper mastering, much less the techniques for making a proper dynamic score (which all next gen games have and require these days) in a matter of 6 months. Impossible. I've been a composer / sound designer in this biz for the better part of 4 years and it's taken me 6 years to learn enough about digital music production to consider myself somewhat marketable as a freelancer in this industry. Ugh, I'm sorry... but this just frustrates the hell out of me that someone with no experience can find such a job.... regardless, here's some tidbits off the top of my head.

Garage band ain't gonna cut it. In order to be competitive you'll need to at least upgrade to East West Quantum Leap Orchestra Silver, or even better, Gold. Thats a VST plugin and requires a host sequencer such as Sonar 8 to run in. From there, you'll need to learn midi programming and such (if you don't already know that), and find a good set of mastering tools to make it sound somewhat pro. I would suggest Wizoo Verb as a cost effective convolution reverb solution and Izotope for a decently priced all in one EQ package. Depending on the score you're doing you might also look into Stylus RMX for beats (it's just loops so it's easy to use and sequence), and Atmosphere for your synth work. Speaking of which, would you mind letting all of us know how much you're willing to spend to prepare? Some of these VSTs can get a bit pricey.

Without knowing the vibe of the game and where you want to take the score.. none of us will be able to really help suggest VSTs and techniques to you. Give us some details... at least all the details you can without breaking the NDA. Good luck!

Rich

It seems to me you're blowing things out of proportion. No one, especially not this guy, NEEDS Stylus RMX, Atmosphere and EWQL plug-ins to make music. He hasn't even mentioned what style, what kind of game and what "level" the game is on. You're basically only giving what's needed for a typical western modern close-to-AAA production, putting out any enthusiasm and hope this guy has because I'm pretty sure that's not the type of game he's doing. I also like how you say "Garage band ain't gonna cut it" even though he mentioned Logic Express 8, Sibelius and Reason which are respectable apps (Sibelius only for composing obviously) that could easily produce results that are acceptable for most smaller-scale games.

Also, dynamic score? next-gen game? find "such a job"? Seriously?

However, original poster, you should be a bit more specific when asking for help or it's really hard for anyone and everyone to give you any help. Posting examples we can give feedback on, details on the projects or even your background would help immensly.

[Arcana]

I love how "given the task of" suddenly equates, "was hired to". Nowhere does the original poster imply that he's being paid. Not that that isn't possible, but it's funny how there's so much overreaction here.

[prophetik music]

No one, especially not this guy, NEEDS Stylus RMX, Atmosphere and EWQL plug-ins to make music.

unless you're writing orchestrated arrangements for ocr, where they tell you to just buy vienna or find someone with it.

i mean no offense, but like the others before me, i have no idea how you scored this gig. it pisses me off when i hear about game devs just handing the audio reins to someone who has no experience. they wouldn't do that for a programming job. it particularly pisses me off when they hand it to someone who doesn't know how to do their own research, even. if they handed a big job to an artist who only knew how to hand-draw stuff and didn't know something like photoshop, they'd be expected to learn that as part of the job.

that all said, feel free to contact me via pm or aim if you have questions about something specific. i've got a lot of experience mixing on a budget, so i can help you out if you're looking for something.

[anosou]

unless you're writing orchestrated arrangements for ocr, where they tell you to just buy vienna or find someone with it.

Oooh burn.

Though I have guidelines and standards to follow as a judge, there are no guidelines and standards for this since he hasn't specified what he's doing. All he did was ask for some help and some of you bash him like he's an idiot. Did you start with the best equipment? Is your mixing top notch? You don't even know his musical ability, yet you judge him, basically assuming he has no experience (he said he had little experience in producing, we know nothing about his musical background and his software is decent.)

Seriously, to bash someone making a simple request for help so HE CAN IMPROVE for something HE REALIZES he might not be the best at is respectless, especially from people themselves in the same line of work who I bet would've killed for an opportunity like this when they had the same ammount of experience. It makes me sad.

[Arcana]

Seriously, to bash someone making a simple request for help so HE CAN IMPROVE for something HE REALIZES he might not be the best at is respectless, especially from people themselves in the same line of work who I bet would've killed for an opportunity like this when they had the same ammount of experience. It makes me sad.

This.

If I was the OP asking for help and got some of the responses I see here, I know I wouldn't come back.

[DrumUltimA]

pcmus1c, can you post some midis of your ideas so far?

[Meteo Xavier]

Oooh burn.

Though I have guidelines and standards to follow as a judge, there are no guidelines and standards for this since he hasn't specified what he's doing. All he did was ask for some help and some of you bash him like he's an idiot. Did you start with the best equipment? Is your mixing top notch? You don't even know his musical ability, yet you judge him, basically assuming he has no experience (he said he had little experience in producing, we know nothing about his musical background and his software is decent.)

Seriously, to bash someone making a simple request for help so HE CAN IMPROVE for something HE REALIZES he might not be the best at is respectless, especially from people themselves in the same line of work who I bet would've killed for an opportunity like this when they had the same ammount of experience. It makes me sad.

I respect that, but its not a simple request when someone with very limited music technology skills is asking for help on how to do a video game soundtrack, almost the very definition of electronic music technology (if not that, then the poster child).

Since we don't know anything about what his skill level is, the project required, or much of anything really, I don't think its respectless to ask how he got the job at all because we don't even know what kind of skill there is to respect. I myself am getting acid flashbacks to when I started out in music. God help us all.....

I guess its somewhat hypocritical for me to criticize considering how often I need help with EVERYTHING all the time, but I had to wait years before someone could just lay it out straight for me and give me an idea of what video game music is about. We're telling it to this guy like it is and hopefully saving him a bunch of time from creating false positives.

Where the hell did he go, btw?

[anosou]

I respect that, but its not a simple request when someone with very limited music technology skills is asking for help on how to do a video game soundtrack, almost the very definition of electronic music technology (if not that, then the poster child).

Since we don't know anything about what his skill level is, the project required, or much of anything really, I don't think its respectless to ask how he got the job at all because we don't even know what kind of skill there is to respect. I myself am getting acid flashbacks to when I started out in music. God help us all.....

I guess its somewhat hypocritical for me to criticize considering how often I need help with EVERYTHING all the time, but I had to wait years before someone could just lay it out straight for me and give me an idea of what video game music is about. We're telling it to this guy like it is and hopefully saving him a bunch of time from creating false positives.

Where the hell did he go, btw?

I asked about details myself, it's crucial to getting feedback. That's not even what I was upset about, I was upset about comments like "I wonder how the hell you even managed to score this gig" and "it pisses me off when i hear about game devs just handing the audio reins to someone who has no experience." because it's not constructive, it's not asking for more details, it's just rude and disrespectful.

You never said it like that, nor have I said that you did so we're cool

[Strike911]

Man, this place is getting firey.

[Ronyn]

I think we're all pissing in the wind at this point.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

In an attempt to veer this thread back on track...

Yo, pcmus1c. I don't know how the hell you.... Just kidding. Hahaha.

Seriously, I think you could get a whole world of advice if you posted a midi or even an MP3 of something you're writing for this game. We promise not to steal it. But we can give you really detailed feedback that way.

In hopes that you won't give up on this community, let me point out something positive: You've gotten the attention of Rozovian and Another Soundscape, two ace evaluators. I'm SURE they'd have some useful stuff to say if you came back and posted something for us to hear.

"Go for the gold!"