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Night10194
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In that topic one girl mentioned that Walter's ranting about the red devil coming to kill him meant that Walter was seeing pyramid head. She finished by saying "So obvious it hurts."

Lost Memories explicitly states that Walter did not see Pyramid Head. Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but in the Sullivan Victim Files we later learn that Jimmy Stone had the nickname "Red Devil". He also had a right-hand man known as George Rosten, a man who had a hand in raising Walter and allowing Valtiel to enter his consciousness. It wouldn't be a stretch to assume that Jimmy Stone also had a hand in this, being that George and he were close working partners.

So if what the Lost Memories says is true, and Walter did not see PH but bothers to mention that the "Red Devil" is coming to kill him and that "he made me do it!", and we only know of Jimmy Stone being known as the "Red Devil", wouldn't it be logical to conclude that the "red devil" Walter was ranting about was Jimmy Stone?

The girl only replied that she bad read "billions of theories regarding the Red Devil being Pyramid Head and that Jimmy Stone and George Rosten were actually the two Pyramid Heads at the end of SH2.[sic]"

So while I certainly find it amusing that the leaders of two religious sects would take such an interest in old James Sunderland, I'm upset that she only put forth opposing theories, not bothering to attempt to correct my claims. And I know this would be another point to answer, but by the time of Silent Hill 2 Billy and Miriam Loccaine had already been killed. James had read about their death and Sullivan's suicide. Both George and Jimmy died long before Walter killed those twins. How could they be there with James if they were already dead?

Granted, Jimmy Stone's sect apparently puts him in role of being an executioner, being that they follow Valtiel and all...so her theory might work if their spirits were sent to judge James. But that just sounds like inventing reasons as opposed to looking at the facts (which are admittedly lacking if one wants to think both Jimmy and George took the form of Pyramid Heads to fight James).

This has a LOT of spoilers, from SH1-4...

Okay, I had this discussion with someone a long time ago. This is basically what we worked it up to, an incomplete theory, that almost makes sense so far:

Walter Sullivan was raised in the Wish House, around the same time that Alessa was. However, being that he was an orphan, he did not have the privelages that Alessa had, he was obviously abused. But I think he was a "special" child, not quite as "special" as Alessa, but that he was special enough to be a pawn of the cult, much like Claudia was at a later date. Claudia was special as well, obviously, from her (debated) ability to bring about the scenario in SH3. I think it was Claudia that was doing most of the work in SH3, and she was so caught up in the cult, in wanting Paradise, in Alessa's role, that she uh..."put" the god into Heather's womb, and everything Heather sees, is both Claudia's paradise, and a mix of her own, awakening from her lost memories... Anyway, back to SH4...When Walter was young, there was more than one sect at that time. At that time, Dahlia was obsessed in somehow bringing about "paradise", and she was trying to figure out how to birth god...In SH1, we see the conversation between Alessa and Dahlia, when Dahlia realizes that she can use Alessa for her purposes, and so Alessa, who was supposed to become a priestess, instead becomes "impregnated", and then burned, on the brink of death, and she splits in two...Into Cheryl, who I think contains the "real" Alessa's soul, and then leaves "Alessa" in the Alc hospital basement. who I think is actually just her body, containing the soul of the "god". But before all of this happened, Dahlia was looking for a way to birth god. She then met a REALLY young Walter, realized that he had potential to be manipulated, and told him about his "mother" in room 302...This caused Walter to become obsessed, and planted the seed for the events in SH4...And yet...I am sure she quickly forgot about it, or never got around to doing anything with it, and set her sights on her daughter...then the SH1 scenario happens, she fails, and dies, and cult is run by the likes of Jimmy Stone, and later, Vincent and Claudia...Anyway, the point is, Dahlia ultimately caused Walter to seek out "his mother", as she was the head of the Holy Mother sect. But Walter, later in life, upon growing up (and after the events of SH1) from his association with Jimmy Stone, was part of the Valtiel sect. I think that where the Holy Mother sect worships a "female" entity to birth god, the Valtiel sect worships Valtiel, the caretaker who turns the wheels between reality, etc...But I think that Valtiel's sect may also represent the "male's" role in the cult, as an impregnator, executioner, etc. so to speak. And I ALSO think that Walter Sullivan's being tormented by the "red devil" is something VERY similar to what happened to Alessa, having a "god" within her womb...To birth god, they have to do certain things, but they go about it differently, because of their gender.

Walter has to sacrifice victims, he had to also kill himself after the "ten hearts". But he was caught before he could do so...Instead, he ends up in a jail cell after killing the Locaine children. I think that here, he starts being tormented by a guilty conscience...And may not want to finish the ritual. In jail, he comments that he is being tormented by the "Red Devil"...Maybe Walter, the good part of him at this point, is being convinced to kill himself so that the ritual can continue, he's fighting a battle of the mind...MUCH like James did... similarly being chased around, maybe even by his "own" demons, heck, maybe even by beings similar to that of Pyamid Head, as PH is a Valtiel sect character by association...

Anyway maybe the "real" Walter loses this battle, maybe he was sitting in jail the entire time, experiencing a personal hell...And he loses, and kills himself (actually just splits his soul in two - much like what happened to Alessa and Cheryl, except this was bad for Walter, because the "dead" body would be the good Walter's vessel, and the free roaming body would be Valtiel's, which is the opposite of what happened with Alessa and Cheryl)

After the fake death, and the split, Valtiel/Possessed Walter went on with the rest of the ritual. Poor Walter Sullivan gives in, and stabs himself in the neck with a spoon. Everyone always wonders why we see Walter Sullivan's grave in SH2, along with Miriam K, Eddie's, James', and Angelas...Well, Walter's time in jail may explain why in SH2, we hear about Walter's crime, and then we see Walter's grave at the end of the labyrinth - we all know that Eddie, Angela ((most likely)) and James, if you get the In Water ending, are dead, in Silent Hill - this means they lost the battle with themselves - this explains the graves - and maybe Walter's grave too.

Anyway, Valtiel gets what he wants and as evil Walter - the Walter that chases you around with a gun later in SH4. He has gotten himself out of a jam because he has the ability to fake his death, so that he can get on with the ritual, and get out of a jail cell, because since he is split, he cannot really die until both halves are together.

So even though this confuses me somewhat, maybe the "dead" body that was dug up is just a vessel, similar to what happened to a young Alessa when her mother burned her. Alessa wanted to die, but instead, she was split. After the police think Walter is dead, Valtiel/Walter (the other half) is trapsing around, waiting for the opportunity to finish the 21 Sacraments. When the coast is clear, Walter/Valtiel digs up his own body, carries it to The Room, and then "merges" back with himself, so he can THEN kill himself for REAL, as the 11th victim, and do the assumption, which allows him to kill the rest of his victims much easier, and also, is just what the cult believes, so Walter HAS to do it that way. The way he kills his victims from here on, he "sucks" them into his world through holes, which is related to his psyche, and then offs them there, where they become ghosts, trapped forever there. Whether or not they are sleeping, etc...

Anyway, when I said that Valtiel represented the male way to go about birthing a god, I meant that he has to impregnate someone. Somehow, Dahlia impregnated her daughter with a god...But what Walter is trying to do has a twist. He wants the god, the paradise, to be the Room. He is channeling all of the energy from his sacrifices to the Room, which is the "womb" of the mother. This is why we see the umbilical cord looking monster everywhere, the "Greedy Worm"...(I'm not going into that too much right now though, that's a whole nother discussion) But the difference between the Paradise of Walter, and the Paradise of everyone else seems to be that Walter yearns to go "back" into a cult/paradise version of his "mother's" womb, as opposed to spreading "paradise" to others.

At this point, I'm a bit too tired to go into the rest, because I haven't figured it all out yet, but it involves Eileen being the "mother" victim in the ritual, sacrificing herself...I still haven't figured out this part of it, but I think that Eileen's role may be similar to Alessa's or Walter's, and that she may be impregnated, like Alessa, or just possessed, much like Walter (from Jimmy Stone's work) and Walter needs her to sacrifice herself, as he did himself, so that the Room will awaken, in his paradise.

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Okay, after playing Silent Hill 2, 3, 4 for a while, I must say that the series is god awful. You do nothing, and nothing happens. It's not scary, it's not fun, and it's boring. All you do is walk around, nothing comes out a jumps at you, the enemy variation is awful, nothing but all show. Just a bunch of blood stained walls and wheelchairs. *hides behind flame shield*

That is all.

Says the guy with the Breath of Fire signature... :roll:

Go through this entire thread I challenge you to find a single post commending this game for it's gameplay. Silent Hill isn't about action or fighting; this isn't Contra. Silent Hill's about playing with lights out, the volume cranked, the brightness on your TV turned way down at 3 in the morning. You gotta be in the mood to get scared. You're not gonna enjoy something like "The Grudge" when all you plan on doing is throwing popcorn at the screen. That's like copping out of Fight Club or Memento halfway through the movie.

I also notice you said you played them all, but didn't finish any of them. You gotta finish it you silly bastard. I recommend finishing 2 first, or looking for a copy of 1. But that's just me.

Edit: Fuck, I just broke the comma key on my keyboard.

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I am quite open minded about video games, trust me. I've been playing them since I was 3 years old, and I'm almost 18 now. I'm all up for story, which is the main reason why I like Breath of Fire III so much.

However, the story of SH3 went straight to hell when it was shown that Claudia is yet another whiny villian who had a bad childhood and has to ruin the world for everyone just because of it. I don't like my villians whiny and having no coping skills.

As for the scares, I understand the game isn't action based, but the scares were just plain lame. They were just THERE. They didn't do anything. All you could do was look at them. Nothing jumped out of nowhere and tried to rape you. Everything is pretty much expected halfway through the game. A few cheap scares here and there, that don't even harm your player.

All that walking around looking at a few wheelchairs, dismembered bodies, and blood-stained walls gets old fast.

Either that, or I'm not scared easily.

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I am quite open minded about video games, trust me. I've been playing them since I was 3 years old, and I'm almost 18 now. I'm all up for story, which is the main reason why I like Breath of Fire III so much.

However, the story of SH3 went straight to hell when it was shown that Claudia is yet another whiny villian who had a bad childhood and has to ruin the world for everyone just because of it. I don't like my villians whiny and having no coping skills.

As for the scares, I understand the game isn't action based, but the scares were just plain lame. They were just THERE. They didn't do anything. All you could do was look at them. Nothing jumped out of nowhere and tried to rape you. Everything is pretty much expected halfway through the game. A few cheap scares here and there, that don't even harm your player.

All that walking around looking at a few wheelchairs, dismembered bodies, and blood-stained walls gets old fast.

Either that, or I'm not scared easily.

You're looking for scares in the wrong way. The games aren't Resident Evil clones, which is how you're approaching them.

The Silent Hill games are not meant to give you that sudden horror feeling; they're meant to give you a slowly growing sense of perturbation and creeped out-ness.

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Just to throw a bit of theory out there:

Horror: The physical/visual manifestation of a threatening or disgusting thing.

Terror: the knowledge of a threatening or disgusting thing (A horrifying thing, even), but the fear is based on what one doesn't see rather than what one does see.

Silent Hill is primarily terror-based. The 'bosses' tend to be horrifying, while the gameplay is moreso a mystery/terror game. There is less suspsense than a desire to know 'what the hell happened here?' and when there are enemies involved, it tends to be the fear that there will be enemies, rather than the enemies themselves which are frightening.

While there are plenty of disturbing creatures and images in Silent Hill, it's the atmosphere and buildup which puts so much weight on them. Rather than being mindless zombies, the enemies are representative of something. It's not a gore-fest/blast-your-way-out kind of game. It's a 'solve the mystery, and hope you won't have to use that steel pipe' game. Heck, it's not even a game. It's an experience.

Resident Evil compared to Silent Hill is like comparing Dawn of the Dead with David Lynch's Lost Highway. They're completely different.

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This thread approaches 100 pages...

The movie approaches release...

It is appropriate to give a huge 'thank you' to Silent Hill fandom. You are one of the most intelligent fanbases for any medium, game or otherwise. This unique work has attracted a dedicated bunch!

It occured to me last night that I've been here from the beginning. In Spring 1999 I rented Silent Hill 1, expecting it to be a second rate RE knockoff. I remember beating it, and distinctly thinking "wow, that was different". I promptly beat it 4 other times, getting all the endings, before returning it.

I didn't know just how different and loved it was until the sequels. Now Silent Hill is synonymous with so many things.... experimental white noise soundtracks, mysterious bass guitar, horror references, maturity, Melissa Williamson, Jacob's Ladder, Akira Yamaoka, fog, abandoned urban areas, Gans, Hip Hop beats, kooky townspeople, cults, radio static, lead pipes, Heather, Harry, James, Henry, Walter Sullivan.... and This Thread, which is the true epicenter of Silent Hill fandom on the net!

I'm glad to have SH 1-4 sitting on my shelf more than anything else in my game collection. It's a real pop culture icon at this point!

It's been great to be a part of this with you all!

/gush

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I am quite open minded about video games, trust me. I've been playing them since I was 3 years old, and I'm almost 18 now. I'm all up for story, which is the main reason why I like Breath of Fire III so much.

However, the story of SH3 went straight to hell when it was shown that Claudia is yet another whiny villian who had a bad childhood and has to ruin the world for everyone just because of it. I don't like my villians whiny and having no coping skills.

No she isn't. She's fucking crazy.

As for the scares, I understand the game isn't action based, but the scares were just plain lame. They were just THERE. They didn't do anything. All you could do was look at them. Nothing jumped out of nowhere and tried to rape you. Everything is pretty much expected halfway through the game. A few cheap scares here and there, that don't even harm your player.

Movies don't do anything to the viewer. Why would the scares in Silent Hill do anything to the player?

All that walking around looking at a few wheelchairs, dismembered bodies, and blood-stained walls gets old fast.

Either that, or I'm not scared easily.

If it's such a simple concept, why didn't you bother finishing the game?

EDIT: Did you even GET to the hospital? That's the best part of the game.

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Clearly, this person was looking for a game which had a much simpler story, and much simpler scares.

"OMG BOO!" scares are worthless.

edit: It's not supposed to be scary. It's supposed to be creepy. If you were tuned into the atmosphere the game creates, you'd be scared that after you turned the game off, one of those closers would eat your face.

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I guess some people just can't appreciate it, can they? "OMGZ BOO!" scares wear so thin, so fast...although, Silent Hill HAS had a few of them; but only the original PS1 game. Remember the body in the locker, or the cat in the school?

I nearly fell over laughing while I was playing SH1 and my best friend's girlfriend was watching, then that part happened. She ran out of the room screaming. ;)

I bet she would't be scared like that ever again though, hehe.

It's a good thing that the other 99% of scares from SH games are the "Get under your skin and NEVER leave" kind.

Oh yeah, another thing here;

Silent Hill: Original Sin

They're remaking Silent Hill 1 for the PSP, and calling it "Silent Hill: Original Sin" It has a release date of October 18th, 2006. I'll be picking that one up for sure :)

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I was outright dissapointed in the story of SH3. The game only seemed to focus on gore. At times I thought the walls in the stages looked more like baked lasagna rather than something that was alive.

Mind you I did like the visuals, but it was just too bright.

I'm probably just so partial to the first two games. Great stories, dark colors, and the ambiance was perfect. But the camera angles sucked.

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Let's hope the money the creators make from that game as a result of the movie's hype will allow them to make Silent Hill 5 Flippin' amazing.

I have a pretty good feeling about SH5, because 3 and 4 were released rather quickly after 2 (a little over a year after 2, and a little less than year after 3 :o from what I can remember.

If anything, the development time and story that is currently underwraps hopefully means Konami is puting their magic to work again. This is overly optimistic though. I liked SH3, to me it was very creepy. The story was fairly hokey. SH4 was, in my opinion, a fountain of good ideas that was not put together very well. Both felt rushed in some ways, while in others they felt solid.

Being that SH4 was released in the U.S. late in 2004, and we're still in quarter 1 of 2006, I'm optimistically speculating that this development time is being put to good use. Plus, as Nulion mentioned, they're remaking SH1 for the PSP. Not quite what I was expecting (hoping for a PS3 remake, comeon Konami!) but then we haven't even gotten SH5 in ours laps yet.

Of course, blah blah blah.

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Sorry for the constant negativity, thought I'd bring up another factor of SH that really bugged me.

The fact that EVERY door is locked and/or broken really drove me insane. It not only got very annoying, but it showed how lazy the developers were too. Damn them and such.

Plus the camera in all the games suck.

HOWEVER, the series does have INCREDIBLE music.

"Your Rain" from SH4 being my personal favorite.

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The locked door idea was "alright" for the first two games, but short of making every room enterable (lol word?), the best way to focus the players attention without overwhelming him or her would be to lock most of the doors.

I'm sure with some thought they could think of a better system though.

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The locked door idea was "alright" for the first two games, but short of making every room enterable (lol word?), the best way to focus the players attention without overwhelming him or her would be to lock most of the doors.

I'm sure with some thought they could think of a better system though.

I'm sorry, I couldn't follow this post at all.

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^ Now that's just plain evil!

Oh, and just in case anybody wanted to know...On the FX channel, Tuesday the 11th at 7:30 pm (EDT) they'll be showing "Don't Say a Word" (With Sean Bean in it), and more than likely with each commercial break, they'll be showing some Silent Hill movie stuff in there.

Also, I hear that BET (Yes, Black Entertainment Television) will be showing a thing on Silent Hill Tuesday the 17th at 7:30 PM EDT.

While on that subject, did anybody see the recent Starz behind the scenes thing for the SH Movie?

If not, here's a high-quality version of the thing..

On The Set: Silent Hill (Friendly warning, it's a 190 MB file)

is it just me or they never mentioned the game in all

that trailer??? 8O

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