Mario 64 - Lethal Lava Land

[Plazmataz]

This mix is the product of two main things: a three-second epiphany I had in a Walmart parking lot, and the four hour mix-fest I embarked upon as soon as I got home. The song is certainly not finished, but I know that I'm finished for the night. I figured I'd post it up and see if I can get any pointers before I resume work.

As far as the song itself goes, the arrangement is heavy on the synths. Perhaps too heavy, but I love them too much to change that. The beat here is actually the first one I've ever put together from the ground that I was actually pleased with, so although there isn't much variation in it (yet), I hope that the marching drumline pounding in the background isn't too obnoxious. The song builds up with some pretty straightforward layers, then repeats the phrase two more times, each time focusing on new and different melodies.

I can hear just by listening to it again that it has some problems, chiefly the fact that the song doesn't really end... at all. I also have a few reverb settings way too high. But here it is anyway.

Enjoy (if you can):

Version 2 (6/10/09):

Version 3 (2/3/10):

Version 4 (4/13/10)

[Game_boy]

I've just joined OCR to tell you how much I love this remix. You've done a great job fitting the source to the new style. Just the change in speed of the opening notes was enough to make me smile.

Just needs to be longer!

[Gario]

I've just joined OCR to tell you how much I love this remix.

Wow, you actually increased the OC population with your post. I'm not sure many people have those bragging rights .

Before commenting, I'd like to add you don't have a source up. While I've played Mario 64 and I sort of know the source, I can't comment on the source usage without a

...

It's got a healthy amount of source, yet the style is quite different. I like how you use the source in this song, personally. It's a little on the conservative side, but you can make more variations later in the song (when you finish it ).

Not finished, I understand - I find the instrument choice to be a bit lacking, though. The samples seem a bit low quality (the melody just sounds like a saw with a bit of sine in it, and the bass/choir/thing sound just like a weak saw combination, itself ). I will add that they mesh well, though - it's just that with different, better samples they could probably mesh better.

Yes, the marching bassline does get a bit annoying - dropping it out here and there would help make it sound fresh when it IS there.

I don't find the song too boring, though. For the pace being as slow as it is, it seems to keep me interested throughout (so far).

[jabond23]

I agree with Gario on this one. Its a nice take on the classic theme, but seems too bland for most of the song. I think maybe adding some strings or a fuller choir, or both, might help bring out this mix a lot more. After the first minute or so, bringing in a full drum set playing even the same beat would really be a nice addition to this followed by the same notes you have in your mix now played by a louder synth or something along lines.

Either way, keep going, it'll take shape with a little more work.

[Plazmataz]

Absolutely. I agree that it really needs more (or at least better) voices taking up slack in the harmony department. And messing with the beat is something that needs to happen, because at the moment, it's a textbook case of "goes nowhere, does nothing." A string section is a great idea, and a cleaner choir to back up and/or replace that mucky bass synth would also work wonders.

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming!

[jabond23]

Not a problem, that's why this forum exists in the first place. I'm looking forward to your next update.

Absolutely. I agree that it really needs more (or at least better) voices taking up slack in the harmony department. And messing with the beat is something that needs to happen, because at the moment, it's a textbook case of "goes nowhere, does nothing." A string section is a great idea, and a cleaner choir to back up and/or replace that mucky bass synth would also work wonders.

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming!

[Therapsid]

So am I. I was listening this WIP several times yesterday and sounds cool.

Just timely modifcations needed.

Keep up the nice work

[Plazmataz]

Okay, I've done a little work, and a new, somewhat revised version has now arrived.

I've made minor adjustments all over the place, the kind of things that you only hear after listening to it five dozen times. Aside from things like that, I've got the third of the three main sections to a point where it's easy on the ears and varies quite nicely from the sections leading up to it. I've kept the basic melody there, but with a new and improved synth instrument that doesn't totally suck. For this one, I threw out the whole bassline and rebuilt it out of a men's choir. Oh, and some Eastern-sounding drums pound along with the rest of the beat here. If this isn't the right direction to be taking this piece, kindly inform me.

There's still no rest-of-the-song or ending yet, although I think I may have something very rough in mind for it. If anyone has any suggestions as to how I should continue from here, I'd be delighted to hear them.

[Gario]

The changes you made are certainly an improvement (especially since you dropped out that pulsing bass for a little while then gave it a triumphant return - it works better that way ).

As for the 'right' direction, that's entirely up to you - I personally like the eastern sound you've added, but if you feel that it's starting to sway towards the source a bit too closely that's understandable, too. As long as the rest of the song can make up for the source similarity with some impressive arranging later I think it'll work just fine .

[jabond23]

Yeah, as for the right direction that's always entirely up to you. We can just suggest things to production wise and maybe some pitch some ideas, but in the end its all up to you my friend.

I like the updates on this, it really sounds better musically. The bass sounds fuller and i'm liking the choir. The lead playing the eastern part is a different touch still for this theme, but that's what makes it stand out. It wouldn't be remix if everything was copied note for note in the mix.

As for suggestions on what to do next i was thinking maybe a fully orchestrated section as a kind of interlude. I'm not sure what you have access to in terms of software and hardware, but as long as your using a fairly decent program you should be able to include some strings, more choir, and an orchestra pad or vst. I'm thinking have the orchestra play the bass and choir notes you have now and then have the strings play the leads. If its done right it might sound pretty awesome, but then again if you wanna stay on a more melodic tone, then maybe just going with a solo of some kind with a nice bass line for :30 seconds or so.

Looking forward to the next update.

[Plazmataz]

I hadn't thought of that at all, Jabond, but I really dig that idea. I'm using GarageBand, actually, and over the past few years I've been buying the expansion kits for it, so I have access to both full orchestra and a number of choirs (you already heard a little of the choir). Anyway, I think an orchestral segment would segue beautifully into a welcomed recapitulation, and then I'm on the home stretch to the ending.

[LuckyXIII]

Very nice. I'd say its beauty lies in its simplicity.

[Plazmataz]

So I came back to this the other day and powered through until the song was finished. I need to sleep on it for a while, but if it still sounds good after that, I might just submit what I have. Any feedback would be awesome, by the way.

So as the song went on, I decided that I needed to bring out the key's major tonic, which I'd been neglecting up until now. So now the song, which stays in E Phrygian dominant throughout, concludes on the major chord.

Also, synth flute solo.

[Plazmataz]

A hundred and eight people took the time to listen, but no one cares to say anything? Does this mean it's terrible, or what? See, now I'm all worried about it.

So is it submission-worthy or not? Need to keep working?

[Galcian]

Hey, another guy here who registered just to comment on your song. I have no idea what the judges would do with this, but I thought you should know that it's going on my iPod. It's a great listen. I listened to the source too and figured out that I would never put the source song on my iPod so for me you definitely turned a nostalgic song into a nostalgic and fun song.

As a listener, there are a couple things that would have made it even a little better for me though. After the flute solo, when the drums came in, I was really getting into it and expected it to become even more energetic but instead it ended. I really think introducing an even more powerful and driving drum riff at the end would've been amazing. Introducing some strings somewhere would've been nice too. I could tells strings would feel at home in this song if you felt like adding them.

To conclude.. I'm no regular, and I'm no composer, but I AM pretty selective with my iPod songs. I enjoyed what you've done here a lot.

[Invader_Quirk]

I thought I commented on this, but I guess I didn't. I really like it. I'm impressed by what you got out of this source. I don't have any real constructive criticism, but I figured I should let you know it's good.

[Ajax]

Wow, this is really good. I really like what you did with the source. It does nothing particularly fancy with the arrangement, which is fine, because the production values are top-notch. I'd say it's actually a marked improvement over the source.

I don't see any problems with submitting it.

[Orpheon]

Take a bit of a break and then come back to listen to it again. If you think this is where this piece should be, then have a crack at submission - you'll find that the submission panel will probably be the most helpful at giving you feedback on your remix.

Personally I feel that the piece is brilliant and tempo perfect, but not hitting that hot red spot. The introduction of the main melody occurs at 1:22, then at 1:50 begins the flute solo, which ends before bringing back the source. By the end of the piece it feels as if it has been slightly segmented into remix components and original components.

In terms of balance, the more interconnected a piece is, the better chance it will have of pleasing the submission panel. See if you cannot do a bit more with that source melody starting at 1:21 - don't be afraid to put your original work in early on, and once the flute solo kicks in, don't leave it hanging - add in any element that could bring it out (possibly more source elements).

[-TeMPeST-]

The only thing I would really recommend is to maybe add some sitar earlier. Whenever I hear this song I get excited about the drum beat and the sitar leads, so if you find a tasteful way to fade in some short sitar licks earlier it'd be awesome

[darkmaster987]

Very nice, you've improvised around the melody and used exactly the right style. In some parts it even reminds me more of Super Mario Galaxy's desert theme.

Only real issue is a wrong note at 2:38

As for improvements... I'd say shorten by about 20 seconds. Right now it feels like a hip-hop track, which would be fine...if it actually was a hip-hop track, and it's not. As it is, it just feels rather empty.

Also as someone else already mentioned, see if you can work the sitar into the first synth melody.

[Monobrow]

My first throught... I am not sure if I like that phased instrument that comes in, it's not that I have anything against phasers, but that it could be a little more subtle.

I think your drums could be a bit more exciting for the source material for the first minute. I understand that you are layering them in as the song progresses, but a highly compressed snare with some fills and rolls could help add a lot of dimension to this song, or something that does that.

The lead is pretty cool when it comes in, but it doesn't stand out enough on these headphones. Maybe try layering it with another synth with a subtle chorus fx on it... Something to give it a little more meat.

Your flutey synth that comes in is pretty cool, but be careful about the resonance it creates, I'd cut it back just a tad on certain notes when it seems to clash.

Also it creates some dissonance with that other pad/synth (like at 1:27) that can be a little distracting. Maybe use some sort of filter FX on that other synth (or choose something less similar to the flute) so they don't clash in resonance so much.

The choir that comes in at 2:34, I honestly don't think this is a good choice for some reason, it just kind of makes the song have this wall of noise that I don't think you need, with such a clean sound coming out then (finally)... Maybe just use the flute there instead?

Overall, I think this song just needs some EQ, compression, and soundscape choices to make it stand out. It's just a little too muddy for my tastes, and there is a slight clash in the lower mids, competition of frequencies that do your mix more harm than good.

Other than that, I really enjoyed a lot of cool things about it... Neat subtle stuff going on, synth wise. The drums are pretty neat when they pick up, just think you don't have to WAIT to make them cool.

[Plazmataz]

I used the phaser to differentiate the synth from the bass. Even if it does sound cheesy, it does its job. I'll play around with some effects and see if there's a better way to do that.

Perhaps the choir was a bad choice... I already have the flutes playing notes in the final recap there, and I used the choir because I wanted to emphasize the major key tonality that dominates the section. I'll try to find a better way to do that than with a classical choir singing 4-part harmony, which honestly does sound a little ridiculous now that I've said that.

Only real issue is a wrong note at 2:38

As for improvements... I'd say shorten by about 20 seconds. Right now it feels like a hip-hop track, which would be fine...if it actually was a hip-hop track, and it's not. As it is, it just feels rather empty.

Also as someone else already mentioned, see if you can work the sitar into the first synth melody.

Trust me, there are no wrong notes. The flute solo is in E Phrygian dominant, so if you're referring to the augmented second jump, that is by no means a mistake.

And the track isn't a hip-hop track, but I suppose the piece overall had some hip-hop influence, now that I look at it. I don't really know what you mean by empty, but I think adding the sitar earlier is a great idea.

[Plazmataz]

Pulled this one out of the mothballs, again. Brought production values up to date, I guess, and remixed a few things around to make it all gel better.

Maybe I would be naive if I considered this ready for submission? Even if it's not, I have put way too much time into this.

[Emunator]

Well, props for tackling a source tune that's a real bitch to work with.

This one's not too bad for what it is, but there's a few issues. I personally feel like your bass and kick drum is way too punchy, I think picking a different sound or working differently with the one you've got would make it sit a lot better in the soundscape.

There's some weird attack/release going on with a few of your instruments, most notably the flute and the most prominent choir patch. It takes away from the realism that you really need if you're going to pull off a convincing flute solo.

That said, you've got a lot of strong points here. Some nice countermelodies were thrown in for good effect, and your soloing is quite nicely written. It adds a lot of Middle Eastern flavor to the song.

I feel like everything finally clicks after the flute solo - the drums are excellent, the bass fits in well, and you've got some great energy. And the transition into that section was wonderful!

Not too bad man, this has got some real potential.

[CC Ricers]

Well, props for tackling a source tune that's a real bitch to work with.

I second that. This is one of the few Mario 64 songs I have trouble hearing it by memory- I know the sounds, hooks and instruments of the source tune, but it doesn't play out in any particular way.

You took the source that sounded flimsy in my head and gave it supports, and it has more structure now. I like the arrangement you have with the leads, they flow well together with the bass and percussion. You give each instrument a good share of time in the mix. The flute section in particular is one of my favorites.

Now for the not-so-good stuff- The bass sounds bland when it's not being accompanied by much. Same with the lead at 0:54. It's not very dull but it still sounds flat and dry.

Maybe it's not so much the textures, but that some of the instruments can use more stereo expansion. I would like to hear more sections like at 2:33. As a mostly ambient piece it would seem very feasible to fill up the soundscape more.