Heroes of Newerth

[RedFusion]

It's so weird to see a thread full of people who've never touched a single game of DotA... (probably because other forums I visit are full of Warcraft III players).

Anyway, after playing DotA for several years since 5.60b, before IceFrog was even around, HoN is simply too much of a pain to have to re-learn DotA again. Stats will ruin the game IMO, and the graphics are okay, but I still prefer my less intensive Warcraft III based DotA.

It's nice to see nubs jumping right into DotA, but I dunno, the game just feels so old to me, whereas everyone here seems caught up in this 'new' fad lol.

I guess I don't really approve of HoN, but meh. Maybe I'll jump into DotA when it's out on SCII.

[Arek the Absolute]

I have been playing dota since mid 04. I still remember going "holy shit" when the map's textures got updated and when the ES, Gambler, and other heroes were added. is that og status enough for you?

I miss the gambler...

It's nice to see nubs jumping right into DotA, but I dunno, the game just feels so old to me, whereas everyone here seems caught up in this 'new' fad lol.

It is really hard not to think of something negative when reading this.

[TehDonut]

RedFusion: Yeah, I think I know how you feel. I've been playing dota for a couple years too...even played competitively at some point, but it kinda got boring. After tensei BEGGED(lolol) me to play HoN with him, I finally tried it out, even though I swore I wouldn't touch the game after basically quitting dota. I find myself in basically a new, yet familiar game, but it's actually quite fun for some strange reason....I'm addicted.

[Arek the Absolute]

I don't see his point at all. What is wrong with "nubs" just starting this game? Just cause I have been playing this forever doesn't mean I harbor any sort of negativity to those that are just starting.

That is really juvenile. Feels like you are saying "no my game my game dont touch" or something.

I welcome new players to Dota or this game. Makes it fun playing with those that enjoy the game.

[TehDonut]

I don't think he meant it in a negative way, but I do know there are a lot of people who don't "approve" of HoN like he does, because they have this sort of history with DotA. Then all of a sudden this new game comes along and now it's all popular with anyone, new people and DotA players alike. But like I said, it's a new game to me and it's fun. Especially with OCR people, cause I can yell at them in game.

[Arek the Absolute]

That is stupid. I have a very long history (like i said mid 04) and I don't have any dislike towards HoN at all. Just cause we played it way before these guys did doesn't mean we have to keep it just to us.

OH NO, NEW GUYS ARE PLAYING THE GAME.

So what

Seriously, very stupid.

[Garian]

donut don't you yell at us enough in tf2 with your "G'day!" and "JARATE!!" and "That funeral won't be open casket!" ??

also yeah i never played dota because i didn't get into wc3, but i am really enjoying HoN. maybe someday i'll even learn the proper way to buy items. it's still fun to get in that one lucky snipe on a guy (usually halt or bahamut)

[Tensei]

This game is definitely the most fun when it's just a group of people I know from IRC, I don't think I'll ever play this with a group of pubs.

[Halt]

This game is definitely the most fun when it's just a group of people I know from IRC, I don't think I'll ever play this with a group of pubs.

No kidding. I mean from that pub game sixto joined. We can already tell pub games suck

[DarkeSword]

Practice Mode, fuck yeah. Will give me time to work on alot of things.

PS. DS you need to play with us sometime.

I'll play but this game is really confusing for me.

[Hawkwing]

Well if someone can send me a beta key I'll play.

I use to play DoTA all the time on WC3.

[Sporknight]

I'll play too sometime. Is there some sort of friends list or whatever so I can find you noobs? My game handle is, as always, Sporknight.

I've played a few rounds, and am starting to get the hang of it. I'd recommend looking at the forums on their website for some beginner guides and stuff if you're new. At least then you can get down some basics like denies and last hitting, and a few basic items to shoot for.

[Tensei]

I'll play too sometime. Is there some sort of friends list or whatever so I can find you noobs? My game handle is, as always, Sporknight.

I've played a few rounds, and am starting to get the hang of it. I'd recommend looking at the forums on their website for some beginner guides and stuff if you're new. At least then you can get down some basics like denies and last hitting, and a few basic items to shoot for.

We hang out in the ocremix channel in the chat, just type /join ocremix when you get online.

In other news, Arachna is pretty much the tits.

[zircon]

So, after playing maybe a dozen matches, I've been thinking about how good each individual Hero is. My thoughts;

God Tier - Behemoth (Everything he does stuns... literally, everything. He has an ability that multiplies his damage based on corpses AND enemy units on the screen, and one that buffs his next hit by 250%.)

S - Swiftblade (Multiple methods of insane AOE damage, generally really high output), Arachna (Ranged damage, auto-snares w/ every attack, great damage output, great ulti), Madman (Sort of like Predator, but more damage output plus stealth), Magebane (Ridiculous ganking abilities, insane dmg vs. casters, very hard to kill, though no stuns)

A - Predator (Constant lifedrain, rush attack that snares, built-in magic immunity, but no AOE and ulti is so-so), Pollywog Priest (tons of control abilities, great straight-up AOE nuke, ridiculous ulti, but can't sustain dmg and magic immunity screws him over)

B - Accursed (Pretty awesome 1v1 melee attacker, VERY hard to kill due to amazing ulti, heal + dispels, but no AOE, no stun, needs items to ramp up damage), War Beast (Two pets makes him great vs. creeps, especially neutrals, has a passive aura and AOE 'shout' to buff, all-around solid but no stun and no escapes)

C - Armadon (His AOE sucks, his ultimate sucks, he's hard to kill.. but no self-dispels, heals or magic immunity), Pharaoh (Seems OK at higher levels, w/ decent self-AOE, but weak on stuns, no method of dealing lots of dmg, ulti is not good), Chronos (Extremely hard to kill, but lacks any form of big damage or AOE)

Garbage - Voodoo Priest (Can this guy do ANYTHING? His main nuke is an OK 'aoe', but his heal/DOT is garbage, his ulti is complete garbage, and one of his abilities seemingly does nothing)

Feel free to add your own.. might be helpful.

[TehDonut]

haha, Voodoo Priest is awesome!

I'll play him the next time you join a game with me =D

[zircon]

Well, I'm sure you would kick ass with anything, because you're really good at the game But come on, look at his abilities. His DOT, at BEST, heals 40 per second for 8 seconds. That just.. sucks. That's usually not even 1/4 of a life bar late in the game, and pretty much every battle I've ever seen ends in well under 8 seconds. His ulti does nothing that I can see, and so does his AOE 'curse' thing.

[Tensei]

Defiler gets pretty overpowered too once you've farmed up a sacrificial heart and are around level 16. She has a ridiculously long ranged AoE nuke, AoE silence, and an amazing ultimate that decimates towers in seconds.

Also yes, swiftblade is so crazy, I definitely hate playing against him more than against behemoth. Behemoth can be stopped by good positioning of your heroes so both of his stuns miss at least one hero.

I think key with playing Voodoo Jester is to combo his abilities to gank people, he doesn't strike me as a very good liner/farmer. Stun with Acid Cocktail, Cursed Ground into Mojo (on the enemy hero) should do a huge amount of damage and be very helpful in team battles.

[zircon]

Yeah but Behemoth has AOE stun around him, and the line stun can separate enemy heroes/creeps, which is just devestating. I haven't played that much against Defiler, except when you play, but I agree she is pretty awesome. Where would you place her on the list?

[Tensei]

I'd rank her A probably, it takes some time to get her rolling (she's a so-called carry-type hero) but if you can avoid getting ganked a lot in the beginning she will start to dominate.

Edit: to clarify, the way to take down behemoth in my experience is to keep at least one big damage dealer seperated (maybe in the forest) when you're pushing so that as soon as behemoth uses the portal key to jump in and activates his ulti along with fissure, he has blown his load and you can hit him with something ridiculous like Arachna's ultimate. I got at least one kill off on c3lly this way.

[Capa Langley]

zircon, you've never played me as Voodoo, have you? Ask Wes and Ansou. They both had and wanted to kill me.

[zircon]

My updates after matches tonight;

A Tier - Devourer. Dude is a great ganker, but tricky to play. Hook gets caught on too much stuff. Still, as a solo char he's pretty amazing.

B Tier - Blacksmith. Solid skills, including a dmg + stun and can eventually do massive damage... but he takes awhile to really get effective.

[TehDonut]

Main thing for devourer, is to stay way out of the way of the lane and hook from the darkness. Also, level up ROT (BAHA!).

[Capa Langley]

Also for those who are entirely new to the genre.

http://honwiki.net/wiki/New_Player_Guide

[Tensei]

I noticed it's really important to learn how to lane properly, especially if you're planning on farming creeps for a longer time. Many of the times I've won were simply because at the start I was able to move the creeps close to my tower so I was somewhat protected from ganks, while I could easily harass the enemy heroes in my lane.

For starters, you should NEVER just stand there and auto-attack unless you're deliberately pushing the lane (which shouldn't be happening at the start anyway). I usually just micro my hero around by running back and forth and ONLY trying to get in last-hits on creeps, i.e. waiting until their hp is low enough to one-shot them (this gives you some gold as well.

Another thing is denying; if there's no enemy hero in the lane I often just start attacking my own creeps once they reach 50% health because this will move the lane closer to my tower. If there is an enemy hero, things get a little tricky because I want to be last-hitting, while at the same time finishing off my own creeps so he can't last hit them. It takes some conscious effort to be consistent at this but it definitely pays off.

Ideally you want to control the creep waves in a way that their battles happen just down the hill near your tower. The height advantage gives you lots of opportunities to harass the enemy hero as well. Finally, you can deliberately 'pull' the enemy creeps towards your tower (causing your creeps to follow them and thus moving the entire lane back towards you) by spamming right click on the enemy hero (even if he's out of range), this will cause his creeps to attack you so if you're fast, you can manage to run back a bit and kite them for a short distance before they re-engage your own creeps.

Edit: also, ALWAYS use your first bit of money to buy stat items (minor totem or pretender's crown) as well as consumables. It's extremely important to stay in your lane for as long as possible without having to run back to the fountain because this can easily set you back at least one or two levels if you do it too early. I personally try to stay in my lane until I have farmed up an item that can give me a big advantage at that moment. (E. Marchers for example, or maybe Fortified Bracelets if I'm getting my ass kicked).

Oh, and that's also why you need to prevent as much damage as possible unless you can make it worth it (i.e. ganking an enemy hero early). Do not engage enemy creeps by yourself, wait until a wave of your own creeps has arrived before you attack. And save your mana. Don't use skills on creeps and don't use them on heroes unless you're sure you can either make them retreat to their fountain or outright kill them.

More info: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=2625

I'll be playing moon queen a lot today. I noticed I prefer to play semi-carry/gankers, i.e. heroes that scale pretty well into lategame but have some good ganking potential in midgame as well.

[zircon]

Can someone explain what "carry" is? A lot of these new player guides talk about it, but no one really defines it. Also, the new player guides are extremely helpful. I didn't know that you get xp just for being around enemy kills - I thought you had to damage them!!