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OCR TF2: Stab stab stab!


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Sentries are difficult to most classes save Demo and Soldier, and most of the time they're pushing the front lines. Spies can sneak around and disable both the gun and the engineer.

Sentries are also only occasionally the last line of defense, I've seen plenty of Engies build their stuff far up to create a first line of defense.

It's a different playstyle that I can certainly see advantages for, especially on maps like Dustbowl or Goldrush where sentries can and have stymied pushes. If there's no Uber around, or able to get to the front lines intact, spies can shut down those defensive points and let the team push forward.

In addition, sentries with a constant Engie guard can be annoying even for spies, and they're not always super incredibly easy, especially if there's more than just the Engie around. Taking out sentries is just a different way to help the team, plus taking out enemy medics and the top attacker are never as easy as they sound. Ever.

Well, part of the point is to sap the sentry gun when your team is about to push.

I also tend to push carts, cap points, and capture Intel as a Spy. None of which show up on a K/D ratio, but do in points.

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So among all this Mac update fever, I noticed that the class tips have received a major overhaul. For example:

Engineers can help other Engineers build stuff.

M2 rotates building blueprints.

It's better to use an Ubercharge early or to save yourself than to die with a full charge.

Ditto for the Buff Banner.

Reload your gun as a Spy to make your disguise reload as well.

Using Bonk to distract a Sentry.

Drawing Sentry fire as an Ubered Medic to make it easier for your patient to move in and destroy it.

Compression blast extinguishes teammates.

Heal Soldiers and Demomen when the map starts so they have extra health to rocket jump with.

The Dead Ringer is obvious when used too soon to be plausible.

Spies can take enemy Teleporters.

Engineers should avoid standing on their exits because of this.

The bottle's damage is the same whether it's broken or not. (I lol'd at this one.)

Friendly disguises.

Drop Sandvich with M2.

The Dead Ringer's cloak does not flicker.

And other weapon stats and esoteric bits of information that most of us no doubt know already but are nonetheless obscured to new players. Personally, I think it's a fantastic change.

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ASFSDFHKJHF can't get on TF2 because I have to download the 1 gig update and I'm on a really slow network right now.

EDIT: Maybe the update combined with all the Mac people downloading the game is why the servers are busy.

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mp_forceautoteam

Self explanatory -- forces players to join a random team when they enter. Thoughts?

I thought about changing the server config to include it, but people go apeshit when I turn things on like that.

Anyway, I vote we enable it. It would end team stacking (and any allegations thereof) right here and now. The only drawback is that vote scramble would be the only way to fix unbalanced teams. Of course, right now, very very few people are willing to manually balance teams, so this isn't much of a change.

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dont enable that

Sentries are difficult to most classes save Demo and Soldier, and most of the time they're pushing the front lines. Spies can sneak around and disable both the gun and the engineer.

Sentries are also only occasionally the last line of defense, I've seen plenty of Engies build their stuff far up to create a first line of defense.

It's a different playstyle that I can certainly see advantages for, especially on maps like Dustbowl or Goldrush where sentries can and have stymied pushes. If there's no Uber around, or able to get to the front lines intact, spies can shut down those defensive points and let the team push forward.

In addition, sentries with a constant Engie guard can be annoying even for spies, and they're not always super incredibly easy, especially if there's more than just the Engie around. Taking out sentries is just a different way to help the team, plus taking out enemy medics and the top attacker are never as easy as they sound. Ever.

there is so much about this post that makes me wanna bash my head against a wall

Well, part of the point is to sap the sentry gun when your team is about to push.

I also tend to push carts, cap points, and capture Intel as a Spy. None of which show up on a K/D ratio, but do in points.

but youre rarely on top of the scoreboard also a spy has no place pushing the cart

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Yo and welcome to the OCRTF2 community! It'll install from the disc, but just know that Valve has added so much since its original release, you'll still going to be dling like, 2 more GB through Steam after installing.

Friendly reminder that Saturday is a Starfox TF2 event night... if we get enough people, we'll shift to RED, otherwise it's going on BLU, more info in this previous post - http://ocremix.org/forums/showpost.php?p=686468&postcount=1195

Event already approved by Brushfire.

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but youre rarely on top of the scoreboard

This is Team Fortress 2. Being on top of the scoreboard isn't my only goal.

You'd be surprised, for example, how many people can be lured off points chasing people. Particularly if said person they're chasing is a Spy.

If you're seriously doing things solely to place higher on the scoreboard rather than for the betterment of the team, I suggest you play a different game.

also a spy has no place pushing the cart

On the contrary, the Dead Ringer is excellent for cart pushing because the cart recharges it quite fast. This works particularly well on PLR maps.

Having said that, on most cart maps, I'm looking for sentry guns to sap when I'm on BLU.

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you can keep making excuses but generally your place on the scoreboard is a pretty solid indication as to how much youre helping your team

there are obviously ways to move up without helping but more often than not its because youre doing something useful

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you can keep making excuses but generally your place on the scoreboard is a pretty solid indication as to how much youre helping your team

there are obviously ways to move up without helping but more often than not its because youre doing something useful

I think you said it best earlier.

there is so much about this post that makes me wanna bash my head against a wall
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Haha! Has anyone else gotten those silly earbuds? Luckily I have a friend who jumped on the Mac client right when it came out so he logged in for me and got them. They actually look pretty stupid... I think I'll be mostly keeping my silver medal instead. :-/

EDIT: Fffffuu! I just realized that I dropped 3 places in the hlstatsx ranking. I'll have to get on and try and fix that. Ah, well, it really is all about having fun, though, right?

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theres an mvp list at the end of a round for a reason

Yes, but sometimes you don't have to be on the list to be a major player in a team's victory. A well-timed Ubercharge as a Medic, a solid sap or destruction of a vital sentry gun, proper spy checking on Defense, or separating a potentially devastating enemy ubercharge with a compression blast could qualify you as being useful, and they don't necessarily earn you big points.

Scoreboard position doesn't necessarily mean you're being useful. If you're a straight up combat class and you're locking down the enemy and racking up tons of points by stopping enemy counterattacks, then yes, it definitely is. But it's not the only meterstick that one should use to determine worth.

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Ah, well, it really is all about having fun, though, right?

I've been thinking a lot about that lately. Not just in the context of this game, moreso in general.

I don't think it's possible to reconcile overtly competitive gaming with casual fun. There's way too much ideological friction.

TF2 manages that friction pretty well; serious elements like the Announcer berating you and dominations are balanced against things like hats and absurd blog posts. But it still comes off a little schizophrenic.

--

Sitting on 2 refined metal now. It's making my brain itch.

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I've been thinking a lot about that lately. Not just in the context of this game, moreso in general.

I don't think it's possible to reconcile overtly competitive gaming with casual fun. There's way too much ideological friction.

TF2 manages that friction pretty well; serious elements like the Announcer berating you and dominations are balanced against things like hats and absurd blog posts. But it still comes off a little schizophrenic.

I understand what you're saying. However, none of us are using TF2 as a source of financial gain (at least as far as I know) so it should still be classified as a leisure activity. There are also some people who take games so seriously, basing their personal value as a person on how well they do in their favorite game. Not seeing a game for what it is (a game!) can be problematic.

I see TF2 as a fun way to hang out with people whose company I enjoy and blow off steam (the colloquialism, not the game distribution platform) while attempting to hone me some "mad skillz."

There are other things I could say, but I've got other stuff to do.

EDIT: Also where you see schizophrenic I see Valve using TF2 as a hotbed of new, innovative ideas in the gaming market. Things such as "What if we continue to support a several year old game with FREE maps, weapons, updates, etc?", "What if we throw in new elements to the game such as hats?", "What if we foster a rich community around a game?", "What if we allow *players* of the game to design maps, weapons, etc that then make it to the stock version of the game?" I'm sure that after every update they deeply analyze player response, market response (how many NEW copies were sold), media response, and a variety of other things! I wouldn't be surprised if Valve releases a research paper on how all this affects the gaming audience/market

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