OCR TF2: Stab stab stab!

[Powerlord]

Why even argue about it, there are class restrictions in place on red so if you want to play with them on it's really simple to you know, just go to red. Better yet anyone else playing on red is probably like-minded so you don't even have to hear whining over limits.

I see... so when I put those same restrictions on BLU instead of RED, that was bad, but now that they're on RED instead, it's OK?

[Vimk]

That was more because no one knew you were going to and everyone had been discussing it on irc. Fault there lies with us because we conveniently forgot to tell you the plan. But isn't this compromise fine? One server still has limits and both groups can play without overlap and can move on already.

[FireSlash]

Some people have voiced annoyance over mapvotes going up at bad times.

We have two options:

1) use mapchooser_extended.

pros: Sound alert before votes go out, votes don't use 1-3 keys

cons: no rtv/nominate. A similar behavior can be mimicked with playervotes.cfg but in a less intelligent fashion.

2) Go back to using the mapcycle.

Or we can just keep it how it is and deal with the pop up votes.

[ParanoidDrone]

Some people have voiced annoyance over mapvotes going up at bad times.

We have two options:

1) use mapchooser_extended.

pros: Sound alert before votes go out, votes don't use 1-3 keys

cons: no rtv/nominate. A similar behavior can be mimicked with playervotes.cfg but in a less intelligent fashion.

2) Go back to using the mapcycle.

Or we can just keep it how it is and deal with the pop up votes.

Once again I need to remind myself that I am in the minority of people who predominately use the scroll wheel to choose weapons, not the number keys.

Even so, I don't like the idea of removing RTV, since that would lock out the ability to move away from a bad map without admin intervention. So either leave it as is or go back to the mapcycle if it's getting that bad.

[Bahamut]

That was more because no one knew you were going to and everyone had been discussing it on irc. Fault there lies with us because we conveniently forgot to tell you the plan. But isn't this compromise fine? One server still has limits and both groups can play without overlap and can move on already.

Honestly, the solution probably would've been better the other way around, as with this setup, I see a good number of people just quit in frustration, while those who just want to play engie would find an alternate server to keep playing if it were the other way around, therefore filling both servers more reliably.

So after playing earlier, I saw quite a bit of frustration with certain teams with engies ruining maps for one team for two maps in a row. One was Turbine (yeah I know) - one team went normal classes, and one team was mostly engies with a few normal classes. One team naturally rolled the other, but even after entreaties from some on the other team, the engies still were as futile. It ended up in an rtv halfway through the map because the dynamic was so terrible.

The next map, Dustbowl, was surprisingly bad as well. Namely due to the engineers on offense not doing much and not caring either. The rest of the team decided it was nice to go predominantly spy & sniper for a while, although after the futility was exhibited people started to change classes slowly. Unequal teams probably made it worse as well. During that time I saw at least 6 people quit in frustration, with a few going to Red to try to start it up, although it never happened.

From what I can tell, it may not be completely the fault of there being a lack of an engie class limit, but it seems to exacerbate the dynamics quite a lot for those stuck with deadweight pubs trying to play engie or play terribly in general - in a normal situation, it might be easier to get a team scramble going with that, but the engie update may have obfuscated some perceptions of the dynamics. I'm not completely sure how to best solve this yet, perhaps I'll think up of something tomorrow.

[atmuh]

1) use mapchooser_extended.

pros: Sound alert before votes go out, votes don't use 1-3 keys

cons: no rtv/nominate. A similar behavior can be mimicked with playervotes.cfg but in a less intelligent fashion.

i may have figured out a way to eliminate this con

ill know for sure in a little bit

[RussellChamp]

everybody complaining for/against class limits

Hey guys... I just like to play video games online with people I've made friends with. How badly is this for/against class limits thing worth arguing over? There have been some heated arguments and long dialogs from both sides of the camp and convincing arguments but is it really worth it?

Whether or not I agree with the policy is beside the point. The real question is whether the admins have stepped outside their role of authority or abused their powers. I feel that they really have not. Whenever I visit different servers, I always reflect on how nice the OCR one is (which is a direct result of BOTH the players and the admins that make it up).

I don't mean to sound like a dick or pretentious and I understand that people want to have a fun time with their friends but if you really, really don't like the rules that the OCR TF2 admins make that badly, there are like 500 viable, different TF2 servers out there, some of which may have rules more to your liking.

Tell me if I'm wrong... that's just my opinion.

PS I do feel that presenting ideas and opinions are a great thing but all this bickering just seems unnecessary.

[Bleck]

all this bickering just seems unnecessary.

I don't mean to sound pretentious

oh what a tangled web

[FireSlash]

Ok so because atmuh is awesome, I've fixed the mapchooser_extended plugin.

BASICALLY

- rtv and nominate still function exactly the same as they do now.

- You now get a 15 second audible and visible warning + countdown for the next map vote

- Map vote keys are no longer bound to 1-3

- If no map wins by 45%, it will do a runoff vote with the top voted maps

Someone pointed out engies use keys 4+ for building and destroying, but with the alert it should be fine (Once you vote, you can resume normal key use, and you know it's coming), so hopefully this should be an ideal solution

[Bleck]

that sounds good

[ParanoidDrone]

Someone pointed out engies use keys 4+ for building and destroying, but with the alert it should be fine (Once you vote, you can resume normal key use, and you know it's coming), so hopefully this should be an ideal solution

Spies too, for their disguises.

Same answer applies though. And we do have the lastdisguise button.

[Native Jovian]

Once again I need to remind myself that I am in the minority of people who predominately use the scroll wheel to choose weapons, not the number keys.

I totally do this too. Using the number keys for weapons seems really really weird to me.

[EdgeCrusher]

Hey at least there wasn't a free weekend this time.

[atmuh]

I totally do this too. Using the number keys for weapons seems really really weird to me.

i use the number keys for every class except engineer when i wanna build something

[ParanoidDrone]

And following procrastination and a fit of boredom, I whipped up a script that removes the Disguise Kit and PDAs from the scroll wheel selection. It won't reset when you die though, so that'll be an issue unless you set TF2 to remember your weapon between lives.

alias "primary" "slot1; bind mwheelup melee; bind mwheeldown secondary"

alias "secondary" "slot2; bind mwheelup primary; bind mwheeldown melee"

alias "melee" "slot3; bind mwheelup secondary; bind mwheeldown primary"

bind mwheelup melee

bind mwheeldown secondary

[Kiyobi]

Spies too, for their disguises.

Same answer applies though. And we do have the lastdisguise button.

Real spies dial 4-#-# for disguises.

And following procrastination and a fit of boredom, I whipped up a script that removes the Disguise Kit and PDAs from the scroll wheel selection. It won't reset when you die though, so that'll be an issue unless you set TF2 to remember your weapon between lives.

Real players use the number keys to choose weapons. also my mouse wheel sucks balls so i pretty much taught myself to never use it

[ParanoidDrone]

Real spies dial 4-#-# for disguises.

I do use 4-X-X to disguise. But it and the PDA gets in the way when I scroll from primary to melee and vice versa.

[atmuh]

I do use 4-X-X to disguise. But it and the PDA gets in the way when I scroll from primary to melee and vice versa.

use f to pull out melee its nice

[FireSlash]

use f to pull out melee its nice

I do this as well

Except sometimes I accidentally hit g

[Powerlord]

The stats page on the server now brings up a list of which game you want to look at, due to adding HLStatsX tracking of the CS:S server. The link in the MOTD has been updated to link directly to the TF2 page on HLStatsX instead.

Additionally, I've modified it so HLStatsX will no longer announce connecting players, as per a prior request from Bahamut.

[Bahamut]

I requested that?

[Powerlord]

I requested that?

I thought it was you.

Maybe it was FireSlash.

Also: As a reminder, RED has the ??? Event tonight at 9pm EDT / 6pm PDT. Which involves some... surprises.

[Meeting_Gman]

I totally do this too. Using the number keys for weapons seems really really weird to me.

I do this too. It's a bad habit though because my mouse wheel isn't very tight, so sometimes it will flick back to a weapon I don't want.

[ParanoidDrone]

I'm watching Lale play right now as I work on a research paper and noticed that apparently we have an RTD mod installed.

WHAT?

Also Lale just rolled and got a 500 HP overheal and someone else is on a timer until they explode. WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN.

EDIT: Nevermind, talked with Powerlord, it's sorted out now.

[Powerlord]

I'm watching Lale play right now as I work on a research paper and noticed that apparently we have an RTD mod installed.

WHAT?

Also Lale just rolled and got a 500 HP overheal and someone else is on a timer until they explode. WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN.

EDIT: Nevermind, talked with Powerlord, it's sorted out now.

Yes, apparently putting the cvar to disable it in autoexec.cfg doesn't work if the plugin is loaded on map change, as autoexec.cfg is only executed once on server load.

Anyway... since the cat is out of the bag, this plugin is related to the event on RED tonight.