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DJ Mighty

Marvel vs. Capcom 3

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Marvel vs Capcom 2 had 58 characters. This game seems to only have 38. Plus, they took out far too many staple characters (WHERE THE FUCK IS CABLE?! SON SON!? Son of a bitch...) to put in new guys, when most of them aren't exactly amazing adds. Plus, I really don't like the new look of the game. I'd have been psyched if they kept the old school fighting game feel and doubled the roster...instead, we're stuck with this.

I swear to god if I find out they held back characters just to sell them as DLC, this game is moving from my "buy" list to my "pirate" list so I can take that money and pay for the "rest of the game".

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Cable and Sonson are staples? Please explain.

I should have separated those two statements a bit more. Characters like Storm, Cable, Cyclops, and numerous others were very commonly played characters. Son Son was more a staple for me in MvC2. It seems numerous big-name characters are gone and replaced with lesser-known ones. I can forgive Son Son, but if you look, numerous characters are missing...with 15-20 new characters in, and only about 38 on the roster, that means 40 characters were removed.

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I should have separated those two statements a bit more. Characters like Storm, Cable, Cyclops, and numerous others were very commonly played characters. Son Son was more a staple for me in MvC2. It seems numerous big-name characters are gone and replaced with lesser-known ones. I can forgive Son Son, but if you look, numerous characters are missing...with 15-20 new characters in, and only about 38 on the roster, that means 40 characters were removed.

I smell an Elitist.

They said from the get go that most characters from MVC2 were not returning. They are focusing mostly on characters that have not appeared in a capcom fighter before.

Also, I don't know why everyone obsesses over how many characters were in MVC2. 90% of the cast was just copy pasted from a previous game and programmed to the new four button system. 2 is very over rated. The only innovations it really had at all was 3 on 3, combining/switching out super combos and a unique soundtrack.

On a different note,

They've dumbed the controls down again..........why do video game companies insist on treating us like retards lol.

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I smell an Elitist.

They said from the get go that most characters from MVC2 were not returning. They are focusing mostly on characters that have not appeared in a capcom fighter before.

Also, I don't know why everyone obsesses over how many characters were in MVC2. 90% of the cast was just copy pasted from a previous game and programmed to the new four button system. 2 is very over rated. The only innovations it really had at all was 3 on 3, combining/switching out super combos and a unique soundtrack.

On a different note,

They've dumbed the controls down again..........why do video game companies insist on treating us like retards lol.

How the hell is that statement elitist? Because most of the commonly-played characters that were big names in both MvC and MvC2 are gone and have been replaced by a much weaker cast? I'm fine with them taking characters out to replace them, but if that's the case, make it the same level or better if you can. Plus, take a look at who they left in against who they took out...Sentinel and Juggernaut remain, but Cyclops, Gambit, Storm, and Cable are all gone. Tron Bonne and Zero are in, but no Megaman, Strider, Jill, Jin, or Dan Hibiki?

Still, for taking out most of the cast, it's the Mortal Kombat Kurse. Make a game that has that many characters, then release a future game removing a majority of them, and you'll see the game take a serious hit for it. Plus, I get that they're trying to bring in new names, but for fucks sake, is it really that difficult to stick with the same style that MvC and MvC2 brought, maybe update it a little more, bring back a majority of the old cast, then add in all these extras? It seems a horrible idea when you're bringing back a game for the first time in 10 years.

Oh, and MvC2 was "highly rated" because it offered exactly what a fighting game should offer: a widespread cast, tight gameplay, challenging but not clunky controls, well-designed characters and levels, amazing replay value, huge amount of diversity for any type of fighting game fan...you're looking at a winning formula right there.

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Er, you have that a bit mixed up. Juggernaut's not in, Storm is, and Jill will be.

I hadn't kept up on new releases, I just saw what seemed to be the full, final list. I just went back and checked and saw it was the "leaked list" from a few months ago, and just noticed numerous names I knew were confirmed. Either way, I still stand by a lot of what I said. Good to know Storm is making a return though, she was one of my favorites.

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So wait, you would actually prefer that they just stuck more characters MvC2-style into a ten-year old game engine and called it a day? Pretty sure that's they only way they could have done it without having to remake everyone the way they did, and I figure it would end up really lackluster. "Updating it a little more" isn't a real option, and even more so with MvC2 being as crazy imbalanced as it was.

You are right that there's a conflict between reviving a crossover like MvC and wanting it to be current, though. People are going to want characters that have lost a lot of relevance just because they were in the previous games (Jin, Gambit, Cable). I don't think it's as drastic as you make it sound though, a lot of MvC2's roster was dead weight, even outside the tournament scene.

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So wait, you would actually prefer that they just stuck more characters MvC2-style into a ten-year old game engine and called it a day? Pretty sure that's they only way they could have done it without having to remake everyone the way they did, and I figure it would end up really lackluster. "Updating it a little more" isn't a real option, and even more so with MvC2 being as crazy imbalanced as it was.

You are right that there's a conflict between reviving a crossover like MvC and wanting it to be current, though. People are going to want characters that have lost a lot of relevance just because they were in the previous games (Jin, Gambit, Cable). I don't think it's as drastic as you make it sound though, a lot of MvC2's roster was dead weight, even outside the tournament scene.

Shade hit the nail on the head.

As for Phoenix being elitist....you appear to be raging because MvC3's roster cuts out many of the old characters, specifically the ones you enjoy. You say those characters were stronger, and with some of them I agree wholeheartedly (Gambit and Rogue dammit!), but that's still opinion none the less.

Maybe yur not elitist but 8/10 people online who are complaining about characters are. I didn't outright accuse you, I just said I "smell" an elitist. My nose has been known to fail me though.

Also, the development team has to push to get the characters in the game from marvel and capcom sides. People gotta cut em' some slack......

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Oh, and MvC2 was "highly rated" because it offered exactly what a fighting game should offer: a widespread cast, tight gameplay, challenging but not clunky controls, well-designed characters and levels, amazing replay value, huge amount of diversity for any type of fighting game fan...you're looking at a winning formula right there.

This nearly made me shit a brick. :lol:

If more than several of my non-fighting game fan friends can stomp on my ass by cheesing with the standard Yipes set, then refuse to play any other fighter with me, that should be pretty telling of the "balance" that MvC2 "had".

Also I'm pretty sure that if they were going for relevancy, then neither Haggar, Amaterasu, Zero, Viewtiful Joe, or any Darkstalkers characters would have ever been on the table, but Sakura might have been(not that I'm bitter or anything). I thought they were going for actual balance with the game, but then they went and added Sentinel. If there isn't anything to convince me otherwise, I guess I can expect the same broken shenanigans from MvC2.

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I thought they were going for actual balance with the game, but then they went and added Sentinel. If there isn't anything to convince me otherwise, I guess I can expect the same broken shenanigans from MvC2.

Notice that Sentinel's flight mode appears severely gimped in 3, and he doesn't seem to have the same loops as before. Sentinel without those crazy resets is only a gimmick at best, and not the top-tier char he was in MvC2.

Don't jump to conclusions until the pros get a hold of the final build. I'd bet anything that the devs are aware of the old tricks -- MSS will not be the ideal team in MvC3, I can almost guarantee it.

As an aside, I think I remember seeing somewhere that there was a dev goal of eliminating (or at least drastically reducing) infinite combos, yes? Doesn't hitstun scale down as combo gets higher?

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Oh, and MvC2 was "highly rated" because it offered exactly what a fighting game should offer: a widespread cast, tight gameplay, challenging but not clunky controls, well-designed characters and levels, amazing replay value, huge amount of diversity for any type of fighting game fan...you're looking at a winning formula right there.

I must have missed something, because "broken" is the word that comes up every time I play MvsC2. Even if you rule out the idea that some characters are obviously stronger/quicker/overpowered than others no matter who plays as them, you have one character that takes no chip damage whatsoever that everyone spams, and blocking only works half of the time.

Oh wait! We punched in our hypers at the same time, but the computer recognized mine first? And they don't cancel out? Sucks to be you!

It's a great game, but tight gameplay my ass.

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Wall of text. May be tl, wouldn't blame you if you dr.

So wait, you would actually prefer that they just stuck more characters MvC2-style into a ten-year old game engine and called it a day? Pretty sure that's they only way they could have done it without having to remake everyone the way they did, and I figure it would end up really lackluster. "Updating it a little more" isn't a real option, and even more so with MvC2 being as crazy imbalanced as it was.

I'm talking updating the look of the engine while still keeping the 2d feel. We're in an age where 2D fighters can still come out and do really well (see: Guilty Gear and Blazblue). I, personally, am not a huge fan of the new engine...haven't been a fan of them taking it 3D at all. Part of the fun of MvC2 is that it still keeps those same dynamics that most of us grew to love through Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, King of Fighters, so on and so forth. If other 2D fighters can come out nowadays and still look really good, there's nothing saying they shouldn't be able to do the same.

You are right that there's a conflict between reviving a crossover like MvC and wanting it to be current, though. People are going to want characters that have lost a lot of relevance just because they were in the previous games (Jin, Gambit, Cable). I don't think it's as drastic as you make it sound though, a lot of MvC2's roster was dead weight, even outside the tournament scene.

My big thing I looked for is this: what is replacing the things that are being taken out. Some of them I'm excited for. Most, however, not so much. While the game may have characters that lost relevance, it's been so long since the last one that it wont feel like they've worn out their welcome. I do agree, there was a good chunk of MvC2's roster that was dead weight, but many that were staples and recognizable have been removed. I could live without Son Son, she was just my favorite in MvC2, if not for the fact that I could kick some serious ass with her, the "deg deg deg" noises she made drove my opponents nuts.

As for Phoenix being elitist....you appear to be raging because MvC3's roster cuts out many of the old characters, specifically the ones you enjoy. You say those characters were stronger, and with some of them I agree wholeheartedly (Gambit and Rogue dammit!), but that's still opinion none the less.

How the hell is that elitism though? I'm not saying I am better than anyone, but I do hold numerous characters that were cut in high regard, both for who they are, and how much fun they were to play. Gambit, Cable, and Son Son was one of my best team ups. None of them made it. So, yeah, I'm a little disappointed that I can't use any of them, two that were very widely used, but we get stuck with guys like...Dormammu...

Then again, I also wonder what the fuck they were thinking when they went "well, we have to choose between Ghost Rider, Phoenix Wright, or She-Hulk...Ghost Rider just came out with a movie and has regained popularity since then, Phoenix Wright has a huge cult following...YOU KNOW WHAT, TO HELL WITH IT, LETS GO WITH SHE-HULK!"

I could seriously list about 20 characters no longer on the roster that disappoint me because of that, some that were canceled during development and others that were dropped completely. I mean, again...Zero and Tron Bonne but no Megaman? No Serv-bot? Lets face it, if you knew how to play him, you could drive your opponents bat-shit crazy.

Oh wait! We punched in our hypers at the same time, but the computer recognized mine first? And they don't cancel out? Sucks to be you!

A big thing to keep in mind is that the hypers that are faster tend to do less damage. While their advantage lies in quicker strikes, they may only do 25% damage where more powerful ones can do 40 to even 50%. It may seem broken but compare the damage between the two, the one that takes a little longer will most times do more damage.

If more than several of my non-fighting game fan friends can stomp on my ass by cheesing with the standard Yipes set, then refuse to play any other fighter with me, that should be pretty telling of the "balance" that MvC2 "had".

The game does work for button mashers but I've never once seen a button masher beat a person that knew what they were doing. Some characters were more powerful, and I do agree that it could be worked, but the more you understood the game then the easier it was to find how to counter it.

Also I'm pretty sure that if they were going for relevancy, then neither Haggar, Amaterasu, Zero, Viewtiful Joe, or any Darkstalkers characters would have ever been on the table, but Sakura might have been(not that I'm bitter or anything). I thought they were going for actual balance with the game, but then they went and added Sentinel. If there isn't anything to convince me otherwise, I guess I can expect the same broken shenanigans from MvC2.

I'm iffy on Sentinel too. Strikes completely across the field left and right. He was one I wasn't too happy to see whenever I faced off 2p games. Then again, if I knew a person was playing him, I'd normally toss on both Son Son and Serv-Bot and laugh as they raged. Those two may be weak as hell but if you know how to use them, they work perfectly.

As far as the characters, I can understand Darkstalkers, atleast the most well known ones (Felicia and Morrigan) as those still today have alot of presence. Haggar is a maybe. Zero I could see simply because of the popularity of the Megaman series. Viewtiful Joe was a wildly popular game. I can agree and understand most of them being in. Guys like M.O.D.O.K., Shuma-Gorath, Trish, and Arthur (though I LOVE the Ghosts and Goblins games) just seemed very out of place, plus the ones I've already mentioned.

OH, YEAH! WHERE THE FUCK IS VENOM!?

EDIT:

Do have to add this. This video still cracks me up.

EDIT 2:

Just realized I'm now Dan Hibiki from forum posts. Another character missing from MvC3. Damn you, Capcom. Damn you.

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There's this other fighting game, you know, where you can play as Ken, Sakura, Dan, M. Bison, Dudley, and all those guys... What was it called... it's something-something 4... Fairly new, I'm sure.

Also Venom might be DLC later on. If not, expect SOME Spider-Man villain. Maybe Green Goblin or Doctor Octopus.

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I'm talking updating the look of the engine while still keeping the 2d feel. We're in an age where 2D fighters can still come out and do really well (see: Guilty Gear and Blazblue). I, personally, am not a huge fan of the new engine...haven't been a fan of them taking it 3D at all. Part of the fun of MvC2 is that it still keeps those same dynamics that most of us grew to love through Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct, King of Fighters, so on and so forth. If other 2D fighters can come out nowadays and still look really good, there's nothing saying they shouldn't be able to do the same.

Thing is, the first Blazblue had 12 characters. KOFXII had 22, about half the size of the cast in XI, and spent twice the time in development that MvC3 did. Not digging the art style is completely reasonable, as long as you realize that an HD sprite based MvC3 would have dropped even more characters from 2 and have taken longer.

I'm not 100% thrilled with the roster, but a lot of the odd characters have grown on me once I stopped worrying about who they were replacing. (and once the dick punch that was giving Dante a Ryu from Breath of Fire color stopped hurting :cry:) And there is DLC coming.

Dormammu's the shit, though, I dunno what your deal is there

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Oh god yes. Fuck. Yes

Get out of my head! :-(

Man, if they added X or Axle along with Vile, my team would be so complete.

I guess if they wanted to keep Tron Bonne company, they could add Roll Casket from Legends.

One can dream. As it stands, looks like my team is going to consist of Joe, Felicia and probably Zero. This of course assuming that Seth Killian comes out and says Sentinel can't pull off the same cheese from MvC2.

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