Battletoads + DoubleDragon - Rocket Slam: Brought to you by Level 99 & Gario!

[Gario]

Hey all!

Got a fresh mix for you all, from... well, the title says it well enough.

Rocket Slam (OLD)

Rocket Slam (FINAL)

You may notice that there's a shitty synth guitar in there, ruining the music. Thus, I need a volunteer to lay down a guitar track for me. I know you guys are out there - y'all make great guitar music on this site all the time.

Just a couple of things, for anyone willing to take me up on it...

The tempo is 180mm throughout, in the key of Dd (there's a lot of focus in A, as well).

Don't worry about the track I laid out - it's there to fill the space so it's easier to mix in the guitars. Some of the track is representative to the source, though (0:33 - 0:44, 1:04 - 1:25, 1:45 - 1:55), so if you vary those track, keep it at a minimum, there. Otherwise, go nuts and have fun with it.

2:18 doesn't have a guitar track down there. That's because I'm looking for a solo to really give that last section some flavor, and I wouldn't dream of trying to make something up there with my shitty guitar sound.

Here are some files that may help, if you're interested.

No Guitar

Guitar Only (*shudder*)

Otherwise, feel free to comment/critique... just keep in mind that I can't get the final mixing/mastering done until I have a guitar to lay down on top.

Thanks!

EDIT: Cripes! Forgot the

!

EDIT2: No more shitty synth guitar - Level 99 took care of that, and now it rocks.

[LuketheXjesse]

I'd provide guitar if I didn't suspect it'd take me 5 years to remember to get around to doing it.

[Level 99]

I owe Gario for all the feedback and critiquing he's done for me in the WIP forums. He's one of the people who's helped me grow to where I am today. If it were a lesser man, I would pass this up. But...it's Gario. Plus, this is an easy jam-out, probably. WE WILL BE QUITE EVEN AFTER THIS, GARIO! I shall look into this this weekend, inbetween every single OTHER WIP I have in my bag.

[BlackPanther]

Sounds pretty cool so far. The only complaint I have are the drums, the reason bein is that this song has a kinda epic feel to it and I don't think the drums hit hard enough for that. Other than that I think this is sweet as well. Can't wait to hear a guitarist on this, if I could play the guitar I'd be all over it lol.

[Gario]

Mucho Gracias, lv99! You'll only owe me your SOUL, after this track . When the guitar part comes in and I get time to do the mixing/mastering I'll get back to you all (moving this weekend, so it'll take me a little time to clear that up then mix it).

Thanks lv99 - it's gonna be epic .

[Rozovian]

I'll second the complain about the drums, but my main concern is the snare. Needs to be bigger, also more human during the parts with lots of snare. Flams and ghost notes need to be softer.

Arrangement is cool. Good choice for a game, it's one that I've been looking at lately to remix too... as if there wasn't already lots of Dave Wise mixes on this site.

[Gario]

Don't worry, I third the complaint on the drums (especially the snare). For the most part, though, I'm going to try to fix it in through mixing/mastering and simply bring it to the foreground (and probably change the snare, altogether), so when Level 99 sets the guitar I'll fix the drums in one fell swoop.

Yeah, that game doesn't have nearly enough mixes on here - I ran through it recently to find that every song on the game is really incredible. Even crossed my mind to just get an album of it done real quick (if this site doesn't have enough albums being worked on, lol), but I don't have the time to do that sort of thing, on my own.

[Eino Keskitalo]

Very nice energy in the wip.. looking forward to an update!

--Eino

[Level 99]

Guitars incoming, Gario!

[Gario]

*Guitars get*

Thanks - I'll get working on this asap. Here's hoping for an update in the next few days.

[HoboKa]

Well Gario, if you have time to pump out new random remixes on the forum - then you have time to do some LoD remixing

And trust me the track you picked for the remix is way easier than this one you just remixed - which is really awesome btw =D

I'm saving this one in fact lol.

[Monobrow]

Yo Gario, while I'm on my WIP board spree of the month, time to get to a cool dude's WIP.

First thing I noticed right off the bat, strings could use some work.

I don't think they need quite as much reverb/release/decay as you're giving them (and the rest of the orchestra)

Also, the attack on the strings for the short notes would sit much better with me if you, well, if shortened it, or use a different sample, anything. You want those strings to have more punch and emphasis, because they are rhythmic. Later on in the song, they kind of suffer from the attack/toomuchrelease? thing again when they take stabs, this causes everything there to sound more sloppy, just because of them. You want them to emphasize, not take away.

I feel like there could be more bass presence in this song, I'm on headphones FYI.

Drums are okay, they are driving. Some EQ messing around could help to bring them out though, or a slight bit of compression. I feel like there should be some loud booms of timpani or something at more climatic parts of the song... Some loud booms or like, tribal stuff.

I feel like the song needs more EQ too, things need to sit a little better, it's a little muddy, but I think that less reverb and release on those orchestral samples might help with this anyway. Also some of the higher notes in those strings are causing some resonance and hurt my ears a tad... Maybe mess with EQ a tiny bit in the higher mids (2-3khz range) EQ those down, and maybe EQ them up a tad in the 5khz+ range to compensate?

Not much to say about the writing. With DA GUITAR ON YOUR SIDE, I think you're on your way so good luck

[Gario]

Thanks for the comments . Still settling in, so I won't be able to work on anything for a few days.

I'll be sure to balance the sounds & fix the strings when I mix the guitars in there (I just wrote the notes in there - no volume work or anything, so I'd expect them to be pretty bad, atm). Thanks for pointing them out, Monobrow - I was thinking about leaving them if no one pointed me out on them, 'cause I'm a lazy bastard, lol. Now I won't, I promise .

Glad you liked the drums, though - they just need to be in the front, 'cause they just aren't there, in the mix.

Hey, Hoboka, I haven't put anything on here for months (my LAGUNA LOL mix was the last one I had up here, three months ago), since I've been working on all sorts of project mixes. I'll surely get to the LoD music soon, though - I just played through the game again, trying to get pumped about writing for it .

Not much to say about the writing. With DA GUITAR ON YOUR SIDE, I think you're on your way so good luck

Do not underestimate the power of the Dark Side. I turned sides with this track, and I gotta say it feels pretty damn good.

[chevymeister]

Really diggin' this so far.. Can't wait to hear the updated version.

[HoboKa]

Thanks for the comments .

Hey, Hoboka, I haven't put anything on here for months (my LAGUNA LOL mix was the last one I had up here, three months ago), since I've been working on all sorts of project mixes. I'll surely get to the LoD music soon, though - I just played through the game again, trying to get pumped about writing for it .

That's cool bro - I'm playing the game through too - such a grind-fest intensive game, but a fun grind fest =p

If you need any help with remixing the boss 3 track, you can use my mp3 of my old school remix of it to get some ideas...sadly I only have the midi for half of the track, as the full version got corrupted...long story.

[Gario]

Finally got the thing mixed, addressed the string problem (as much as I can), brought the drums to the front, EQ'd it, etc.. I suspect it's still a little muddy, but it's getting close to the final product.

Oh yeah, and don't forget to praise Level 99, too - his guitar took this from 'suck' to 'awesome'

Here it is - give me some crits, tell me what to fix and I'll go send it off to the J's

Rocket Slam

[Level 99]

Hey man, the solo guitar are actually even earlier before now than last version. Push them so the first guitar note coincides with the first beat (kick) of the following measure. Here, here is my old version with the guitars lined up how it's supposed to sound:

http://www.mediafire.com/?dwizgjnx5zn

Hopefully that helps. Other than that, I think it sounds great.

[hewhoisiam]

It's been a few days, let me see if I remember how to do this... *insert usual disclaimer here*

The overall feel of this is good, I'm going to critique the drum track though. You want the 16th note that fall in between the down beats to be more laid back, quieter. Right now, they're overpowering. Anytime you have a run of notes, 16ths or 16th trips or 32nds, accenting the first notes, and the first note on new drums gives it a more natural feel. Consider using different snares for loud accents (I tend to think of rimshots or rim+snares) to really lay down a heavy back beat in places. The 16ths on hi hat come to mind as maybe a good place to add some extra smack to the snare.

During the tom solos, don't forget the bass drum is a drum too. We cheat and use it to fill space or really lay down accents. Just a thought.

The entire thing seems a little loud. Maybe it's just me though, I can really see some dynamics on the pad-like sounds making a difference in this. Of course, I'm a dynamics whore so..

[Emunator]

Gonna hold off on the Mod Review until you can clarify which version you want judged - yours, Stevo's, or something updated. Just wanted to let you know that I noticed this and will get to it as soon as you decide which version you want me to look at!

[Gario]

I'll look at the drum track's note emphasis and see if I can humanize it a little bit without killing myself. I suggest you look at the tom solos and realize the bass drums are there as the lowest 'Tom' - it's a drumming trick. 'Upper toms' 'Lower Toms' 'Bass Drum'... that's how I get my shape.

I dunno, Level 99... for some reason the way you lined up that solo sounds off in the beginning, to me (I think that's what I was hearing when I said that before). I feel better about the version I spliced and re-aligned, if you don't mind it too much.

Emunator, the version that I posted is the one that requires the review (this one, in fact). Give it to me straight; I think it's fair to say it's at a mod-review stage, though .

[Emunator]

This is pretty cool I loooooove the really powerful synth that 1:26, that's the highlight of the song for me. In general, the song is very well composed. The little string/bell embellishments were wonderful and gave a nice cinematic quality to the mix. The song overall has a very intense quality to it that I just love. And, of course, Stevo's guitar is incredibly badass! The drums feel a little bit weak in the writing, but you gave it a good, honest effort and I think what you've got should suffice and doesn't really bring the song down as a whole. If you can touch it up to humanize it a bit, it wouldn't be a bad thing by any means! Source usage seems to check out - it's a bit conservative but I think you made it your own sufficiently.

The mixing isn't perfect, there's some elements (the bells and the strings) that get a bit harsh in the high frequencies, and there's some times where the guitar feels a bit washed out and difficult to hear. Maybe bring the lead guitar forward a bit at times.

However, all things considered I think this has a good chance against the panel. I can't say it's a guaranteed pass but regardless, it's something that I'll be listening to for a while once you post a finalized version. Killer work!

[Level 99]

Nah, I don't mind it too much. Something I'll never let The Prophet live down, my solo for the Radical Dreamers track "Theives of Fate (Days of Summer)" is off by a bizarre amount of time. I guess most people wouldn't guess it, though.

Yeah, I really don't mind how you splice that in, TBH. It's your song so place it wherever you want, whatever you think sounds best.

[Invader_Quirk]

I've been waiting for a mix of this for a long time. This song has always stuck with me. This is the best music to beat up rats to that a guy could hope for.

[hewhoisiam]

First off, let me start by saying I'm always thinking about 'real' which is very different than 'good' (a synth is no better than a guitar, just different, but either can work) So, when I talk about drums, I think in terms of how a drummer would do X,Y,Z, not necessarily 'is this best for the mix' And my usual disclaimer - these are all opinions, feel free to disagree etc, etc. You in the audience can disagree, etc

Lemme give it another listen and see if something else pops out at me...

1) Humanizing drums (and maintaining sanity) You can add another drum track(s) and add crashes and embellishments at the end and beginning of phrases, every 2 or 4 measures just for a change. the tom transitions you have work well, but with a beat this fast it gets repetitive equally fast.

2) At 1:16 that double bass part doesn't sound quite right to me. Personal opinion maybe. At 1:16 it's actually a straight fast 8 driving pattern that I like. It's a bit later on where the double bass feels like it's just too much. Maybe a few would be nice, but imo too many.

3) Some places the guitar sounds great, in others I feel it gets pushed aside when it should be center stage. The synth around 1:28 doing that is great, then it seems to me when the guitar comes in there it's too quiet. I can see it coming in with the same energy and volume that the synth had.

I'll look at the drum track's note emphasis and see if I can humanize it a little bit without killing myself. I suggest you look at the tom solos and realize the bass drums are there as the lowest 'Tom' - it's a drumming trick. 'Upper toms' 'Lower Toms' 'Bass Drum'... that's how I get my shape.

Yeah, I do that in my double bass all the time. But a real bass drum is muffled and dead, much different than a synth bass. Or at least I think. It's going so fast there that it's hard to pull out individual drums. I meant the original comment to be more along the lines of 'if you wanted to add emphasis to tom changes, a good way is to add a bass drum on the change' I guess. I don't know. If ja like what ja gots, keeps it.

As far as how cheating works on this as I've come to understand it: Double bass cheats most often in 2s and 4s, single bass cheats in 1s and 2s. 6es at this speed go 4 toms, 2 bass, 4 next tom, 2 bass. or 2 toms, 4 bass. It gives it a lopsided feel that stands out in songs (Mike Portnoy loves this) Single bass is usually done slower, but you can double the 2s pretty easily. The singles usually take er. Look like this (his tom solo beat) http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=H2Tlp-iS8ZE&feature=related Again. I don't know if that's what you're looking for, but that's what I think when I'm trying for a certain sound. Not trying to tell you how to run the show (which I kinda feel like I'm doing, yar har har ) Just some insight. And a wall of textes.

[Gario]

Thanks for the details on that, Hewhoisiam. I'll certainly be taking another look on my drum track, and your advice will help considerably.

Stay tuned!