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Thats all you have to say? Seriously. For the guy who started this thread, would you be happy with people giving you half assed vague comments with no explanations? All you're doing is confusing people and steering them down the wrong path and its becoming a problem.

Either start explaining more and writing well thought out comments or stop giving bad advice.

I really don't mean to sound like an ass, but you keep doing this and it's not cool.

yep thats all i guess. :P

and !ohh kay!

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I know this is an old topic, but I want to post what I do and give my $1. And when I say compressor, I mean a dedicated compressor, not a limiter. Also, this is again, just how I would do things. I'm

I think one of the main issues I see from newbs is too much of a good thing. That first time you use a phaser, you're going to think its the most awesome thing in the world - PUT PHASER ON EVERYTHING.

By phasing issues, I'm referring to how phase cancellation happens more audibly when you are mixing in mono. If you take two identical sine waves and overlay them spot on (in phase), they will turn ou

well damn, this thread is filled with apparent music nubs and people with hugely overinflated egos (woohoo i got posted on ocremix clearly i am ubermusician)

i liked zircon's post and the post he quoted. they seemed logical. also the mono idea makes sense.

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I make electronic drums.

Aka,usually more than one mixer track for everything.

I made a DnB kit and posted it an a thread on this very forum that was a LOT of tracks. And only like six drum hits.

One per hit, then one that had the kick and snare track to it, another with all the amens routed to it, then all of that to another one, that one went to two that were panned both ways , those two went back into one. I also used about 20 or more effects. This is why I will never switch to another DAW than FL Studio, because this is just about impossible in any other DAW because they don't have (all at the same time) a crazily flexible mixer, playlist and piano roll. Like I keep saying (annoyingly, at that), FL is very good for its flexibility and support for basically any type of workflow you could imagine.

I've never gone into FL studio or Virtual DJ much because I'm more of a real instrument person (please , no offense to electronic and patch-y people. I don't mean "real" as in other people are "fake" musicians; I mean "real" in that I'm just so used to actually strumming on a real guitar or recording my own drum samples on a real drum set because it just takes too long for me to copy-and-paste with patch emulators and loops. I'd like to get better with "electronic" stuff but right now I'm just more used to producing all of my sounds from scratch. don't know if that makes sense...); however, I have played with exporting my semifinal drafts into FL studio and then playing with master track effects for the whole song (I don't know how to explain clearly, but I mean effects like adding some kind of wah/phaser buildup to a climactic part or adding a "telephone/walkie-talkie" eq for breakdown parts).

When you say that FL is very flexible what kind of work do you do with it? Do you plug in a MIDI or do you just create your own beats using the plugins (or do you do something else)? I'm planning on getting a laptop and spending more time with "mobile" recording so since I can't drag all of my instruments around I'd like to get better with cut-and-paste click-y stuff.:sleepdepriv:

and thanks to everyone in regards to the compressor questions; you can close that subject now because I think it's been beaten from every angle already. :<

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When you say that FL is very flexible what kind of work do you do with it? Do you plug in a MIDI or do you just create your own beats using the plugins (or do you do something else)? I'm planning on getting a laptop and spending more time with "mobile" recording so since I can't drag all of my instruments around I'd like to get better with cut-and-paste click-y stuff.:sleepdepriv:

I sequence sampled instruments, I use (and make/modify) synths, I do effects processing, and I record my electric guitar. All in FL Studio.

It's not the greatest for recording, but it's more than doable. I use a mouse because after using it for 5 years, switching to MIDI piano input (and not knowing how to play piano great) would just be the biggest waste of time in my life as it would take 5 more years to be as fast with it as with a mouse. :P

I primarily make different types of electronica music (i've done breakbeat, a little DnB, trance, dance), but FL Studio is really nice with sequencing sampled instruments because of its downright simple piano roll. It's REALLY fast. I acquired Kontakt 4 a few months ago, so I've been writing orchestral and ethnic type songs (mostly sketches, some longer than others) and it's really nice. I don't like commercial DAW's because they only seem to focus on audio recording and don't give much attention to MIDI sequencing.

You seem to misunderstand making music with a mouse. It has nothing to do with copypasta. Copypasta is what FL Studio is commonly associated with because musicians on youtube make songs in rigid block pattern format (4 bar drum pattern, 8 bar melody, 8 bar chords, now loop this 4 times over and add an instrument every time). People see this as cool, so they start doing it. It's not bad, but unless you're making electronica, it kinda defeats the point of dynamic and moving music.

Getting back on topic:

I dislike when people put random notes in for melodies. It just sounds immature.

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One problem I have isn't to do with actually making the music. Its a mentality that I have that if I don't get any feedback (positive or negative) on a wip I get easily discouraged and tend to stop working on the wip. I got to learn to just stay persistent and believe in what I'm doing I guess.

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One problem I have isn't to do with actually making the music. Its a mentality that I have that if I don't get any feedback (positive or negative) on a wip I get easily discouraged and tend to stop working on the wip. I got to learn to just stay persistent and believe in what I'm doing I guess.

Feedback is one of the most valuable things for any artist, so naturally good feedback is also one of the hardest things for him to come by.

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One problem I have isn't to do with actually making the music. Its a mentality that I have that if I don't get any feedback (positive or negative) on a wip I get easily discouraged and tend to stop working on the wip. I got to learn to just stay persistent and believe in what I'm doing I guess.

I just realized it takes ages to get feed back in workshop, cause i have a mix that did not get feedback till the second week, i might as well have subbed it:<

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I just realized it takes ages to get feed back in workshop, cause i have a mix that did not get feedback till the second week, i might as well have subbed it:<

This.

If people aren't in love with a mix, the feedback comes in at such a trickle, which is back-asswards. The people who need the most help should be getting more feedback.

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This.

If people aren't in love with a mix, the feedback comes in at such a trickle, which is back-asswards. The people who need the most help should be getting more feedback.

Gonna quote myself from a while back, when I was analyzing a survey I did on wip feedback and stuff:

...people prefer commenting on remixes of familiar games' sountracks. There are a few of us that choose to critique a remix of an obscure game/soundtreack, and then it's mostly because nobody else has.

Been thinking about what makes ppl comment on a post, and I think there's a few things you can do to attract listeners:

1 - Remix popular sources. ppl are more likely to listen to stuff they're already familiar with. I know this flies in the face of ocr's promotion of exploring vgm you haven't heard before, but it's just how the wip board works.

2 - Make friends. There's more ways to interact with ocr ppl than on the forum. Get in touch with ocr ppl via IM, irc, youtube, facebook, and wherever. ppl will listen to their friends' music. I wouldn't still be making remixes if it wasn't for Willrock and Tensei, and when I see a familiar name on the wip board, I usually check out what they're posting. If I have time. :(

3 - Thread naming. Yeah, it sounds silly, but it does a lot. Nobody is gonna listen to your remix because of it's great and awesome name in the flood of wips; put the source and possibly the genre or something in the thread title. Put the game if it's not one of the top ten or so remixed franchises. Metal tracks attract metal fans, jazz tracks attract jazz fans, classical tracks attract classical fans.

4 - Cross-crit. I mean, give other ppl feedback on their tracks. Some of them might check yours out, and some of those might comment on it.

Then there's stuff like not coming off as being in constant need of appreciation and approval and stuff. There's no-one here to hold your hand every step of the way. If you wanna make music, make music. If you want ppl's approval, show it to your grandparents. If you wanna improve, learn to use your own ears, and use the wip board for the stuff you can't figure out yourself... and, of course, to share your music.

Three things that ppl should do more:

Finish your tracks. It's easy to start a track (I've started several thousands) but hard to finish them (I've finished a few hundred over the years). Finishing your tracks puts you through the whole process, which is enormously helpful when you work on your subsequent tracks.

Talk to ppl. Willrock and I developed our skills together on ocr, sharing a lot of tracks forth and back and getting lots of good feedback from each other. Wip board, AIM, msn, whatever. Get in touch with ppl, whether they're pros or newbs or whatever. The worst that can happen is that they tell you to stop bothering them.

/rambling

short, angry-sounding version:

OCR IS NOT YOUR MUSIC TEACHER, NOT YOUR GRANDMA, AND NOT SOME TICKET TO THE INTERNET FAME YOU THINK YOU'RE ENTITLED TO.

So if you're not happy with the culture of the wip board, start changing it. If you're not getting enough feedback by sitting on your ass waiting, do something.

(this isn't directed at anyone in particular, Modus and the rest of you just managed to bring up my own frustration with the wip board back when i used it more)

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1 - Remix popular sources.

No. I know a lot of games that have mindblowing soundtracks that aren't Mega Man, Chrono Trigger, or Final Fantasy. And yes, it is an obsession with being different and I could care less what people think of that. Plus, like much of OCR, I'm frustrated at the lack of variety.

2 - Make friends. There's more ways to interact with ocr ppl than on the forum.

Yea, good idea. I think I'll jump on IRC.. other than interviewing zircon and posting silly GIFs in the MAGfest thread, I haven't interacted much.

Thread naming.

Alright, I'll add genres to my threads.

Cross-crit. I mean, give other ppl feedback on their tracks. Some of them might check yours out, and some of those might comment on it.

I don't usually feel qualified, but if find a really bad mix I usually hop in because I can give basic advice there.

Then there's stuff like not coming off as being in constant need of appreciation and approval and stuff. There's no-one here to hold your hand every step of the way. If you wanna make music, make music. If you want ppl's approval, show it to your grandparents.

No offense, but I hate this attitude. I believe positive encouragement is one of the most motivating things in the world. Of course, if there's nothing to praise, I wouldn't give any encouragement other than "keep at it" but in 99% of mixes there is definitely something to praise. Most people who give feedback actually do try to give a bit of encouragement, including you, which is why I'm surprised to see you say this.

There's nothing wrong with the need to feel appreciated unless someone is being very overt and obnoxious about it. I haven't found anyone like that here so far.

Finish your tracks.

Yeah, I have 3 finished and 20+ WIPs. I guess it is a common problem.

OCR IS NOT YOUR MUSIC TEACHER, NOT YOUR GRANDMA, AND NOT SOME TICKET TO THE INTERNET FAME YOU THINK YOU'RE ENTITLED TO.

OCR is that uncle who you kind of like as a person but every time you talk to him it ends up an awkward conversation. He also has a huge beard.

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No offense, but I hate this attitude. I believe positive encouragement is one of the most motivating things in the world. Of course, if there's nothing to praise, I wouldn't give any encouragement other than "keep at it" but in 99% of mixes there is definitely something to praise. Most people who give feedback actually do try to give a bit of encouragement, including you, which is why I'm surprised to see you say this.

There's nothing wrong with the need to feel appreciated unless someone is being very overt and obnoxious about it. I haven't found anyone like that here so far.

ppl become addicted to the support they can get from the wip board during its more active times and then get discouraged when they don't get as much feedback (as Vidilian brought up). I've seen ppl post a new wip several times a day because someone pointed something out to them. Relying on other ppl's ears like that is just lazy, and expecting random ppl to hold your hand like that - for free - is actually kind'a rude.

This is yet another reason to make friends - to have someone who'll take the time to listen to your tracks (and whose tracks you should take the time to listen to). If you befriend someone who can teach you stuff, yay!

I'm not saying no to encouragement, I'm saying the wip board turns into a n00bfest if ppl just sit around waiting to be fed appreciation and instructions. A n00bfest is not a good environment to grow as an artist, and not at all a good place for newbs.

A sense of accomplishment for achieved goals (such as completing a track, meeting ocr's standards, getting a track on an album, learning to make a particular synth sound yourself, whatever) is a much better motivator than a virtual pat on the back anyway. :P

OCR is that uncle who you kind of like as a person but every time you talk to him it ends up an awkward conversation. He also has a huge beard.

Should I take this personally? :tomatoface:

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ppl become addicted to the support they can get from the wip board during its more active times and then get discouraged... [more words]

Should I take this personally? :tomatoface:

Yeah, I see wutcha mean. I think I got defensive because I'm guilty of neediness :P still, I've always been an advocate of saying something good about people's work because i know what it's like to create something and have it be completely ignored. Thankfully, I pushed myself through that stage and I'm finally starting to get a small trickle of thumbs up for some of my work now.

You are the OCR uncle to me now and yes I'll be referring to you as Uncle on the boards from now on :<

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OCR is that uncle who you kind of like as a person but every time you talk to him it ends up an awkward conversation. He also has a huge beard.

HA HA HA HA:lmassoff:

Okay Uncles [and Aunts] I have another mixing/production question. By the Way, thanks to everyone for the Compressor advice; I'm actually using all the buttons and knobs now instead of just blasting the Gain and the Attack way up.

My question is about Surround mixing. Two specific problems that bother me is primarily in regards to Bass and Keyboards (or chordal synths). [and I understand that this could also be an opinion thing]

1. (Bass): When I mix/playback a full recording using speakers I typically hear the primary bass fine but if I put on earphones or listen to it in a car the primary bass is weak or overpowered by any other lower frequencies [not sure if that's the right terminology] that I use. I usually have some kind of electronic bass synth sound that I only use for glissandos or crescendos into "climatic" moments and I usually have this mixed into the surround speaker, but I have the bass guitar (or primary bass) mixed in the center speaker (the normal standard) and it is almost always overpowered when the secondary surround bass comes in. besides volume leveling what should I do? I listen to several other songs (by other people) and I don't hear this problem.

2. (Keyboards): similar to bass, I usually have the main keyboard (piano, rhodes, clav, etc.) mixed in the center speaker (or in the left/right depending on whatever sound is countering against it) and I have the choir/pads/organs/strings/broad chordal sounds mixed in the surround however the problem that I experience is that for some reason the EQ changes dramatically as I pull the sounds into the surround speaker (for instance, a typical Timpani roll mixed in the Surround speaker loses almost all of the lows and the mids, but if I put an organ sound in the surround speaker the lows are emphasized and I have to put an extra EQ effect just to mix it back to normal). For most things I usually add effects in this pathway: Equalizer>Delay/Modulation/AmpSimulator/etc.>Surround

Since I always put the surround effect last I don't mind having to go through the extra step of putting another EQ effect after but I wanted to know if any of you have any advice for proper placement within surround mixing.

As a picture reference:

SFX_surround.gif

I usually have the primary bass and main keyboards (and any main sounds like vocals, drumset, guitars, lead synths, etc.) around the "L-C-R" area and I usually have synth basses, pads/choir/strings/chordal synth/etc. in or around the lower area near "S."

I use SONAR but I don't think this is a DAW problem because I never hear these issues in my brother's recordings or others who use SONAR.

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Can't say much about surround, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that your headphones most certainly don't reproduce a surround sound. As for cars, dunno what surround sound support they've got. You can't mix in surround and expect to get the same results from just two speakers.

Also, low frequencies are more difficult to hear the direction they're coming from, so don't pan those much. Losing the bass signal from one of your speakers means you'll have a softer bass. If you pan stuff without regard to how it'll be reproduced with just two speakers, you'll have a lot of problems getting the levels right.

Can't say much else, but I think you're approaching this surround thing wrong.

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Can't say much about surround, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that your headphones most certainly don't reproduce a surround sound. As for cars, dunno what surround sound support they've got. You can't mix in surround and expect to get the same results from just two speakers.

Also, low frequencies are more difficult to hear the direction they're coming from, so don't pan those much. Losing the bass signal from one of your speakers means you'll have a softer bass. If you pan stuff without regard to how it'll be reproduced with just two speakers, you'll have a lot of problems getting the levels right.

Can't say much else, but I think you're approaching this surround thing wrong.

well, I know that different speakers have different sounds but [for example] if I pop in one of my favorite Daft Punk songs I typically get the same general sound throughout (maybe I have to add a bit more bass for my car speakers or my boombox, or I can expect there to be no bass in the laptop speakers, etc.) but for my songs it's like it's always a surprise when I listen in a different vehicle or a different speaker. It's dramatically different.

it's hard to describe (and fix, I guess).

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Once I made the mistake of making a "surround" track instead of a stereo track for a compo.

During the listening party, the "surround" track ended up being lost and muddy and all kinds of stuff. People didn't know what was going on.

This isn't exactly a great story, but I think the point is that you need to know what kind of systems your audience is going to be listening to the song on. If it's a music track, in a digital form like MP3/FLAC, then you can bet 99% that it'll be listened to on a computer or on an iPod. Yeah, maybe someone will listen to your song on their home theatre system but I bet that is the absolute minority.

No. I know a lot of games that have mindblowing soundtracks that aren't Mega Man, Chrono Trigger, or Final Fantasy. And yes, it is an obsession with being different and I could care less what people think of that. Plus, like much of OCR, I'm frustrated at the lack of variety.

As far as the WIP board goes - if you want people to listen to your song, then remix a popular song. Rozovian's comment is specifically addressing getting people to listen to your work. Yeah, there's a lot of songs out there for remixing and a lot of passion and drive to things outside of SNES RPGs, but let's face it, more people are going to listen to your "Schala" remix than your "Hunyun Fei" remix.

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Good lord people, dont put multi bands on instrument.......

Multiband... what? Dude, it's like saying that you shouldn't put frequencies or phase or fft on something. :P

Anything multiband is a process that works with different frequency bands separately. Most commonly eq (boost or cut frequency band x), the word is most commonly used to refer to multiband compressors. A pad could be split into bands, with the upper bands being wide stereo and the lower ones mono. Drums could be compressed in separate bands to prevent the low frequency sounds from interfering with the higher bands' compression. So there's some good applications for multiband processing on single instruments.

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Good lord people, dont put multi bands on instrument.......

*sigh*... again.. explain what the fuck you mean before posting such BS.

Sorry for the language, but I'm getting ridiculously sick and tired of this shit.

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My biggest problem is that people often over use effects. ALL of them. For too many people the immediately think that slapping on some sort of effect on a track will just fix whatever issue they're running into. Whether you're using a soft synth on a track or are recording a live instrument, you need to get that to the point where it's the best it can be before you start messing with effects. That goes for using EQ and compression as well.

This is my general work flow:

1) Sculpt the general sound of a particular track first. If you're using a soft synth, work within that plugin to get it to sit in the mix properly. Make sure it's signal isn't too hot. Somewhere below -8db to -10db. If it's a live instrument, deal with the source first be it guitar, bass, drums, etc. If you're using a mic, try moving it to difficult spots. Make sure the signal going into your preamp isn't too hot.

2) Mix the levels of each track. I might also do some minor panning at this point too.

3) Use High pass and low pass filters so that each track has it's on space in the mix.

4) Compress tracks that need it. This is one of the more difficult things to learn. It really does take practice.

5) At this point I'll start introducing more complex EQ and possiblely some effects.

6) A lot of tweaking goes on now and I'll get a final mix.

7) Here I'll start dealing with master channel effects using compression and maybe some mid-side processing.

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