Sony vs. Everyone - Tales of Exploits, Lawyers, Hackers, and Houseraids

[Thin Crust]

The red eyes.............. the haunting red eyes.......................

¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ʎzɐɹɔ ƃuıoƃ ɯ,ı

[Overdriven]

I DO NOT LIKE SONY. AT ALL. They ruined Sonic Heroes. >(

Their headphones are good, but I'm soon replacing those ANYWAY with better ones.

And Sony has always been annoying and controlling with how they've done stuff. Just look at RE:3 and RE: Code Veronica. Those were title swaps because they essentially blackmailed Capcom into keeping the RE series on their console. Capcom fought back later by going to the Gamecube the next game. They ALSO forced SEGA to reprogram Sonic Heroes IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DEVELOPMENT for a console it was NEVER DESIGNED FOR, thus ruining the game.

I do not like Sony. Never have, never will, until they wake the hell up and realize they can't control everything.

[Thin Crust]

I DO NOT LIKE SONY. AT ALL. They ruined Sonic Heroes. >(

Their headphones are good, but I'm soon replacing those ANYWAY with better ones.

And Sony has always been annoying and controlling with how they've done stuff. Just look at RE:3 and RE: Code Veronica. Those were title swaps because they essentially blackmailed Capcom into keeping the RE series on their console. Capcom fought back later by going to the Gamecube the next game. They ALSO forced SEGA to reprogram Sonic Heroes IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DEVELOPMENT for a console it was NEVER DESIGNED FOR, thus ruining the game.

I do not like Sony. Never have, never will, until they wake the hell up and realize they can't control everything.

You seem really mad over sonic and RE. Have you considered all the good things they have done for their developers and consumers?

[Gollgagh]

I love the hell out of sony's products an will probably continue to buy them regardless of how much of a gigantic asshole they turn out to be

short of them suing me for visiting a site two years ago that might or might not have contained instructions on how to hack a PS3 at one time

I might stop then

[Gario]

You're missing three 'HA's from the first set of 'HAHA's. Don't neglect them, they're important.

[Schwaltzvald]

I love the hell out of sony's products an will probably continue to buy them regardless of how much of a gigantic asshole they turn out to be

short of them suing me

Pretty much sums me up with the added exception of Sony some how ruining my gaming & movie/show viewing experience at any time in the future; which I doubt they will for a long while.

In fact a lot of electronics I've had way back and now had been Sony brand (or RCA, been a while) on account of experienced reliability; even manage to avoid the infamous rootkit incident as I haven't seriously bought a CD in what feels like over a decade looking back.

Also duly noted Gario as I was posting while laughing along with dear Sakuya; couldn't focus enough.

On an semi-unrelated note -

WATCHING THIS SHORT CLIP ON MY GLORIOUS PS3 WITH THE BIG SCREEN FEELS AWESOME.

Gonna transfer some stuff I've been meaning to watch but never got around to them over it.

[The Damned]

I DO NOT LIKE SONY. AT ALL. They ruined Sonic Heroes. >(

You say that like it was ever a good game to begin with. I mean, the track record of Sonic games at that point wasn't exactly stellar, you know.

And Sony has always been annoying and controlling with how they've done stuff. Just look at RE:3 and RE: Code Veronica. Those were title swaps because they essentially blackmailed Capcom into keeping the RE series on their console.

And then Capcom went on to make more RE games for the other systems. They also made other games as well. They're a third-party developer, they don't owe anything to any console. They never have, they never will.

They ALSO forced SEGA to reprogram Sonic Heroes IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DEVELOPMENT for a console it was NEVER DESIGNED FOR, thus ruining the game.

Sega could have said "no", but they didn't. That's as much Sega's fault as it is Sony's. Plus, Nintendo and MS have done the same thing to other developers in the past, so if that kind of action pisses you off, are you also mad at Nintendo and MS? If not, you're pretty much a hypocrite.

I do not like Sony. Never have, never will, until they wake the hell up and realize they can't control everything.

I can't help but get this anti-Sony fanboy vibe from you. I don't really care much either way for them, but come on, they aren't exactly evil. At the risk of Godwining the thread, it's not like Sony helped build computers for the Nazis or anything. They're suing people they think are helping other people download games and causing lost game sales, which is what most consoles live off of. Totally worth getting all up in their grill for, right dawg?

Dickish behavior? Definitely. Worth getting upset over? Maybe to some, but come on, chill out and just enjoy it for the slow-motion train crash it is.

[Brushfire]

I think Sony is doing the right thing.

Now people will stop calling the 360 a bad system.

[The Damned]

When the losers outnumber the winners, they become the winners by majority!

[Brushfire]

When the losers outnumber the winners, they become the winners by majority!

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

I think Sony is doing the right thing.

Now people will stop calling the 360 a bad system.

::rimshot:

[Brushfire]

http://vghq.net/2011/03/23/george-hotz-runs-away-to-south-america-lies-about-having-psn-account/

[Schwaltzvald]

http://vghq.net/2011/03/23/george-hotz-runs-away-to-south-america-lies-about-having-psn-account/

If that guy actually ran towards south of the border...

To those that actually sent cash to the guy, this pretty much sums up my thoughts.

[Crowbar Man]

geohotz is simply on a (previously planned before this fiasco) vacation. A lot of people are spreading this as "hes fled the country" because it sounds sensational. And probably beause Sony wants it to sound that way. Not the truth

Heres some better quotes:

"The 'integral components' SCEA is talking about are stock controller cards, not the hard drives themselves," Kellar told IGN in an e-mail. "The neutral subsequently had to explain to SCEA the form and function of hard drive controller cards. Those controller cards have since been provided to the neutral so the point is moot."

Kellar also states Hotz is using the donation money he received for the lawsuit only and will donate any leftover funds after the case has been resolved.

"You can never take a vacation from a lawsuit. Mr. Hotz has had to make himself available 24/7 for this litigation, which has been quite demanding on him," he said. "You have to remember that Mr. Hotz didn't choose to fight this battle, but now that he has been sued, he has put his heart into fighting this case that has enormous implications for consumers world-wide."

"As for any question as to whether Mr. Hotz has used donation money to take a trip to South America, that's pretty silly. Litigating against a massive company like Sony, who is represented by five attorneys, is very costly for a 21-year-old," Kellar added. "The donation money George has received is being used exclusively for his legal defense. If there are any funds left after the lawsuit, George is planning to donate the money to the EFF [Electronic Frontier Foundation]."

Also, I highly doubt that account is his. People have pointed out the geotag on the image posted in this thread by some RANDOM guy Sony is using as 'evidence' , belongs to somewhere in Cambridge, MA. And I dont think his claim to fame is unlocking random dumbphones.

Edit: More quotes:

Stewart Kellar, Hotz’s attorney, said the issue is overblown.

“They didn’t have the controller card attached. That’s it,” Kellar said in a telephone interview Wednesday from his San Francisco office.

He said that Hotz has since turned over the cards, solving the problem.

Sony did not respond for comment.

Hotz, who is also well-known in iPhone hacking circles, so far is fighting the case on jurisdictional grounds, and maintains he should be sued in New Jersey instead of California.

As part of that battle, Sony claimed that it uncovered evidence that Hotz maintained an account on Sony’s PlayStation Network, which is based in Northern California. Hotz had denied holding a PSN account.

In its filing, Sony also pointed out that Hotz has left the country.

“Hotz conveniently traveled to South America in the midst of jurisdictional discovery, including his court-ordered deposition,” Sony said.

“I don’t want to comment on that stuff,” Kellar said. “He has done nothing to make himself unavailable.”

Apparently, I have fled the country. ROFL

Factually, it's true I'm in South America, on a vacation I've had planned and paid for since November. I mean, it is Spring break; hacking isn't my life. Rest assured that not a dime of legal defense money would ever go toward something like this. And of course Townsend loves the idea of painting me as an international fugitive. I have been in contact with my lawyers almost every day; I would not let the case suffer. That said, I also won't let this ridiculous lawsuit run my life either. Then the fearmongerers win.

I will be back, I hear it's hard to come by the Xperia Play down here.

[Brushfire]

The Yin

To my yang.

[Jenga]

man i hope people give me money so i can fuck off to south america one day too

[Crowbar Man]

As stated, vacation was paid for back in November. None of the donated legal funds went to it. Besides, the ginormous ammount of the legal costs pale in comparison to a vacation.

[The Damned]

EVERYONE! Listen to Sony's legal team instead of the guy they're suing! There's no way a big corporate team would lie or twist the truth to make someone they're suing look bad, right!?

[Crowbar Man]

Lawyers for Geohot object to much of Sony's recent "evidence," especially the allegation that Hotz registered a PSN account under the name "blickmaniac." They point to a post on the PS3Hax forum from someone claiming to be the owner of the account, as well as a well-known hardware hacker named Bob Blick.

I'm not sure why Sony gets to lie to the court so much. Really at this point, if your on Sony's side, I don't know what to say. Sony is just flat out lying and desperately grabbing random things from the internet as "facts". I dont even know how what they are doing is even legal

A good read:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110327185437805

The message that Sony Computer Entertainment America ("SCEA") is conveying to George Hotz ("Mr. Hotz") and the public is of great consequence. SCEA advocates and encourages the Court to accept that simply by connecting to the Internet, you are consenting to jurisdiction anywhere in the world. SCEA has taken advantage of these unfamiliar concepts in order to present the Court with misleading sets of facts and affidavits.

Mr. Hotz is a 21-year-old individual who resides in New Jersey. He is not a multinational company, or even a company at all--he is just one person. He did not profit from his actions in question and he did not sell any circumvention devices. He is however, known for being a prodigy in the computer programming field. Mr. Hotz's actions which gave rise to the controversy are simple: (1) Mr. Hotz published code he independent created (“Code”)(2) Mr. Hotz used the Code on his Playstation Computer, and (3) Mr. Hotz posted his findings on his personal blog.

SCEA filed this action, claiming jurisdiction over Mr. Hotz is proper in California. SCEA then flooded the docket with affidavits from its lawyers and employees, offering ambiguous and misleading information. SCEA then indicated that it would undoubtedly confirm that jurisdiction in California is proper for Mr. Hotz through jurisdictional discovery. Now, after Mr. Hotz's computer hard drives, and a graphing calculator have been impounded, and Mr. Hotz' discovery responses have been timely submitted, SCEA still is unable to present evidence to refute the jurisdictional challenges asserted by Mr. Hotz. Instead, SCEA has only continued to flood the docket with dubious information, such as irrelevant hearsay blog postings filed under seal, and misleading affidavits from enigmatic employees with no explanations of the source of their personal knowledge.

[The Damned]

So... Sony legal department business as usual, then.

[Brushfire]

So... Sony legal department business as usual, then.

Oh Sony, you Wife-beaten Drunk.

[JackKieser]

So, apparently Sony is being taken on by the Anons now. It seems that PSN has been having some trouble lately, and the Anons might be responsible. A lot of people are complaining that the Anons are "punishing" innocent end-users, instead of punishing Sony.

What those people are missing is that for as much as us forum goers and lurkers know about this case, a LOT of the general public still doesn't know what's going on; it's not like it's a top story on CNN or anything. This PSN takedown is just as much to rile up the masses and incite them into looking up information as it is to hurt Sony financially. After all, if even .1% of PSN's total membership go looking online as to why their PSN isn't working and find a news article about GeoHot, that's 69,000 people who are now informed.

Besides, if your consumer rights and the ability to own what you buy isn't worth one day of losing the ability to play CoD online, then you probably don't deserve either, to be frank.

[Thin Crust]

I was waiting for someone to post this.

And you are wrong. You own the hardware, not the software. Every time you click that "I AGREE" button, you forfeit your right to modify the system to do anything other than what it was intended to do. It's a contract and even if only homebrew is your goal, you violated it.

[Schwaltzvald]

So, apparently Sony is being taken on by the Anons now. It seems that PSN has been having some trouble lately, and the Anons might be responsible. A lot of people are complaining that the Anons are "punishing" innocent end-users, instead of punishing Sony.

What those people are missing is that for as much as us forum goers and lurkers know about this case, a LOT of the general public still doesn't know what's going on; it's not like it's a top story on CNN or anything. This PSN takedown is just as much to rile up the masses and incite them into looking up information as it is to hurt Sony financially. After all, if even .1% of PSN's total membership go looking online as to why their PSN isn't working and find a news article about GeoHot, that's 69,000 people who are now informed.

Besides, if your consumer rights and the ability to own what you buy isn't worth one day of losing the ability to play CoD online, then you probably don't deserve either, to be frank.

Don't people have to be willing to give up that time off of Call of Dicks to actually make it meaningful to themselves? As much as I enjoy Anon's actions, attacking the regular users experience rather than the actual company is not doing themselves nor Hotz any favors in the end. Most of the said mass don't even give a shit about losing the option to install Other OS to begin with. For those that do, they most likely have something better suited for their interests with the PS3 being a sort of afterthought.

Seriously I'm probably the only person within a ten mile radius of where I live that actually noticed what's going on in regards to Sony taking Other OS away. Sony has to take away a feature that is actually meaningful to the masses, such as freely playing any Blu-ray disc that was bought or made, versus something that's embraced by a niche group. Only then will it become scandalized and a bigger, fatter festering cyst on Sony's public face.

I'll say it again.

Sony has to take away a feature that is actually meaningful to the masses, such as freely playing any Blu-ray disc that was bought or made, versus something that's embraced by a niche group. Only then will it become scandalized and a bigger, fatter festering cyst on Sony's public face.

Sony's got enough issues regarding their image with their past blunders, what's happening now could only serve to make Sony look like the victim to the regular, generally-speaking casual gamers.

Generally the moderate message I'm reading which I can agree whole-heartedly is --

What you do not own however are the software libraries, the source code, etc. Essentially the non physical side of the product, and attempting to access this, or even worse distributing the information you have gained, over the internet, is a clear breech of Sony's Intellectual property, no doubt violating a number of patents in the process.

Sony have no option but to protect their products

Is there something wrong with that or difficult to understand?

All the more reason I remember telling Crowbar on a short IRC conversation in minecraft channel; "Had some one actually found a way that did not initiate all this bullshit and have Other OS implemented that would have not drawn attention or ire we would see ridiculous comments from the peanut gallery of the Internet as well as see the notorious strong arming Sony lawyers are pulling?"

Not the exact wording but the idea is there.

EDIT: dam Thin Crust beat me but hell I'm content with this post

[Brushfire]

But Black Dynamite, I used Linux on my PS3!