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They also said "this level design isn't interesting enough," which I can only assume means they didn't actually play any levels.

I stayed up late practicing a time attack for the first level. Mirby's still better than me :'(

Yeah I don't understand that at all. Especially with the

. And the fire one in the same world. And the one with all the horns playing you ride around on(and in). And the music is spectacular as you'd expect from Wise. Edited by Cecilff2
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That is a terrible life choice.

Considering Nintendo is chasing away everyone that isnt Nintendo.

I hardly think it's Nintendo's fault when devs release gimped versions of their software on the system and then wonder why the Wii U version doesn't sell as well.

Plus indie devs are quite keen on the system even when big-name devs shy away.

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I hardly think it's Nintendo's fault when devs release gimped versions of their software on the system and then wonder why the Wii U version doesn't sell as well.

So you are saying that it is not Nintendo's fault that they put out a system that is under-powered? Devs are doing Nintendo a service by even trying to put out a gimped version, and Nintendo refuses to take suggestions on how to make their own system better.

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The system is hardly underpowered, and blaming Nintendo for devs not using it to its full potential is like blaming an abuse victim for being abused. It's not the fault of the abuser at all, the victim deserves to be punished for whatever.

And remember, they have taken suggestions. Why do you think they're pumping money into R&D, why do you think they're working on proving the potential of the system with upcoming titles (such as the NFC ones to be shown at E3). The system itself, functionally, is no different from a DS. If that system had as much shovelware as it did, including some devs using it quite uniquely (as seen in games like The World Ends With You) why can't they figure out how to do the same with the GamePad?

They're always blaming the GamePad or weak specs but do nothing about it, while indie devs embrace whatever limitations the system may possess and thrive within it. Nintendo doesn't deserve a service that shows half-assed efforts by devs who really don't want to support the system and only do so to say they did, and then pull support when their inferior versions don't sell as well as the full-featured ones. We're lucky that CoD: Ghosts just got the Free Fall map on Wii U, considering other devs that pull all DLC (as seen in Arkham Origins) or don't even offer it for the system (as seen in AC4).

There's no reason the system can't handle the full versions of these games. Devs just don't want to put in any effort, and that's hardly Nintendo's fault. The system is anything but underpowered, and any claims that it is are just excuses so no work has to be put in to releasing a game as full-featured on Wii U as it is on other platforms.

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The system is anything but underpowered

Its been known for a while the CPU is a weakpoint for the Wii U. It actually may not have had much dev support problem if the CPU was on par with the 360's. Its obviously easier to program than PS3's CPU, but doesn't have the power of the 360's CPU, so you have something thats kinda low end to middle road compared to PS3/360 (last generation), only nobody has made support tools for Wii U so it takes a whole new toolchain to support it... without sales of a large install base, publishers aren't going to bother. GPU wise though, Wii U has plenty of muscle compared to 360/PS3, but obviously falls short of XBO/PS4. All Nintendo had to do was make a machine that could run 360/PS3 level games/code without effort, and the Wii U falls short of that.

So I'd have to say its mostly Nintendo's fault, for that, and a few other reasions: Apparently the SDK they provided was really bad, and had very sluggish compile times which made quickly testing things impossible. It doesn't seem like they even had an English support team for devs in need of help, most questions had to be sent in to the Japanese office, which were delayed by translation times, one dev said it could take a few weeks to get an answer back :/ All these practices are super archaic. Nintendo clearly had their head bloated thinking they would easily have another Wii on their hand.

So yeah... if devs just sucked it up, dealt with all the bad hardware/software, and figured stuff out the best they could, they could of pulled out better stuff on the Wii U, after all, devs put up with the PS2 and the PS3, both terrible platforms to dev for... but when its sales are tanking due to, again, Nintendo failing to properly promote their console, and Nintendo themselves not even putting many titles on their own unit.. why bother?

1) Weak hardware

2) Bad SDK

3) Bad support

4) Bad promotion / sales

5) Weak 1st party support <- This one is slowly being fixed, but man its taking forever

Everything unfortunately boils down to Nintendo's fault :/

Its not all doom and gloom, but 3rd parties are better off on the PS4/XBO where its almost effortless to make games, and the PS4 has already sold more than Wii U has in its year+ of being around (XBO is still trailing but its getting there pretty fast), or just sticking with the MASSIVE install bases of 360/PS3, using seasoned toolchains already available.

The only one that can turn this around, as I've mentioned multiple times, is Nintendo. If there were heaps of Wii U's being sold, it would be worth it for 3rd parties to put the effort in. But the lack of even Nintendo title's on a Nintendo console has been so far its downfall... this year determines whether the console sinks or starts swimming with Mario Kart and Smash on its way. (I'm getting super hyped for Kart!)

Also, while I absolutely love indie games, Indie games are usually not often as hardware demanding as AAA big budget games. Horsepower isn't important to them in the long run. Indies are also not generally profit driven like megacorps. They do stuff because they either just want to (Retro City Rampage on the WiiWare for example, VBlank made that version knowing it was a money sink, just for Nintendo fans), or they feel like it'll spread their game/name further.

Indies and megacorp publishers are night and day. Its kinda the point

Edited by Crowbar Man
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***[Wii U on the cheap]***

Nintendo is selling refurb Wii U Deluxe 32GB models, with Nintendo Land, for only $200, and comes with a 1 year warranty.

Pretty awesome deal if you were on the fence about the Wii U because of its price

hey remember when [nintendo console] wasn't doing well and everyone constantly proselytized about how this was the end for nintendo

Not sure who you were referring to, but anybody doing that is a goofball. Nintendo will be fine even if the Wii U never recovers. They have their backstock of money from all their other successes (DS, Wii), and the #1 hardware platform right now (3DS) so they are far from trouble. The only people who continue to predict the "End of Nintendo" are fanboys usually wishing for their games to come to their console of choice.

That aside, it doesn't change the current discussion that Wii U is a poor choice if your looking for 3rd party software right now, and probably wont ever be a place for it.

Awesome choice for 1st party Nintendo stuff though :) Well... as soon as they release more games at least. I'm happy with what they've done so far

Notice how none of this discussion ever is aimed at the Vita, which is arguably in the same position as the Wii U

Well, this is a Wii U thread not a Vita thread, not to mention they aren't the same category of device, so not sure why the conversation would go that route... but if you insist:

Vita has a few problems, including some the Wii U shares (lack of 1st party games, weak 3rd party support) but.. it is currently outselling Wii U in weekly (and total) sales :/

Its "no games" situation is fixing itself faster than Wii U's as well and makes a good complimentary device to the PS4 (including duplicating one of Wii U GamePad's functionality, only doing it better, on top of being a convenient portable device).

Vita has many pros too for the dev side: It has strong hardware that is easy to dev for. It also uses a hardware platform similar to many mobile devices on the market, and I'm sure Sony has a nice SDK for it. It currently has a lot higher chance of 3rd party support than Wii U right now. Its main problem is people just want to dump PS3 ports on it and call it a day and that makes it rather boring. It has some pretty interesting titles when people try though (Gravity Rush, Tearaway, Soul Sacrifice, etc)). Free games with PS+ is also awesome.

It's major downfall was those required BS proprietary expensive memory cards, the system would of done a whole lot better if they stuck with Memory Stick, internal flash, and/or SD. At least the new models fixed that partially (1GB (i think?) internal isn't much, comes with a 8GB card in the new bundle at least). But they swapped out the OLED with an LCD, with the usual Sony "downgrade hardware to make up costs" style.

But its not currently "cool" to hate on Sony right now so anything related will get a free pass unless you are some of those XBO fans. In the handheld arena though, 3DS is the clear winner by a landslide (this took a major price drop and Nintendo constantly pumping out software to turn around though.) The Vita is mostly now just a curiosity

Edited by Crowbar Man
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Nintendo isnt doomed, not by a long shot. I am saying that buying a Nintendo non-handheld system for third party games is sheer lunacy.

Since Nintendo doesn't like others in their sandbox.

other people don't like being in nintendo's sandbox

because they get bodied

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Does anybody else realize that we have been through the same Nintendo-doomed-no-they're-not-yes-they-are argument like five or six times already, in this thread alone?

I don't think anybody has said much of that in this entire thread, let alone any of the last posts (except for the sudden posts about it right now seemingly in response to nobody). Why is everybody bringing this up? Did I miss a doom and gloomer Nintendo is failing post somewhere?

Edited by Crowbar Man
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