Consolidating Pokémon games by generation?

[pokemoneinstein]

Anyone familiar with Pokémon knows that every new game is released in two versions, with a third following shortly afterwards. Games like Red, Blue, and Yellow; Gold, Silver, and Crystal; Ruby, Sapphire Emerald, etc. are essentially the same games. But when you search for Pokémon here on the site, they show up separately. Why that's important for OCR is because they have the same soundtracks, so listing them as separate games only splits up songs that should all be listed in the same place. It's a problem the way it is, for example, because Pokémon Red is listed with 10 ReMixes, while Blue is listed with 1. Pokémon Gold is listed with 6, while Silver and Crystal are each listed with one.

Why not consolidate them to be listed as, rather than "Pokémon Red," "Pokémon Blue," "Pokémon Yellow," we list them as "Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow," "Pokémon Gold, Silver, and Crystal" etc? That way, "Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow" would be shown to have 11 ReMixes. "Pokémon Gold, Silver, and Crystal" would be shown with 8. Everything would be a lot smoother.

And obviously, the change would apply to RSE, DPP, and BW (Whenever someone remixes a song from them)

And while we're on the subject of Pokémon, why exactly is a TV season listed as a game? Just curious.

[The Damned]

There were episodes of the anime sold as GBA carts, as well as other shows. That might explain it.

As for the RBY thing, it makes sense, but it's limited by the fact that the third versions of each generation (Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum) have music made specifically for them and isn't found in the previous games.

So, really, it should be Red and Blue, Gold and Silver, Ruby and Sapphire, Diamond and Pearl, and then Black and White. Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and Platinum (and then whatever any third version would be later on) should be separate, provided that the remix is based upon any of the version-exclusive music. Otherwise, it goes under the coupled titles.

[pokemoneinstein]

That's a good point. We should make sure, though, that remixes of songs exclusive to the third game are the ONLY ones listed under the third game.

[Melbu Frahma]

This is something that's been bugging me ever since I noticed, while doing remixes for the remix drive last month, that one of the Pokemon remixes I reviewed - I think it was Argent Vexemon, although don't hold me to that - was listed as Silver in one place and Gold in another. I like the solution posed by the Damned though.

[Chernabogue]

I like The Damned's solution. It seems very logical.

[Liontamer]

Each of these titles were sold separately, so I'd rather they stay separate.

[WillRock]

Each of these titles were sold separately, so I'd rather they stay seperate.

Question - why is it necessary to actually have both games in the database? Why not just put 1st gen remixes (bar yellow exclusive tracks) to pokemon red, and leave Pokemon blue alone? Yes, if people look for pokemon blue, it might need a re-directing or suggestion feature perhaps, but that can't be helped anyway if half the remixes are in one, and half in the other. As it stands right now, there is a small chance a newcomer might come to OCR, look up pokemon blue, and see Blue Haze as the only remix from that game. They will probably not think to look for red afterwards, because the games are basically the same, and thus miss out on quite a few remixes that are from the pokemon red page. Its a flawed system right now for those not in the know.

You don't see half the Link's Awakening Remixes in the original, and the other half in on a Link's Awakening DX page. If there is no incentive to put them together in the database, at least put all the remixes into one game if you won't delete one of the pages, just to keep things simple.

[Liontamer]

As it stands right now, there is a small chance a newcomer might come to OCR, look up pokemon blue, and see Blue Haze as the only remix from that game. They will probably not think to look for red afterwards, because the games are basically the same, and thus miss out on quite a few remixes that are from the pokemon red page. Its a flawed system right now for those not in the know.

It's not my call, but this seems pretty negligible. Most people would look up "Pokemon," not drill down to Pokemon Blue.

You don't see half the Link's Awakening Remixes in the original, and the other half in on a Link's Awakening DX page.

If someone was specifically inspired by the DX version, their remix would be associated with LA: DX as the game, but the source tune in the database would be associated with the original LA. So we acknowledge the game being honored, but respect where the source tune originally came from as well when the same song is used the same way across a couple of different games.

If there is no incentive to put them together in the database, at least put all the remixes into one game if you won't delete one of the pages, just to keep things simple.

http://ocremix.org/game/508/pokemon-red-version-gb/remixes

All of the songs are listed as the first Pokemon game in the pair, in that case, Red. For the core Pokemon games, that means all the mixes for a particular generation would be found with Red, Gold, Ruby, Diamond, and Black. Just my opinion, but that seems to cover it just fine.

[pokemoneinstein]

All of the songs are listed as the first Pokemon game in the pair, in that case, Red. For the core Pokemon games, that means all the mixes for a particular generation would be found with Red, Gold, Ruby, Diamond, and Black. Just my opinion, but that seems to cover it just fine.

That's just not true. Blue has 1 remix, Silver has 1 remix, Sapphire has 1 remix, and Crystal has 1 remix (whose sources all originate in Gold/Silver).

[Liontamer]

Let me clarify. All of the source tunes (referred to in the database as "songs") are associated with the first game in their generation.

http://ocremix.org/game/508/pokemon-red-version-gb/remixes

http://ocremix.org/game/641/pokemon-gold-version-gbc/remixes

http://ocremix.org/game/673/pokemon-ruby-version-gba/remixes

http://ocremix.org/game/635/pokemon-diamond-version-nds/remixes

However, the ReMixes have different game assignments depending on what info we were given from the submitting artists as to which specific game was being tributed.

I understand what y'all are getting at, as far as consolidating the games. But most sites referencing these games, while acknowledging their pairs, treat them as distinct entities, so I don't see a big benefit for combining the game entries or labeling everything as one game entry per generation. I'm not the final say, but it's a franchise quirk I can live with, and it doesn't really impede the average person finding Pokemon mixes at a broad level.

[djpretzel]

What we really need, rather than merging game entries, is a way of establishing game equivalence, such that a mix of one game always counts as a mix of the other, if the soundtrack is identical.

The mixcount for Red should be the same as the mixcount for Blue, right? And it isn't, and that seems to be the real problem, in my mind...

[Liontamer]

What we really need, rather than merging game entries, is a way of establishing game equivalence, such that a mix of one game always counts as a mix of the other, if the soundtrack is identical.

The mixcount for Red should be the same as the mixcount for Blue, right? And it isn't, and that seems to be the real problem, in my mind...

Exactly. Another one for the to-do list.

[Rozovian]

Seems like my insistence on attributing Blue Haze and Spume to Pokémon Blue is doing its job of raising this issue.

My solution for this would be to make games list everything made for the sources in those games, not just those attributed to that game, e.g.:

Pachelbel's Canon would be listed under OoT normally, but also under ALttP, below the mixes attributed to OoT by the remixer. On the page of the source song, the remixes would be listed with the game they were attributed to, and there'd be a list of games in which the song is used, in this case including OoT, ALttP, and others.

Blue Haze would then end up on both Red's and Blue's remix lists of remixes (Blue mixes further down on Red's page and vice versa), but when looking up the song itself, it'd be attributed to Blue, while PromoToed's mix would be attributed to Red. Both Red and Blue (and Yellow as well? idunno) would be listed as games that use that song.

Dunno if this is overcomplicating, but it's what I'd like to see so ppl can stop thinking Zelda's Theme was invented in OoT when it was used in ALttP first.

[pokemoneinstein]

What we really need, rather than merging game entries, is a way of establishing game equivalence, such that a mix of one game always counts as a mix of the other, if the soundtrack is identical.

The mixcount for Red should be the same as the mixcount for Blue, right? And it isn't, and that seems to be the real problem, in my mind...

Either this or the solution proposed by The Damned should be implemented. They both work fine, as long as the system isn't set up in the somewhat-confusing way it is, now. Assuming I understand them correctly, Rozovian's thoughts would be ideal.

On a similar note, in addition to listing remixes on both games, "related remixes" would be a great solution to this and the problem Rozovian brings up. When on the page for that remix, it could suggest related remixes, using songs from the same game, as well as other remixes of the same source. Most importantly, it would included remixes of remixes of the source. Take the invincibility theme from the original Super Mario Bros, for example. When viewing a remix, it would not only suggest other remixes of that song and remixes of other songs from the original SMB, but it would also show remixes of the invincibility theme from Super Mario 64 (which, itself, is a remix of that from the original NES game). Anyway, I feel like I've done a terrible job explaining what I'm trying to say. Do you guys understand me, or should I make it clearer?