OCR Mascot Bios - 20 more up for grabs!

[Dafydd]

Plus, New Vegas isn't really Fallout 4, it's its own, weird, thing. Kinda like Majora's Mask.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Dafydd

[Jean Of mArc]

http://ocremix.org/info/OCR_Mascot_060

Diddy Kong is also in "Super Smash Bros. Brawl" and "Donkey Kong Country Retruns" for the Wii.

[Mirby]

http://ocremix.org/info/OCR_Mascot_060

Diddy Kong is also in "Super Smash Bros. Brawl" and "Donkey Kong Country Retruns" for the Wii.

They usually don't update Mascot Bios with games after the bio was written, just so you know.

That said, I'm wondering... when are more mascots gonna be added?

[Darklink42]

They usually don't update Mascot Bios with games after the bio was written, just so you know.

That said, I'm wondering... when are more mascots gonna be added?

It's usually whenever DJPretzel gets the urge to add a few more, so it could be a very short wait or a very long one.

[Dafydd]

They usually don't update Mascot Bios with games after the bio was written, just so you know.

We do (or at least, we'd like to), but only if someone tips us off, and the bio has very few games listed, or there are ReMixed games on the site not already in the list. From the mascot bio project page:

Each mascot has a list of appearances. We initially wanted to list every game that a character appears in, but for some characters (e.g. Mario), the list got ridiculously long, and so we had to settle for the following:

• all games that this character appears in, with ReMixes on this site, are listed. If we missed any, tell us.
  
• some characters have been in very few or none of the games that have ReMixes on this site. In those cases, we have added a few games to their lists for reference.
  

We'd like to keep the appearances lists up to date so that, for e.g. Diddy Kong, the appearance list lists all of the games featuring Diddy Kong that have ReMixes on the site. Naturally, we don't check every time a ReMix is posted on the front page whether it's the first ReMix of a game that features any of the 160-something mascots, but if you or anyone else notices any games on OCReMix missing from the game list of any mascot bio that should have that game listed, or if you know of any games featuring a mascot with very few games in its appearances list, you are most welcome to tell us so we can update the list.

The bios themselves, however, we have decided to leave as is, as they were never meant to be up to date in the first place.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Dafydd

[Mirby]

Well I did say usually...

[Dafydd]

Haha, in that case, I'd say it's closer to never than not usually. But again, it's not because we don't want to, it's because we're not aware there are updates to be made.

[djpretzel]

I've got an important announcement regarding mascots:

1. We will soon be taking steps to remove certain site mascots from Square Enix, totaling around ~32.
   
2. I want to stress that this is something we willingly agreed to do; while I explained the hard work and creativity that went into the bios for these, the copyright owner is concerned about their usage - as is their right - and we are complying with their wishes.
   
3. The affected mascot BIOS themselves can remain online, sans art. I know that without the link from the right corner, they won't get much of a spotlight, but at least your work will remain online.
   
4. Temporarily, the mascot images will be replaced with a single mascot, Mega Man X, and we will update the redirects to all point to his bio.
   
5. Going forward we will not be adding any new SE mascots.
   
6. We will need to find some new mascots! Super Meat Boy is a lock, but we'll do a thread soon in the main Community forum to see about some others.
   
7. As always, I want to thank everyone for their hard work on this project AND for your understanding as to why this step is something that, while we wouldn't make in vacuum, is a respectful response to a reasonable request from the copyright owners.
   

We can't answer "why" questions or provide any additional information, but if you've got questions about logistics moving FORWARD, please let me know.

[Dafydd]

That's a shame, but I'm sure you did your best. I appreciate the heads-up, and look forward to seeing a new set of mascots to fill out the void. It's been too long since any new ones were added.

I don't wish to protest in any way, but I am curious as to what their concern was, exactly - whether it was the usage of their copyrighted images as such, or the way in which they were used (a question of clarification, rather than additional information, I would think). Not that it matters, really - like I said, I'm sure you did your best, and that if there was anything you/we could have done to keep the images (or other solutions, such as other images portraying the same mascots), you would have done it/asked us to do it. I would like to know, however, if there's anything we can do to avoid something similar from happening again.

Also, the mascotless bios should probably contain some kind of message explaining why they're no longer available, to avoid rumors and rage, however unlikely (hey, this is the internet). I would like some help in writing that message to ensure it doesn't sound wrong.

Good thing their issue was with the mascots and not the ReMixes.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Dafydd

[djpretzel]

Dafydd - Thanks for being understanding.

We can't discus specific details of our interactions, but know that I will ALWAYS do my best to represent the contributions of all artists, staff, and members of the community. Speaking in generalities, many companies consider their characters an extension of their branding, and want to avoid any misconstrued endorsement or sense of something being "official" that could be perceived. While my personal belief is that fan use of artwork in this context only serves to popularize these characters and their worlds - free advertising, in a sense - I acknowledge that my personal opinion matters less than the copyright owner's wishes. While it's an interesting line of discussion, we're limited in what we can disclose, and I'd prefer that we focus on moving forward.

As a side note, for the existing mascot pages, one solution might be employing fan art. We wouldn't reinstate the fan art in the upper right hand corner, but it could liven up the pages themselves. We need to work on a basic boilerplate licensing agreement that we can use for fan art - I think we need to start exploring more synergy between the VG fan arrangement & VG fan art communities in general, and this is a good catalyst.

[Darklink42]

As a side note, for the existing mascot pages, one solution might be employing fan art. We wouldn't reinstate the fan art in the upper right hand corner, but it could liven up the pages themselves. We need to work on a basic boilerplate licensing agreement that we can use for fan art - I think we need to start exploring more synergy between the VG fan arrangement & VG fan art communities in general, and this is a good catalyst.

I actually had the same thought, just wasn't sure about the logistics of implementation. I'm also sorry to hear that we had to pull so many images, but I'm glad that they let the bios remain. There's a lot of good writing there, and after helping with the editing, it would be a shame to see them go. That being said, I'll be glad to help with writing new bios for mascots, and/or editing.

Thanks for being up front about it in so far as you could be DJP, and for doing your best to salvage/explain the situation with SE and with us.

[Polo]

1) Thanks for sticking up for our hard work and letting the bios stay online.

2) The Scrooge McDuck image we have now is technically fan art, not found in any instruction manual or game promo. (Drawn by Don Rosa.) We can change the "Pictured from" bit to "Fan art by: (artist)" for him and potential other cases. Is that a fair workaround?

3) Is Geno staying or going? He was created by Square and debuted in a game created by two companies just like Sora, who's gone.

[Dafydd]

Speaking in generalities, many companies consider their characters an extension of their branding, and want to avoid any misconstrued endorsement or sense of something being "official" that could be perceived.

Fair enough - I believe that's the answer I was looking for.

I acknowledge that my personal opinion matters less than the copyright owner's wishes.

Again, no argument there!

As a side note, for the existing mascot pages, one solution might be employing fan art. We wouldn't reinstate the fan art in the upper right hand corner, but it could liven up the pages themselves.

If you think we could do that without getting in trouble again, I'm all for it! I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to help finding fan artwork, or make some.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Dafydd

[Mirby]

3) Is Geno staying or going? He was created by Square and debuted in a game created by two companies just like Sora, who's gone.

Considering that Geno reappeared in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga and that SE was credited for use of that character, it's an SE copyright so he will be going. Geno (and any other original SMRPG characters like Booster or Mallow) belong to SE.

[RECKENEFIN]

I think that fan art would be a good idea, even as a link in the top-right corner. It would avoid the copyright issues of using official artwork, and it would make the mascot section even more community-based. Plus, if someone is making artwork specifically for the mascot section, it could be tailored for the forum's purposes (no cut, paste, and edit markings and the like).

It would be a lot of work, but it might pay off to switch to fan art for all of our mascots, just to avoid any further copyright issues down the road. Having mascot art submissions and posting could also be fun for the more artistic, less musical members of the community. Not that I'm in either category.

My two cents. For what it's worth.

[The Coop]

Sorry to hear about all the work that got taken out of the spotlight. That sucks after all the work that was done.

[Dj Mokram]

the copyright owner is concerned about their usage - as is their right - and we are complying with their wishes.

By this logic, will all SE avatars be removed as well? (seeing as they're basically sprites/art from the games)

[Dafydd]

By this logic, will all SE avatars be removed as well? (seeing as they're basically sprites/art from the games)

Good question. I think (though I could be mistaken) the issue was with using mascots images in a way that made it seem like this was somehow official or affiliated with SE in any way - we broke the 3rd commandment, so to speak. I don't think the risks are very high anyone will take a forum member for an SE affiliate just because they have an SE sprite as their forum avatar, though it's still technically a copyright breach, if SE sees it that way. It's a discussion that doesn't really belong in this thread, though.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Dafydd

[Unununium]

Considering that Geno reappeared in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga and that SE was credited for use of that character, it's an SE copyright so he will be going. Geno (and any other original SMRPG characters like Booster or Mallow) belong to SE.

I notice Geno is still there, so either it's an oversight or copyright isn't the entirety of the issue, that is to say, the sole criterion.

[Gario]

I notice Geno is still there, so either it's an oversight or copyright isn't the entirety of the issue, that is to say, the sole criterion.

That's probably an oversight, actually. Hopefully those that are responsible for taking the Square images down become aware of it and remove that one, as well.

As for avatars, if DjP doesn't remove them as options from the site then it's likely that they're not causing any problem, so I wouldn't worry about them. I'm not in the know on that, though, so take that with a grain of salt.

[DarkeSword]

Need to bump this to the top.

[Cash]

This is a question, not specifically an issue to be fixed.

On the Vault Boy mascot page, the bottom of the page indicates that the database doesn't list any remixes for the Xbox 360 version of Fallout 3.

I'm curious, any reason why the remix wasn't listed under both versions of the game? Is this the appropriate thread for this question?

Edited October 22, 2012 by Cash

[Darklink42]

This is a question, not specifically an issue to be fixed.

On the Vault Boy mascot page, the bottom of the page indicates that the database doesn't list any remixes for the Xbox 360 version of Fallout 3.

I'm curious, any reason why the remix wasn't listed under both versions of the game? Is this the appropriate thread for this question?

I think that's because, at least at the time I wrote it, that remix hadn't been posted yet to the site.

Edit: Ha, I totally missed that it was listed under PS3. Saw the "no remixes in database" under the whole deal and took it as a catchall.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Darklink42

[Dafydd]

This is the thread, yeah, and I appreciate the feedback!

I don't remember what our policy is regarding mascots that appear in games that are ported to several consoles. The only Fallout 3 mix, http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02077/, lists the game as a PS3 one, though the game is listed as being an Xbox and Windows game as well when you search for the it in the bar at the top of the page.

Doom has been ported to any number of systems, and we only list the Windows versions for the Doom Trooper bio, (I guess) because they came out first and it wouldn't make sense to list them all. It's a bit harder to say which system a game should be listed under in a bio page if it's released on several systems at the same time. I think Fallout 3 is left out of the Windows section because that already has a few games listed, but I don't remember exactly.

The fact that the Xbox 360 version of Fallout 3 (http://ocremix.org/game/624/fallout-3-xb360) has no ReMixes listed is a little strange. I think I'll have to ask someone on site staff why. The game page for the Windows version of the game does list the ReMix.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Dafydd

[Polo]

I think Fallout 3 is left out of the Windows section because that already has a few games listed

Actually, I think it's because it wasn't in the database when I first checked the versions of Fallout 3 to link in VB's bio. But you brought it to my attention, so it's been added. Thanks.

I don't remember what our policy is regarding mascots that appear in games that are ported to several consoles.

If those different-console games are in OCR's database, we add 'em in with a link, but in cases where those game pages list no mixes, we add "no ReMixes in database" at the bottom.

Saw the "no remixes in database" under the whole deal and took it as a catchall.

Yeah, I admit that little ¹ is kinda hard to spot, but I'm not sure what other punctuation mark would serve as a footnote reminder in the OCRWiki; an asterisk * is out of the question because it marks a bullet point for a game listing, so I used ¹ as an alternative.