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JackKieser

Mass Effect 3: Every Dialog Choice Can Be Answered with "Charge"

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I thought that the still images were a weird choice for them to take; I guess they were probably easier to animate than scenes with movement, but it felt a bit like it came from out of nowhere.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that either blue or green is going to be the canonical ending now? I know a lot of people thought red would be, based on the original endings.

Overall, I enjoyed what was added, including the new rejection ending. I just know it's going to disappoint a lot of the more vocal people who hated the original endings.

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After hearing everyone's thoughts about the ending im still going to get it since 1 and 2 we so good IMO. Not to de-rail thread but I will be getting it for free like the first two :) if interested see my sig.

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After hearing everyone's thoughts about the ending im still going to get it since 1 and 2 we so good IMO.

Oh, no, definitely get it for the sake of 1 and 2, and honestly for its own sake as well. Even if the last 0.05% of the game was a bit on the disappointing side, I don't regret the 40 hours I put into it, because the 99.95% before it was still an excellent and satisfying story.

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Oh, no, definitely get it for the sake of 1 and 2, and honestly for its own sake as well. Even if the last 0.05% of the game was a bit on the disappointing side, I don't regret the 40 hours I put into it, because the 99.95% before it was still an excellent and satisfying story.

This. So much this. I've heard of people saying how the whole series was ruined by the endings, and while I will admit that even with Extended Cut they are the weakest part of the series, that still doesn't invalidate the fact that everything up until then is nothing short of brilliant. Mass Effect is one of the greatest works of fiction I have ever experienced across any medium. I have cared for few characters more than those of this series.

Indoctrination Theory? Pfffft. I'll admit it's super cool to consider and would have been an interesting way to go, and at least the video I saw on YouTube explaining it was really well made, but no way. Especially after Extended Cut can we please just let it go?

I don't know, I liked the idea of refusal. I just think they executed it pretty poorly. Really par for the course with the endings here. What I think would have been awesome is if they had had Shepard say something to the mass effect (sorry) of "You've given me no choice but the ones you want me to make. None of these are right. Destroying the Reapers at the cost of the geth and EDI? Becoming as bad as the Illusive Man and enslaving an entire race of super-powerful beings? And I would be no better than Saren if I willingly sacrificed everyone to become like him; a husk, slowly being warped to your desire. The next cycle will do what we couldn't; put an end to you once and for all, on their terms." Sorry, nerded out there a little.

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Wellllll, it could be great. Good plot, solid action sequences (KALROS,) wonderful characters, and enough fantastic dialogue for like six action flicks. That having been said, there's a lot of unknowns here. The two biggest problems for me are that one, Bioware did a shitton of world building. Where do you even start to make the cuts there? In a TRILOGY of big ass games, it's a lot easier to take in than over the course of even a trilogy of movies. Meh, I think it could be done, but another big problem is which version of Shep do you go with? The series had so many great points where more than one decision was reasonable. Do you just go full Paragon in the movie and call it a day? There would be a fair few Renegade players who would feel a little shorted. That's without even mentioning the romance subplots. Again, nothing that couldn't be surmounted, but those are two problems that spring to my mind ON TOP of all the various and sundry issues that come with adapting a beloved series from one medium to another. That having been said, it could certainly be done, especially with the right crew and enough creative control from the writers, and I guess we shall find out, as a movie has been announced. Thus far, it looks like a pretty solid start for the film, especially the fact that they are going with just the first game's events. Here's hoping it turns out amazing.

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Wellllll, it could be great. Good plot, solid action sequences (KALROS,) wonderful characters, and enough fantastic dialogue for like six action flicks. That having been said, there's a lot of unknowns here. The two biggest problems for me are that one, Bioware did a shitton of world building. Where do you even start to make the cuts there? In a TRILOGY of big ass games, it's a lot easier to take in than over the course of even a trilogy of movies. Meh, I think it could be done, but another big problem is which version of Shep do you go with? The series had so many great points where more than one decision was reasonable. Do you just go full Paragon in the movie and call it a day? There would be a fair few Renegade players who would feel a little shorted. That's without even mentioning the romance subplots. Again, nothing that couldn't be surmounted, but those are two problems that spring to my mind ON TOP of all the various and sundry issues that come with adapting a beloved series from one medium to another. That having been said, it could certainly be done, especially with the right crew and enough creative control from the writers, and I guess we shall find out, as a movie has been announced. Thus far, it looks like a pretty solid start for the film, especially the fact that they are going with just the first game's events. Here's hoping it turns out amazing.

Bump. What do you guys think?

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won't work because gamer audiences won't be able to separate the two very divergent media, and instead project their expectations as gamers onto a cinema. They'll be looking for choices and options and discovery instead of a theatrical experience, and will leave theaters fuming about "WHY DID SHEPARD LOOK LIKE THAT OR DO THAT THING OR FUCK LIARA INSTEAD OF TALI MY SHEPARD DIDNT DO ANY OF THAT ERMAGHERD WHERES TALIS FACE".

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No it doesn't, and it never did.

Well a concept as vague as indoctrination can be applied to anything. The effects vary from person to person (headaches, hallucinations, persistent humming sound, etc.) and the brainwashing is 'subtle', meaning everything you do while indoctrinated could help the reapers directly or indirectly, or it could not.

I can't understand how people are clinging to this theory and saying it would be a great ending. Indoctrination is one of the weaker concepts in Mass Effect . It feels similar to the 'it was all only a dream' cliche to me.

At any point, in any story, you could come up with a twist saying that the hero was acting as per the antagonist's plan all along and distort (not exactly retcon) the previous actions so that they turn out to be helping the antagonist. I much prefer the current ending(s).

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Well a concept as vague as indoctrination can be applied to anything.

Warning: a bit of spoilers, ahead.

The problem with the hypothesis is that it assumes that machines work in a manner in which they do not - every machine functions in the capacity it was expressly designed to function.

The indoctrination hypothesis hinges on the idea that being physically near Reapers, or Reaper technology, is what causes indoctrination; this is true, but not in the capacity that the hypothesis assumes, which is that Reapers themselves have some magical presence which causes indoctrination. The manner in which Reapers accomplish indoctrination is logically (and directly implied by the games) via machines/components of the Reapers with the express purpose of indoctrination, ie. devices that emit the electromagnetic field and ultrasound via which indoctrination is accomplished. Anyone who has ever worked with machines or computers knows that, like all tools, they only accomplish what they're specifically told to do; computers are, in a manner of speaking, dumb.

The specific idea behind the indoctrination hypothesis is that the Thanix cannons used by the Normandy SR-2, being Reaper technology, are therefore capable of remotely indoctrinating Shepard - this is akin to saying that, for example, if you took apart a car and then used some of the components to build a makeshift mallet, you'd be able to ride the mallet around as if it were a car.

For the hypothesis to make sense, the Turians who created the Thanix cannons would have had to specifically;

  • A) build the machines that indoctrinated living beings (which is unlikely, given that they only recovered the weapons technology from Sovereign, and it stands to reason that indoctrination technology wasn't physically located within the outer weaponry)
  • B) somehow incorporate these machines into the Thanix cannons without anyone knowing (again unlikely; various other engineers would have likely noted the supposedly superfluous machinery hidden in the cannons, examined it and further removed/disabled it)
  • C) want to indoctrinate Shepard for some fuckin' reason (why would they do this)

A smaller facet of the hypothesis assumes that EDI's body is somehow indoctrinating Shepard, but all three of the above points can more or less be applied to that line of thinking as well.

Since none of that seems likely or rational, I think it's safe to assume that the indoctrination hypothesis is bullshit that somebody cooked up to try and explain Mass Effect 3's super shitty ending. And, I should point out, even if the indoctrination hypothesis is what the writers were trying to accomplish, it would still be a shitty ending in literally every single narrative capacity, except it would be even more irrational, nonsensical and ultimately unsatisfying than the big bag of trash that we actually got.

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I actually prefer the original ME3 endings. They were very Minority Report/Total Recall in theme. The new ones just seem like they were made to shut people up. It's pretty much a "robots prevailed afterall" with the Little boy hologram (Lil' B-gram). Though the ending with EDI is pretty heartwarming.

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Warning: a bit of spoilers, ahead.

The problem with the hypothesis is that it assumes that machines work in a manner in which they do not - every machine functions in the capacity it was expressly designed to function.

The indoctrination hypothesis hinges on the idea that being physically near Reapers, or Reaper technology, is what causes indoctrination; this is true, but not in the capacity that the hypothesis assumes, which is that Reapers themselves have some magical presence which causes indoctrination. The manner in which Reapers accomplish indoctrination is logically (and directly implied by the games) via machines/components of the Reapers with the express purpose of indoctrination, ie. devices that emit the electromagnetic field and ultrasound via which indoctrination is accomplished. Anyone who has ever worked with machines or computers knows that, like all tools, they only accomplish what they're specifically told to do; computers are, in a manner of speaking, dumb.

The specific idea behind the indoctrination hypothesis is that the Thanix cannons used by the Normandy SR-2, being Reaper technology, are therefore capable of remotely indoctrinating Shepard - this is akin to saying that, for example, if you took apart a car and then used some of the components to build a makeshift mallet, you'd be able to ride the mallet around as if it were a car.

For the hypothesis to make sense, the Turians who created the Thanix cannons would have had to specifically;

  • A) build the machines that indoctrinated living beings (which is unlikely, given that they only recovered the weapons technology from Sovereign, and it stands to reason that indoctrination technology wasn't physically located within the outer weaponry)
  • B) somehow incorporate these machines into the Thanix cannons without anyone knowing (again unlikely; various other engineers would have likely noted the supposedly superfluous machinery hidden in the cannons, examined it and further removed/disabled it)
  • C) want to indoctrinate Shepard for some fuckin' reason (why would they do this)

A smaller facet of the hypothesis assumes that EDI's body is somehow indoctrinating Shepard, but all three of the above points can more or less be applied to that line of thinking as well.

Since none of that seems likely or rational, I think it's safe to assume that the indoctrination hypothesis is bullshit that somebody cooked up to try and explain Mass Effect 3's super shitty ending. And, I should point out, even if the indoctrination hypothesis is what the writers were trying to accomplish, it would still be a shitty ending in literally every single narrative capacity, except it would be even more irrational, nonsensical and ultimately unsatisfying than the big bag of trash that we actually got.

It's not in any way dependant on the thanix cannons -- in fact I don't think I've ever heard suggested that the thanix cannons are responsible.

Rather, it's due to all the time shepard has spent around reapers and reaper artifacts.

Remember in ME2, it was established that even a dead reaper can indoctrinate.

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It's not in any way dependant on the thanix cannons -- in fact I don't think I've ever heard suggested that the thanix cannons are responsible.

Rather, it's due to all the time shepard has spent around reapers and reaper artifacts.

Remember in ME2, it was established that even a dead reaper can indoctrinate.

I believe the exact words used were "Even a dead god still dreams." Very Lovecraftian, from what little I understand of his works.

On an unrelated note, remember that creepy-as-fuck area on the derelict Reaper where the scientists impaled themselves on those spikes, and the whole area was set up like an altar? (It's right before the area where Legion snipes a Husk behind you.) I remember getting a cutscene with Shepard and co. observing it and offering commentary, but it hasn't happened again during any of my subsequent playthroughs. Did I just make that cutscene up in my mind or is there a trick to making it play?

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Remember in ME2, it was established that even a dead reaper can indoctrinate.

The derelict Reaper had enough function to continuously project a mass effect field that prevented it from falling into the nearby star. It wasn't really 'dead' in any sense.

That being said, it's nonsensical to assume that the short time Shepard spent on it was enough to indoctrinate her, just as much as it is nonsensical to assume that the vaguely-defined 'Reaper core' that she retrieves is actually secretly a machine that broadcasts the indoctrination fields and that somehow none of the scientists noticed this while studying it intensively.

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Honestly, the Extended Cut seemed mixed to me. Overall, I appreciated it, but (highlight for SPOILERS)

I was incredibly disappointed at how late in the ending it kicked in. One of the things that bothered me most was no matter the size or composition of Hammer, the last mission plays out *exactly* the same. Whether it's 50% or 25% of Hammer that reports in, whether you have Krogan, Geth, Quarians, Salarians, and all the merc clans, or nothing but humans, Turians, and a battered Quarian flotilla. How hard would it have been for Bioware to program a couple instances into that last mission where groups you rallied to your side came to your rescue... or if you didn't rally them, you have to deal with an enemy force all by yourself? It's so odd to me that the final mission is unaffected by your military choices.

Also, could Bioware really not admit they made a mistake in having your London squadmates step out of the crashed Normandy? The whole evac scene seemed so awkwardly shoved in. Sure, let's just bring the most advanced Alliance ship down from the fight to squat like a sitting duck before the most powerful ancient Reaper, just so we can evac two wounded soldiers in a battle where EVERYONE is likely to die anyway. Honestly, your London squadmates should have perished with the rest of the assault. To do any different devalues the long-established strength of the Reapers.

Thankfully, the writers struck a much better chord with the revised and extended Catalyst dialogue. I no longer get the feeling that he is opposed to the Crucible's changes, as he seemed in the original ending. Also, it is wonderfully enlightening to hear the Catalyst fleshed out as an AI creation, one that creates less-than-perfect solutions to a near impossible task.

The ending speeches, however, seem without Bioware's usual nuance for detail. No one ever lives happily ever after, and I was hoping to hear at least a foreshadowing of such.

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The Extended Cut made the ending go from 'the worst' to just 'bad'. It's still a nightmare thematically, structurally, scripturally and visually.

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The thing is, whether or not the Reapers were justified in doing what they were doing isn't really what the whole series is about until the final moments of the third game. Thematically, the origins and motives of the Reapers are not relevant; the story was never about understanding the villains so much as it was about defeating them.

If we look at the ending in absolutist terms, not revealing the origins of the Reapers at all would have been a much better choice than attempting to explain them.

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