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MindWanderer

RWS - ReMixing With the Stars: Pilot Episode

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Well, here's my thinking/plan.

What I'd like to do for the real seasons is to keep as stable a population of remixers as possible, with each Novice cooperating with each Star once, again as much as possible given that it will be drop-in, drop-out. Since the majority of participants are in the US, if I paired Europeans up with each other as much as possible, it would limit the pool of available partners to one or two. I could start folks off with others in their own time zone at first, but that would fall apart pretty quickly.

As for DAWs, since there are so many different ones, there's the same problem but moreso. Furthermore, since it's a competition, whoever got lucky enough to share the same DAW would be at a significant advantage. What I'm thinking right now is to limit each team from exchanging project files--they can only send each other midis, wavs, etc, anything software-neutral, and the final submission would have to come from the Novice.

Man, limiting it like this would make things so much harder. I don't know if I would've been able to get anything done if kou didn't use one of the DAWs I have access to. It would be much more time consuming. Besides, there aren't that many different daws really. Most people use Cubase, Sonar, Fruityloops, Reason, reaper, Ableton or garageband, and on some of these you can export project files between formats.

Besides the novice would be pretty limited in what he will learn, anything software-specific would be pretty difficult to show if they don't share workstations.

Being from South America is completely bad for these kind of things :cry:

I don't see how that would be bad, as south america shares time zones with north america too.

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Posting source links in the first post now.

I'm using EasyTAG for Linux, so even though I didn't tag them the same way you suggested, they should still show up grouped by album ("ReMixing With the Stars"; OCR is touchy about using their name, and this isn't an official OCR release) and disk (000, for the pilot; season 1, episode 1 will be 011). Are the tags not showing correctly for you?

No, they showed up fine. I think I was just being picky how I preferred things to be tagged :P The way I have my stuff grouped in iTunes is "Album by Artist" so not having an Album Artist grouping (like OCR) was throwing them off. No worries!

Nice! However, I'd personally rather have one piece of art for the whole RMWtS collection, and I'm not sure if it's OK to use the OCR logo. But the design is very cool.

Whatever, whatever, I do what I want! :razz: But no, yeah I was just thinking that since the Novices were working exclusively with "OCR Stars" that the logo use was appropriate. But yeah like I said, feel free to use the art, or I can send PSDs, or tweak something for ya if you like!

As for DAWs, since there are so many different ones, there's the same problem but moreso. Furthermore, since it's a competition, whoever got lucky enough to share the same DAW would be at a significant advantage. What I'm thinking right now is to limit each team from exchanging project files--they can only send each other midis, wavs, etc, anything software-neutral, and the final submission would have to come from the Novice.

Honestly, I think that is a really really limiting idea. I don't think it is necessary at all for people to have the same DAWs. For example, I'm one of like 2 people in the world that use Sony ACID as my DAW, so I've never swapped project files with anyone haha, but I haven't felt limited in my collabs at all. Sure, you can't send project files, but if someone wants to help you write a melody, you just export that channel as a MIDI and send it off. If you want someone to exchange instruments for you, again, just send off the MIDI, have them insert their instrument, render a WAV stem for you, then insert it back in your song. Mixing and mastering can be done on individual WAV stems for the whole song too if you really want to get that technical. Plus there are so many VST instrument banks, you have to assume that the people with the same DAW would also need to have the same VSTs in order to just be able to swap project files. If people have different DAWs, but the same VSTs, they can still help each other out with instruments and how to do effects and synth modulation, stuff like that. Plus the fundamentals of how to EQ, how to stereo-separate, and other production techniques, don't change because your DAW does. Helping with production techniques is DAW-neutral.

Sorry wasn't trying to rant on, but I just feel like limiting people to the same DAW really isn't necessary!

Great job on everything MindWanderer, this seems like it's been fun for the people involved so far, and I've enjoyed all the music! I definitely look forward to participating in one of these down the road...

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No, they showed up fine. I think I was just being picky how I preferred things to be tagged :P The way I have my stuff grouped in iTunes is "Album by Artist" so not having an Album Artist grouping (like OCR) was throwing them off. No worries!
Hmm... EasyTAG doesn't have Album Artist. Found another one, Ex Falso, which does have Album Artist, but also Performer, and the SZRC files seem to use Performer (according to it). I can definitely tag them differently if there's a preference.

And yeah, the PSTs for the art would be good, I can work with that.

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Hmm... EasyTAG doesn't have Album Artist. Found another one, Ex Falso, which does have Album Artist, but also Performer, and the SZRC files seem to use Performer (according to it). I can definitely tag them differently if there's a preference.

And yeah, the PSTs for the art would be good, I can work with that.

I used Mp3 tag, that I linked below, for the SZRC. I'll send you the PSDs, I was actually making a few tweaks anyway :-)

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I've revised the download zip with some more ID3 tags and album art.

Great work everyone, I just locked in my own votes, and it wasn't easy. Everyone has at least one vote at this point, so you should all be proud. I'd definitely like to see some of these submitted, perhaps with some cleaning up. I especially enjoyed ScarfFace--always love me some NES Mega Man--though it was definitely still a little rough around the edges, or I would have ranked it higher.

Incidentally, how do you all feel about the voting system? Is it better to have a public social group, which is easily audited, or PMs, which are more suspenseful? Should I post a chart of who voted how at the end, or is there value in anonymity?

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I've revised the download zip with some more ID3 tags and album art.

Great work everyone, I just locked in my own votes, and it wasn't easy. Everyone has at least one vote at this point, so you should all be proud. I'd definitely like to see some of these submitted, perhaps with some cleaning up. I especially enjoyed ScarfFace--always love me some NES Mega Man--though it was definitely still a little rough around the edges, or I would have ranked it higher.

Incidentally, how do you all feel about the voting system? Is it better to have a public social group, which is easily audited, or PMs, which are more suspenseful? Should I post a chart of who voted how at the end, or is there value in anonymity?

Lol there definitely is suspense, and I think that's good for a contest. I'd feel more sad if I saw votes stacking up against me live versus just finding out at the end that I wasn't chosen. That's me, personally. But it does make me anxious to know :P

As for the display of the votes, I think that you should post a chart of the votes, but not who voted. Anonymity is a good thing when it comes to voting cuz no one can be judged about it. You could put a tally of how many points each mix received, in descending order of course.

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As for the display of the votes, I think that you should post a chart of the votes, but not who voted. Anonymity is a good thing when it comes to voting cuz no one can be judged about it. You could put a tally of how many points each mix received, in descending order of course.

I think this is the way to go. Besides, the final scores are all that matter :)

Also, I agree with SuperiorX and Sir_NutS about the project file thing. I understand what the rationale is for not allowing it, but I think it would just end up being limiting, especially when time is a commodity.

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Incidentally, how do you all feel about the voting system? Is it better to have a public social group, which is easily audited, or PMs, which are more suspenseful? Should I post a chart of who voted how at the end, or is there value in anonymity?

I think the chart should be posted.

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Ugh, we have to judge? UUggghhh, fine.

ENTERING JUDGE MODE

I'll put up my eval here, but I'll judge in PM. However, it's late at night, and I might not send in the judging PM until later. (I'll probably edit this post here as people begin posting their sources)

I remember this source! Ah, sweet nostalgia.

I'm not a fan of the synth used for the opening notes, nor the slowing down/speeding up of the opening arpeggio like that. However, it's a clever re-instrumentation of the opening, and I feel like the guitar parts are well-written and performed. The mixing is good. No muddiness or anything like that.

aaand I still can't get used to that sudden slowing down of that synth. Oh well.

I'll fill these in when all the sources are posted

Gonna be continuing this? lol

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Anybody can vote, right?

I'm not familiar with most of the sources, but I'd like to support this!

Yes, anyone may, just send votes to MindWanderer!

when I have time, which I won't have much for quite a while

Alrighty, just wondering dude! :)

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Also, I agree with SuperiorX and Sir_NutS about the project file thing. I understand what the rationale is for not allowing it, but I think it would just end up being limiting, especially when time is a commodity.
I thought SuperiorX was saying the exact opposite: that wavs, midis, and maybe VSTs are totally adequate for file exchange.

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Ah...possibly. Could that be clarified?

I thought we meant the same thing? I do not like the idea of limiting teams to using the same DAW. I don't think it is necessary.

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Many think that it's not a limitation, but a convenience, to use the same daw as your partner, and not having the same daw is a limitation. At least some people stated that earlier in this thread.

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Many think that it's not a limitation, but a convenience, to use the same daw as your partner, and not having the same daw is a limitation. At least some people stated that earlier in this thread.

Yeah it's convenient, but it also comes with the price of discouraging feedback. I don't think a hard rule is the answer. The novices should be here first and foremost to learn, and should be asking their star for feedback. If that feedback comes via the star looking at or editing the project file, that's cool, it's an added benefit for the little extra trouble of having to ask rather than having to communicate more direct feedback.

It may be a bit of an unfair advantage, but as the first goal is the learning and competing comes second, I don't think it's a problem. Besides, even if FL is pretty popular on Win, and most Macs have a version of GB, you're probably gonna be paired up with someone who doesn't share DAWs at some point anyway.

As for rules, I don't think we actually need to add/change much. Being aware of the problems we've had so far means we know better how to handle them.

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It may be a bit of an unfair advantage, but as the first goal is the learning and competing comes second, I don't think it's a problem. .

I was under the impression that it was the other way around, at least from what I've gathered from this thread. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed like the result was top priority, and not the process of a novice learning something, because you can't really determine or control "learning".

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Incidentally, how do you all feel about the voting system? Is it better to have a public social group, which is easily audited, or PMs, which are more suspenseful? Should I post a chart of who voted how at the end, or is there value in anonymity?

The voting seems to be working nicely. I kinda like the more suspenseful PM voting, but it'd be nice to see the chart at the end.

Honestly, loved the first round works, everyone. Keep it up!

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I prefer PM voting to a social group, I don't like to see how other people voted when I vote. I know that I don't have to read other votes, but it's hard not to when you have to go into the thread.

I think you should post how many votes each song received, but not how each individual voted. I think we should have the right to maintain our anonymity, plus seeing how other people voted may create a negative bias.

As for making a rule that says we can't exchange project files, that seems a bit too limiting for my tastes, which seems to be the consensus. I really don't think having the same DAW gives too much of advantage. People often have different samples at their disposal, which complicates file exchanges. The advantage is that novices (and maybe stars as well) have access to specific advice and help in their DAW, but I think the advantage is somewhat balanced out by having different sample libraries.

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I was under the impression that it was the other way around, at least from what I've gathered from this thread. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed like the result was top priority, and not the process of a novice learning something, because you can't really determine or control "learning".

Nah, I'm with Rozo on this one. The learning came first, mainly because this was an attempt for novices to learn techniques of some posted remixers. Yeah, it's a "contest", but still the main idea was "learning".

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I wasn't stating my opinion there, and I agree with you. But as DjMystix said a while back, at the end of the day this is a competition even though the focus of the participants is learning.

Haven't even voted yet, and already looking forwards to future episodes!

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I love the idea of this competition and hearing the mixes just make me think that this could be a great series of competitions for people to partake in (or just listen). I'm sure there have been a share of niggles to get around but I think the whole thing of people using the same DAWs is just meh. Its kind've like projects where people collab or are just able to give more focused feedback (but more so), not everyone has the same DAW. In truth, particpants will probably learn more by focusing on general production/musical feedback than the odd idiosyncrasies of their DAWs. This first round is kinda proof of that as the quality of the entries is great! Well done on a crackin' pilot :<

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Example: Even though Cash and Change and I use the same DAW, we still used MP3s and WAVs, not project files, as a means to collaborate.

Such restrictions are not necessary. The compo should be kept as-is imo. It worked wonderfully.

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