Varying Your Drums

[Sage Orpheus]

I'm looking for advice regarding creating variation in my drums. I know having drums that are too repetitive is a common newbie mistake,and I'm working on my first remix that uses drums. It's just a Djembe rather than a drum set in the song I'm working on, actually, in case that is relevant to your answer.

I've edited my drum pattern into oblivion so I'm going to start over later. I started out by writing an 8 measure pattern that I liked, then just copied it to repeat throughout the portion of my remix I've written so far...so about 8 times. Then in an effort to keep it from being repetitive I scrolled throughout to make little changes. Then when I listened I realized I had mainly just added a couple notes in various places that just made the rhythm even busier and suddenly the drums had become distracting. So I tried again and this time instead of adding notes I changed a few rhythms in each repetition - added a syncopation here, changed a syncopation to a straight rhythm there, etc. But then when I listened to the whole thing it didn't have a consistent enough groove - I had varied it too much again.

So do you guys have any helpful rules of thumb? Is there ever a point where you do just copy and paste? Maybe 16 measures is enough to avoid noticing it is repetitive? Longer? Shorter?

Or if that isn't your approach, roughly how many changes do you make? One or two per 4 measure chunk that started the same? One or two per 8 measure chunk that started the same?

I'm guessing a "less is more" approach is probably appropriate with this, but I don't want to err in the other direction now of being too static.

TL;DR - I am editing my drum patterns so much to avoid repetition that they feel awkward. How much variation is necessary to avoid it feeling static, but not be so varied that it is awkward?

[Meteo Xavier]

I sometimes cut and paste, but I tend to paste out long patterns of the same groove and listen to it until I hear where there should be a change. You can even get creative about which sections you cut and paste out to make the same patterns seem more variated.

If I can recommend - go to vgmusic.com and check out a bunch of tracks by Motoi Sakuraba (Star Ocean, Golden Sun, Valkyrie Profile). In my opinion, he's the VGM king of writing variated drum tracks and if you load them into your DAW, you can get a bunch of great ideas and techniques of how to variate them and transition them ok.

[SnappleMan]

The best thing that you can do is find some way to perform your drum tracks instead of just mousing them in (MIDI keyboard or even qwerty input which some DAWs support). Play along with the track for a while and you'll most likely start playing different variations of the drums naturally. But the most important thing is to make sure that the beat complements the bass and general groove of the song, some of the very best drum tracks are the simplest.

[Arceace]

This is a topic I'm really interested in too. I usually suffer from the exact problem, so you're not alone on this. What I like to do is develope a substantial "base rhythm", copy it, and make a few minor fill changes. For example, I usually start with a simple 4-4 beat, copy it, edit some of the hats, copy it again, add a reverse cymbal, and continue to make changes like that until I feel better about the drums.

However, I still have plenty of moments when I can't seem to write anything that works for the song. I'm curious to see how everyone handles this problem.

[Rozovian]

if they sound human enough, repetition isn't that big a problem within a part, but if they're the same for the whole track you've got a problem. Make sure to vary them according to the dynamics of the track. Don't be afraid to make really minimal parts with just one or two notes, if the track calls for it. Also, don't think your additional percussion has to blindly follow the track's dynamics, a soft section can have a lot of it to make up for a lack of other drums, while a really intense section might get too busy with too much going on.

[Kanohi]

I don't think repetition is always bad, another common mistake is to try too hard to make something varied and in doing that the flow can be ruined. Take an artist like Amon Tobin, a lot of his drums are repeated, but the way they're EQ'd, sampled, and mixed along with the subtle variations makes for a solid and enjoyable sound.

Essentially what I'm saying is keep it simple, embellish when you see a good opportunity.

[Nase]

The best thing that you can do is find some way to perform your drum tracks instead of just mousing them in (MIDI keyboard or even qwerty input which some DAWs support). Play along with the track for a while and you'll most likely start playing different variations of the drums naturally.

Couldn't agree more. Even if your timing sucks, you can hard quantise everything if all else fails. It just helps so much to quickly lay down a basic beat with some fills and variations, then edit that. Sequencing everything is more tedious, no matter if you make the world's most delicious copy pasta. I really have to wonder why i did it for so long.

[timaeus222]

I don't copy and paste placeholder patterns. I just write them in as the time comes. i.e. I write them 4 patterns at a time, and when I feel like there should be a change, I clone patterns 2 and 4 and change them. Sometimes I even change pattern 3 to keep it different the entire time. Great advice: Don't let laziness control how you write your drum patterns.

I also don't play it in live. I tried once, and it's hard to get used to it.

Just listen to how you want your song to sound at that moment, and make your writing match that. I've done a simple kick-snare rhythm before, and I've done a drum rhythm with 4 layers of patterns before. It just depends on the feel of the spot you're currently composing in your track.

[Tensei]

Accents accents accents. It's easy enough to copypaste the same beat for an entire track, but you can make it really come alive if you make the fills, crashes and kick drum correspond to the natural accents found in the song. This is even easier to do when you're using a midi controller, but even without one you can just tap along with the song, and your natural sense of rhythm will often fill in the 'correct' patterns for you.

Also, listen to songs with live drums and focus specifically on the percussion. A lot of it is very subtle, but it's the little things like ghost notes and hi-hat pattern variations that make it work.

[Cody Wedel]

I'm fairly new to drum sequencing (I wouldn't say "beginnerish," but definitely not on par with most professionals). I've found that ghost notes (strikes that are very low velocity, almost inaudible) provide the drumline a nice, humanized sound if added in properly. Not all tracks benefit from such notes but the ones I've worked on do. From a listener's perspective, I wouldn't have imagined that just a few minor changes could enhance the quality of a drumline to such extremes.

My main problem with sequencing drums is that I'll spend far too much time on making a drumline "perfect" (which involves listening to the track dozens of times while making changes in between each listen). Despite the results, I always get burnt out and I don't really want to work on the track anymore. I've stopped many a remix for this reason. Has this happened to anyone and if so, how was this issue remedied?

[Sage Orpheus]

Really good advice, thanks everyone. Lots of good "exercises" I can use to help with this now. I think mainly the conclusion I've reached is that I've been over thinking it. So to summarize a lot of what you guys said, I went back and instead of trying to vary for the sake of being varied I'm mainly just making an effort now to make sure my drum matches what I want to bring out in the song, which ends up making the drum varied.

[Argle]

My main problem with sequencing drums is that I'll spend far too much time on making a drumline "perfect" (which involves listening to the track dozens of times while making changes in between each listen). Despite the results, I always get burnt out and I don't really want to work on the track anymore. I've stopped many a remix for this reason. Has this happened to anyone and if so, how was this issue remedied?

Work quickly. Don't listen to the drum track over and over for an hour, you'll get sick of it. Use broad brush strokes initially, and if you can't get a finished product right away set it aside and come back later. Move on to something else in the track, and when you get stuck there, revisit the drums for a bit. My drum tracks usually evolve over the course of the song's production.

I had your problem for years, and the thing that fixed it for me was taking a more detached view of my tracks, and learning to move quickly and jump to a different section if I sense myself getting bogged down.

[Melodious Punk]

this thread has a ton of great perspectives.

With any instrument, including each drum sound, I work through pads or keys, and I haven't programmed drums note for note in a while, but I remember that it can be really fun. My biggest suggestion is to listen as much as you can, and there's a ton of great music out there that highlights great use of entropy in percussion.

The compilation album "Rebel Music" by Bob Marley and the Wailers is absolutely stuffed full of extremely inventive drum playing, and each track is very different. It also highlights how each sound of the drums is a unique instrument, like a band in itself.

[Nase]

With any instrument, including each drum sound, I work through pads or keys, and I haven't programmed drums note for note in a while, but I remember that it can be really fun. My biggest suggestion is to listen as much as you can, and there's a ton of great music out there that highlights great use of entropy in percussion.

Entropy is a great word in that context.

I really enjoy using the MPC style pads that a lot of ipad apps feature.

One way to come up with patterns on them is to put on 16th or 1/32 quantising and just go apeshit with the hihats or whatever. If your rhythm is very off, you'll simply get something more syncopated. It might sound awesome right away, or i might want to change a few notes or record again, but it beats clicking everything into the piano roll.

With rhythm, you don't have to consider parameters like dissonance. It's either straight or more out there, or barely recognisable.

Just give any variation a try. Let entropy creep into the process and then filtrate the whole mess to your liking.

I always found harmonies way more daunting as far as experimentation goes. Rhythmic development comes relatively easy to me once i have something i can build it around.

[Melodious Punk]

One way to come up with patterns on them is to put on 16th or 1/32 quantising and just go apeshit with the hihats or whatever

that actually makes me think of another bit.

i learned a lot this last year writing for real instruments and learning the limitations of actual players. Occasionally, I write the word "fuzzy pickles" in the score to let the players know that I want them to freak out and just make a ton of noise. Eventually, after rehearsing 5 or 6 times, they start to develop a pattern to the madness, and with DAWs, it's easy to simulate that same process with yourself very quickly, though it lacks the groupthink.

[Nase]

Being a good composer/arranger probably is about making that groupthink come alive in your head, treating every instrument as sort of a sentient player, or character.

What style of sequencing is closest to a live jam? I'm not sure, but it probably has to do with the aforementioned initial broader brush strokes, as well as an ability to work a bit here and a bit there.

I sometimes notice how i like to get lost in sequencing and extending very specific bits of a track. That may result in something unexpectedly cool or in a complete dead end. Sometimes you just come up with a bit you fall in love with, but the more you work on it in a vacuum, the more it loses touch with the rest of the track.

The bass player in my head is like that. He's really obsessed with poseresque slapbass stunts, much to the dismay of the rest of the band.

[Fishy]

The best thing that you can do is find some way to perform your drum tracks instead of just mousing them in (MIDI keyboard or even qwerty input which some DAWs support).

Dis^

Seriously, get a midi keyboard, and just jam along. Doesn't matter how terrible it sounds, you can quantise and normalize the volume later.

Also, draw inspiration (read: steal) from sweet-ass drummers.

For instance, I use a lot of adapted patterns in the styles of Gavin Harrison and Mike Portnoy in my rock drums as they are my favourite drummers. Just do some speculative viewing of the styles of music you want, find something that makes your jaw drop. Then learn why it does!

[CC Ricers]

The quickest way to go from repetition to variation is chopping up your existing drum patterns and re-arranging the pieces in a new way. I often use this approach to throw in an extra snare or hi-hat when doing a short fill or ending a musical phrase. To me this has two benefits to your work space: you don't pile up too many patterns in your project, and you don't make overly long patterns that contain all your variations.

[SnappleMan]

Or if you are brave enough to add some variety to your melodic instruments then a steady drum track is necessary to keep a focal point to the arrangement while everything else is doing harmonically and rhythmically varied things.

Designating the rhythm to JUST your drum track is the first step in having a repetitive beat, regardless of how frantic you make that drum track.

[timaeus222]

The quickest way to go from repetition to variation is chopping up your existing drum patterns and re-arranging the pieces in a new way. I often use this approach to throw in an extra snare or hi-hat when doing a short fill or ending a musical phrase. To me this has two benefits to your work space: you don't pile up too many patterns in your project, and you don't make overly long patterns that contain all your variations.

I did that at one point, stopped, then started doing it again more recently. It's a good idea. Sometimes I get lazy, and if I want to do a simple kick-snare dance rhythm for a buildup or breakdown section, I just grab a kick and a snare sliced from another pattern and use those to build the drum patterns for that section.

[Aephus]

Thank you for posting your frustration, and also thank you to everyone who contributed, as I deal with the same problem. Now to work on song progression..