do you really need to go to a university to get a job as a music composer?

[GSO]

ok, probably stupid question but besides talent and lots of luck, do you really need to go to a university to get a job as a music composer? (an example is the Trenches Original Soundtrack here on OCR) because I have a 2 year university level course book on music theory and I want to practice to get my craft to the point where people don't piss themselves laughing everytime I put stuff out.

[ectogemia]

Jake Kaufman.

[Theory of N]

No, it's not necessary. You can get a degree in music anything but the quality of your work is more important than your qualifications.

Granted, if it's something you're really wanting to do, I would definitely strive for a formal education in music. The knowledge you receive is invaluable and given enough effort, increases the quality of your work quite a bit. Also the piece of paper you get from finishing a degree will help you earn some extra money from your real job that you'll no doubt have "on the side" while you try to make a living writing music.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

No.

In fact, some of the most successful music composers for film, tv and video games have no formal training. Hell, I've heard several times that Vangelis can't even read notation (not sure if that's true). Regardless, there are so many ways you can go about learning to compose music these days. Musical textures, chords, melodic movement, orchestration etc. are easily the most important aspects of composition and you can often learn them from studying existing works.

[Meteo Xavier]

In fact, some of the most successful music composers for film, tv and video games have no formal training.

Don't let that stop you from pursuing real instruction and knowledge on how music is done. Keep in mind the many people who "made it" musically without formal training are celebrated for that fact in reverse - it only sounds awesome AFTER they got lucky and did something amazing that was successful enough for them to get recognized.

You don't NEED university, but it probably gives you a lot better a shot than not. Hell, college students in many fields are still struggling to get jobs having paid $40,000-$100,000 for the world's most expensive toilet paper and music jobs are tough to get even if you are an A-level composer/celebrity. Always keep that in mind.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Don't let that stop you from pursuing real instruction and knowledge on how music is done. Keep in mind the many people who "made it" musically without formal training are celebrated for that fact in reverse - it only sounds awesome AFTER they got lucky and did something amazing that was successful enough for them to get recognized.

You don't NEED university, but it probably gives you a lot better a shot than not. Hell, college students in many fields are still struggling to get jobs having paid $40,000-$100,000 for the world's most expensive toilet paper and music jobs are tough to get even if you are an A-level composer/celebrity. Always keep that in mind.

I disagree for the most part with that first bit. Many of those musicians buried themselves in books, playing their instruments, videos, private instruction and spent enormous amounts of time jamming with other musicians. Also, when I say "formal" I mean school; you're always going to be taught things from other musicians regardless. Which is essentially what happens at school anyway. Take for example Jamie Christopherson (Metal Gear Rising OST). He has a Master's degree in music composition, but his biography says, to quote directly "his real musical education came from playing at night in the local scene with jazz, funk and rock bands."

I had the opportunity to go to college for music and I turned it down after I talked to various instructors and friends of mine. Many of whom have music degrees and diplomas. You'll be investing a lot of money and time towards a degree or diploma for something that is far less likely to get you a job than almost anything else you could study. What's worse, is that what they're teaching you can be learned elsewhere for a lot less money if you're really serious about it.

Ultimately, you just need to consider where you're at with your music now and evaluate how fast you are learning and if it's taking you where you want to go with your music or not. Just as self-education (which also involves learning from other sources) isn't for everyone, "academic pursuit of music education isn't for everyone" as the head of my college's music department told me.

Edited April 16, 2013 by AngelCityOutlaw

[Meteo Xavier]

My point was not to discourage university education just because others were able to be successful without it. That's really lazy-minded advice that could have negative impacts on one's ability to actually succeed in an artistic field (honestly, you'd be surprised how many people simply refuse to learn how to do music right just because their heroes didn't need it).

Yes, it's proven you don't need college to get ahead, but it still exists for a reason - and it's where a lot of music jobs for music graduates show up.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

My point was not to discourage university education just because others were able to be successful without it. That's really lazy-minded advice that could have negative impacts on one's ability to actually succeed in an artistic field (honestly, you'd be surprised how many people simply refuse to learn how to do music right just because their heroes didn't need it).

Yes, it's proven you don't need college to get ahead, but it still exists for a reason - and it's where a lot of music jobs for music graduates show up.

Fair enough

[dannthr]

I have a degree in English: Creative Writing.

I am a working composer and music producer, and I am the Chief-Instructor in a Video Game Sound Design and Music Production program in an accredited college.

I just finished authoring our Music Theory curriculum in our new Music Production degree program.

If you can't go to college because of resources, then the spirit of learning will be your ally, but if you can, GO, GO TO COLLEGE, GO TO A UNIVERSITY!

The University is a unique place. There will never be another place like it, and there will never be another time in your life like the time you spend there. It's rife with potential and opportunity and those two things are some of the most important things you will ever encounter throughout your career.

Do it.

[Moseph]

I have degrees in both commercial/electronic music (bachelor's) and composition (master's) and I don't regret getting either of them. Certainly university study is helpful for almost anyone who's interested in pursuing music (excluding, of course, people who just don't work well in a school environment), but it's definitely not strictly necessary. And the time/cost of getting a degree is too high for it to be a realistic option for some people. If you're considering going to school for music, I'd suggest that you should think of your goals more in terms of personal development and less in terms of whether you're guaranteed a job (because you're not).

If you're interested in guided study of composition but school isn't an option, I'd suggest getting in touch with the composition faculty at any universities in the area and asking them whether they have any composition students who give private lessons. University students are often looking for extra money/teaching experience, and their rates for lessons will be a lot lower than what you'd pay for school.

[dannthr]

Yes, Composer "Jobs" are extremely rare--a working composer makes their own work--and when you're being appraised for a gig, schooling rarely factors.

If I were to go to school for music again, I would do the Masters level Film Scoring certificate at USC, lots of hands on work and great networking opportunities.

[Garrett Williamson]

Going back to the original question...

Probably, in that regard, yes. I really don't know... I mean if you are a very talented person and you can prove that you are a good music composer, then going to a university wouldn't necessarily be needed. But normally, I think that the answer to that question would be yes.

In other areas in the music industry, college isn't required. Being a pop or rockstar or even being a session musician and even a songwriter doesn't require college at all. You can still go to a university or something, but if you already have enough knowledge in whatever you are planning to do (sessions, engineering, solo artist, etc.), then college/a university isn't really needed.

[timaeus222]

Also, when I say "formal" I mean school; you're always going to be taught things from other musicians regardless. Which is essentially what happens at school anyway.

Actually, you're equivocating informal and formal teaching in this regard, and they're two completely different things. Formal teaching comes from teachers/professors who know how to teach effectively and convey information effectively. It's much more practical to learn from someone who knows how to channel information into you easily than to learn by yourself or from an unofficial teacher. However, learning by yourself is almost as effective as getting taught, and is just as viable an option, depending on your googling skills and information browsing prowess.

If you can afford to go to a university to earn a music-related degree, sure, go for it. If you can't afford it, it's not completely necessary to go there anyways. It's better than learning by yourself, but it's not a necessity.

Edited April 16, 2013 by timaeus222

[HoboKa]

Going back to the original question...

Probably, in that regard, yes. I really don't know... I mean if you are a very talented person and you can prove that you are a good music composer, then going to a university wouldn't necessarily be needed. But normally, I think that the answer to that question would be yes.

In other areas in the music industry, college isn't required. Being a pop or rockstar or even being a session musician and even a songwriter doesn't require college at all. You can still go to a university or something, but if you already have enough knowledge in whatever you are planning to do (sessions, engineering, solo artist, etc.), then college/a university isn't really needed.

Getting a college diploma *may* be enough. But another talent that anyone in the music industry needs is connection-making. Knowing how to approach potential employers and the like is half of the game right there. If you are going to do post-secondary, make sure that it covers the business side of things (any course that helps make you more employable helps too)

[Sinewaver]

I have friends who went to school for art and game design, which is pretty similar to music in the general outcome after graduating. Anyone who has made it says that they learned some useful things in school, but it isn't anything they couldn't learn on their own with a little self discipline. The portfolio is what matters most in the creative fields and you can have a great one even without an education. How many people do you think graduate from some of these schools while having very little skill? A lot.

If you want to go the schooling route, make sure you don't leave without a solid network of contacts. That is 99% of the reason to go to school for something like music, in my opinion. If you're going to be $100,000 deep, you'd better have some people who can hook you up with a job to pay off the debt. You might be better off studying business or marketing and doing music on the side. Being a creative professional is often just a much about selling yourself as it is being good at your craft.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Being a creative professional is often just as much about selling yourself as it is being good at your craft.

That's why I'm studying marketing in the fall term =D

Learn how to promote my own music better and also be able to get a "real" job in the film/game/music etc business. Two birds; one stone.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Depends how you see higher education. If you view it as an outlet for a career, especially in music, then no, it's not for you.

If you view it, however, as an investment into a quality of education you can not easily find elsewhere, then yes, it is absolutely worth it.

I tend not to think of college as the stepping stone to a job. That would kind of make my degree pointless; it's a Custom-Designed Major that covers Computer Science, Game Dev, Electrical, and Music Tech. I don't particularly view it as having the degree will enable me to pursue a career in that area/field. Instead, I view it as a long few years of rapidly learning skills that I want to have and think I will need out there in the real world, in programming, in audio engineering, etc.

What will get you to your career is monastic obsession and a desire that won't let you back down. You can't be afraid of security and things like that or you'll stop short and miss the big chances and cause what you feared. No one ever became great by playing it safe. I'm not saying you don't need other skills (of course you do; networking, talent), but the mindset is necessary. The degree, on the contrary, isn't.

That being said. Berklee College of Music has some fantastic online certificate programs in orchestration, arrangement, scoring, recording, production, etc. I test drove an Orchestration 101 from them and I fell in love IMMEDIATELY. Highly recommend it if full college tuition prices don't sound so attractive. An entire program is around $11k.

http://www.berkleemusic.com/school/certificates/master

Edited April 17, 2013 by Neblix