Xenoblade Chronicles = FF XII

[avaris]

First let me give my personal opinion of Xenoblade Chronicles, just finished playing it. Was pretty underwhelmed. It was a beautiful game visually and musically. Although it's story and characters were below average. It's like someone who is beautiful on the outside but shallow and lacks depth on the inside.

On the flip-side after completing this game it struck how similar it was FF XII in many areas. The open world concept. The battle system. The characters, I actually preferred FFXII's characters. Why is Xenoblade regarded as such a better game than FFXII?

[The Legendary Zoltan]

Well, I haven't played it but I always here people talk about how good the systems all are and in particularly the quest system. It takes the popular open world and mmo style of game and cuts out all the annoying stuff. That's what I heard. It's by Monolith so I will be biased towards liking it until I play it. Stupid Nintendo has to steal the things I love!

[The Derrit]

well given what i played of ffXII and that xenoblade chronicles is very similar my guess is the incredibly loud contingent of "true FF fans" that hate every FF game released in the past 15 years

[ectogemia]

I asked almost the same question in the Xenoblade Chronicles thread because I had the same experience as you. To be blunt, I thought it was a below average game and nothing more than a typical JRPG, but I'm not exactly a fan of the genre anymore. But yeah, the music was *fantastic*. It's easily in my top 10 favorite VGM soundtracks.

Well, I haven't played it but I always here people talk about how good the systems all are and in particularly the quest system. It takes the popular open world and mmo style of game and cuts out all the annoying stuff. That's what I heard. It's by Monolith so I will be biased towards liking it until I play it. Stupid Nintendo has to steal the things I love!

95% of the quests are fetch and/or kill quests with no creativity or storyline to them. It's literally just "Kill 5 of X random monster" or "Collect 5 of Y". That's not content, it's just bloatedness and a stark addiction mechanic. It actually really put me off to the game.

Maybe I'm just shitty that I sold its boring ass back to the used games store I bought it from for like $18 when now it's worth around $100 and is stiiiiillll going up in value.

Edited June 19, 2013 by ectogemia

[Meteo Xavier]

When did "typical JRPG" go from meaning "Dragon Quest clone" to "FFXII clone"? Xenoblade and FFXII are nothing like a "typical" JRPG.

If you want a decent idea why its considered better than FFXII without being much different, remember that the Final Fantasy fanbase and its significance in gaming is pretty fucked up right now. Like every other Final Fantasy that came out after VI, FFXII was not FFVI. Gamers wanted XII to be VI, but it wasn't. FFXII was therefore a disappointment because it did not live up to bullshit standards.

Xenoblade did have enormous hype, but not for the same reason. If you were going to compare it to anything, it was going to be FFXII, which, of course, was a disappointment. Therefore, having a huge Final Fantasy sized RPG exclusively on the Wii was going to be quite a breath of fresh air, even if history doesn't actually validate it.

I haven't played much of Xenoblade yet, only about 10 hours or so, but I see why people wanted it over here so badly. It doesn't matter if its basically FFXII on the Wii, it matters if it's still just fun to play, and Xenoblade lives up to that hype (so far as I know).

Edited June 19, 2013 by Meteo Xavier

[ectogemia]

When did "typical JRPG" go from meaning "Dragon Quest clone" to "FFXII clone"? Xenoblade and FFXII are nothing like a "typical" JRPG.

When time became 2013 and not 1989 and all the JRPGs became like MMOs and less like Dragon Quest.

Xenoblade did have enormous hype, but not for the same reason. If you were going to compare it to anything, it was going to be FFXII, which, of course, was a disappointment. Therefore, having a huge Final Fantasy sized RPG exclusively on the Wii was going to be quite a breath of fresh air, even if history doesn't actually validate it.

What was the hype about Xenoblade, again? Other than the fact it was a large JRPG on the Wii.

I haven't played much of Xenoblade yet, only about 10 hours or so, but I see why people wanted it over here so badly. It doesn't matter if its basically FFXII on the Wii, it matters if it's still just fun to play, and Xenoblade lives up to that hype (so far as I know).

Well that's the thing. Avaris and I didn't find it very fun to play. I have my own reasons, namely that I've just sorta outgrown the genre in general, so don't mind me, but avaris found it to be like FFXII -- an opinion which you seem to agree with -- and both of you describe FFXII as being disappointing and not particularly good or fun. So how is this game, which you describe as similar to FFXII (established by you as "disappointing"), fun?

Sorry to be a nitpicky butthole, but I've just never understood why people elevate this game over so many of its contemporaries when I can't see for the life of me what's so different about it.

[avaris]

I did not say I did not like FFXII. Was it amongst my favorite RPG's? No. I liked it better than Xenoblade bc it had slightly better characters IMO.

I am not a big fan of american rpg's or MMO's either. Find them bland in general.

I agree with the sentiment how FFXII's expectations ruined it. It's like Xenoblade got a pass for some reason. I found it very interesting the disparity in public opinion on the two games despite some of their glaring similarities. I can say without a doubt I "appreciated" Xenoblade bc I didn't expect it to ever come stateside. I am grateful I got a chance to play it.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

It's probably just the sum of all the small things that make people like it more than FFXII.

- you can fast travel to anywhere from anywhere instantly in Xenoblade and not FFXII.

- you never have to return to a quest giver to get rewards for finished quests. In FFXII you do.

- best music and art ever. Some people neither liked FFXII's Star Wars inspired music nor the graphics.

- FFXII has Vaan.

- Xenoblade has jumping.

I don't really know why I'm jumping in here when I haven't even played Xenoblade and FFXII is my favorite one in the series but anyway, upon hearing some of those things, they sounded quite appealing to me.

[Mirby]

I think the question of why Xenoblade is held in higher regard can be answered with but a single word: opinions.

Some prefer FF12, some prefer Xenoblade... and then others like myself like both because they don't compare the two endlessly and enjoy each of them as their own game.

Really, it's all a matter of personal taste.

[Brandon Strader]

I've been openly critical of Final Fantasy XIII but even I bought a new ps3 copy of it (granted it was like $11 for the original black label, non-greatest hits version) Why would I buy it? Because as much of a mess as FF13 was, it is still an enjoyable game with some great music, and memorable characters. FF12 is much the same way for me, I don't consider it to be very good by FF standards but I would play an HD remaster and I would probably enjoy it, the music, the characters, etc. I haven't played Xenoblade Chronicles because it costs hundreds of dollars due to the artificial shortage created by not printing very many copies of it in the US.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

Doesn't that constitue not an artificial shortage but an actual shortage?

[Avatar of Justice]

Yeah, Xenoblade is super overrated. I put 25 hours into it and quit. The fetch quests were lame and the item management is some of the worst I've ever seen.

Every character has five main equipment slots and each of those pieces of equipment has gem slots. Also, each character has eight skill slots. Multiply this by the five party members I had at the time and it's a nightmare. It doesn't help that the the game CONSTANTLY dumps new items on you. I would ignore them, then every hour or so spend 20 minutes equipping the shit I had picked up. And my characters would feel no stronger. So, I sold it. I got back the $50 I paid. I really wished I had hung on to it for another six months. I could've quadrupled my investment. I really don't recall item management being such a problem with FF12. FF12 didn't constantly dump minor equipment upgrades on me. Also, Matsuno wrote the scenario for FF12 which means it had a delicious political story.

Xenoblade's soundtrack was great though and what got me interested in the game in the first place.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

I also heard that the item management really sucks.

It's an mmo style game. Isn't that how the quests are in all games like this?

[ectogemia]

Yeah, Xenoblade is super overrated. I put 25 hours into it and quit. The fetch quests were lame and the item management is some of the worst I've ever seen.

Every character has five main equipment slots and each of those pieces of equipment has gem slots. Also, each character has eight skill slots. Multiply this by the five party members I had at the time and it's a nightmare. It doesn't help that the the game CONSTANTLY dumps new items on you. I would ignore them, then every hour or so spend 20 minutes equipping the shit I had picked up. And my characters would feel no stronger. So, I sold it. I got back the $50 I paid. I really wished I had hung on to it for another six months. I could've quadrupled my investment. I really don't recall item management being such a problem with FF12. FF12 didn't constantly dump minor equipment upgrades on me. Also, Matsuno wrote the scenario for FF12 which means it had a delicious political story.

Xenoblade's soundtrack was great though and what got me interested in the game in the first place.

Lololol, I had totally forgotten all about those friggin' item drops! God, I *feared* going to a merchant because I knew I'd have 300 useless weapons and armor pieces to sell, but on several occasions, I accidentally sold good equipment during the monotomy.

[Jamphibious]

I love the game and all, but there are problems. The whole equipment thing reminds me of Mass Effect 1, you get so much shit but the majority of it you're not even going to use.

The quests themselves aren't that exciting, but the fact that you never have to go back to a quest giver to turn it in is really nice (with a few small exceptions like the watch fixing quest). I tend to just do the collection and kill quests as I travel normally through the world.

The battle system is a lot like FFXII, but I personally found it more engaging, with different abilities having bonus effects based on your positioning, and the whole Monado seeing the future aspect. In Final Fantasy games, unless you know a boss strategy, often times they will use a crazy ability midfight that you are entirely unprepared for, so you learn by trial and error. I recall a boss in the Golmore Jungle in FFXII who pretty much puts every status effect on your party at some point and its ridiculous. Of course many bosses do have some fair tells so you know whats coming, FFX I found had some good boss moments. The Monado future visions is designed to avoid crap where one of your party members or your entire party can easily be one-shot and you instantly lose, which I liked a lot.

I think its a great game, but it was immensely overhyped, and its not for everyone definitely. It didn't singlehandedly revolutionize JRPGs like a lot of people thought, but I felt it did a lot more right than many others I have played.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Amphibious

[avaris]

I think its a great game, but it was immensely overhyped, and its not for everyone definitely. It didn't singlehandedly revolutionize JRPGs like a lot of people though, but I felt it did a lot more right than many others I have played.

I felt in a lot of gameplay aspects Xenoblade was a step in the right direction. But I felt parts of what it gets credit for, for being "revolutionary" FFXII did long before it.

[audio fidelity]

I disagree. For me I felt little connection to the characters and the story was extremely political and confusing. Xenoblade on the other hand had me invested in the characters and was more emotionally driven.

But what's the point in comparing? They are two different stories.

[Admiral_C]

Ya, Xenoblade was just more fun to play for me. And I completed both games.

I don't think you can judge either of them until you've beaten them.

They also didn't seem similar to me at all. Unless you're talking in REALLY broad terms. I don't think the statement that one equals the other is accurate.

[Necrotic]

I like FF12 and I like Xenoblade. :3

I don't see anything wrong with the gameplay style short of making them real-time.

It's the next natural evolution from turn based battles that doesn't involve getting rid of the turn based aspects completely.

If you're complaining that the games aren't real time then yeah, I'll agree, but if you're complaining because you think traditional turn-based is better then you're just straight up wrong.

• You can play most old-school JRPGs just pressing the Attack button over and over again. I'm tired of that being the most meaningful decision to make in an RPG outside of boss battles.
  
• When a game takes care of the auto-attacking, it offloads the meaningless choices and gives you time to actually queue up the rest of your decisions with actual, meaningful, tactical choices. When a game does that I can't help but be fucking ecstatic.
  
• The reason this works well in my eyes is that the games are naturally difficult so you can't rely on the game to auto-attack and play itself for you, minus some really heavy exploiting with the Gambit system. Gambits really only apply to FF12 anyways.
  
• Not only that but the questing system actually rewards you for spending your time in battles. A typical game would give you experience and items for winning a battle. Xenoblade and FF12 do that PLUS more when you decide to actually complete bonus EXP quests.
  They could definitely be more diverse, but the fact that they exist is better than no quests by default. Plus the games do have actual side-quests/side-stories that don't involve fetch quests and grinding monsters for more experience, just like any other RPG.
  
• That said, battles are USUALLY optional!
  

I say this because people shit on these games for their gameplay but won't stop talking about how the good old days of NES- and SNES-era RPGs like FF6 are gone.

I felt in a lot of gameplay aspects Xenoblade was a step in the right direction. But I felt parts of what it gets credit for, for being "revolutionary" FFXII did long before it.

Xenoblade is hardly revolutionary, but after it got released I've never really heard anyone use the word revolutionary to describe it except by people here on OCR trying to make a point of why they don't like it. Maybe I'm just out of touch with the pulse of what people are saying about it. Most of the people I know online and IRL that I've talked to, and I'm talking about people that like the game even, openly talk all the time about how much like FF12 it is.

Anyways, I think they're both great games.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Necrotic

[Foxdyfx]

I'm about half way through xenoblade atm. I like the interface as well as the combat system. Hate the item management, a lot could have been added to make this simpler and more efficient. The quest system is decent, the best part being not having to "cash in" the quests, but I wish the quests contributed more to the world and influenced the towns or something because they feel pretty pointless.

[Ptazza]

XP My friend bloody traded in Xenoblade chronicles *sigh*

Now I find it's a collectors item going for at least £50....

Guess I'll just need to miss this one.

[Swifthom]

FFXII is my favourite RPG on the PS2.

Xenoblade was my favourite on the Wii.

Go figure.

I think the reason it has more critical acclaim amongst fans (remember though that FF12 got 10/10 from Famitsu when it launched, it was LOVED. It's just it launched RIGHT before the PS3 launched so it was made outdated VERY quickly) is that FF12 is compared to other FF games and some people regard it as... well, not doing what they wanted it to do. It might do a LOT of things right but it doesn't do some core FF things very well.

Xenoblade on the other hand draws no comparisons, people go in not knowing what to accept and generall either like/dislike it on its own terms.

[sephfire]

FFXII is still one of my favorite FF games. I hope they give XII the HD treatment once FFX HD is out the door.

[Mirby]

FFXII is still one of my favorite FF games. I hope they give XII the HD treatment once FFX HD is out the door.

Pretty sure they said that if X/X-2HD do well, XII is next on the list.

Perhaps we'll get the IZJS too. Even if FFXIIIZJSHD is quite the acronym XD

[Forrest]

Xenoblade on the other hand draws no comparisons, people go in not knowing what to accept and generall either like/dislike it on its own terms.

Absolutely. 12 was outstanding; great voice acting, wonderfully detailed scenery for its console's limitations, fairly mature and intelligent themes, a unique and deep leveling system.

And yet people found things to complain about because of the departure from, well, anything typically FF.

Each one has been pretty damn enjoyable. I even liked 13, despite my whining in the fashion of its apparent 14 year old effeminate boy demographic upon learning that I was playing the most linear of games ever designed, with completely inhuman and exaggerated characters. So wait, maybe I didn't like 13. But 12? So good.

Forrest

Edited June 24, 2013 by Forrest
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