How you got or could get "good" at composing, producing, or playing music?

[AngelCityOutlaw]

I've been feeling this a lot lately. I recently joined a band as bassist with this excellent self-taught guitarist, but he doesn't know what a scale is, what a semi-tone is compared to a whole tone, what quarter/eighth notes are, or even any chord names besides major or minor, even though he only plays blues type chords. I ask him what rhythms to play and he can't even tell me so he tells me to played around with it. So I wing it and he gets pissed that I can't "feel what I should play in a song."

I might be a slave of sheet music, but a good musician should know what is making something sound a certain way at a basic level (not physics-wise, but music theory-wise) and should be able to communicate it, or at least have the desire to and the drive to learn it. Communication is a big part of creating music.

I agree, but I would not call him an "excellent" self taught guitarist if he doesn't know those things.

Being largely self-taught myself, I would say that the amount of self-taught musicians who actually know their shit compared to those who don't are vastly out numbered. I think that a lot of "selfies" we shall call them tend to have this attitude of "I'm too good to have someone teach me...man". I buried myself in music theory books, videos, read sheet music and learned from other musicians whenever possible to learn everything I know. Most seflies I know have no interest in that and many of them have the balls to say that music theory is "useless" knowledge. What's sad is that a lot of this theory which will help you write better music can be learned in just a day or two.

I personally refuse to jam with any local musician in my city who calls theory "useless", talks about how genre X doesn't have "feeling", or any other bullshit, hippy philosophies about music because it is almost always a clear sign that this person has no respect for actual music and I'm sorry, but I do. You know what's crazy though? In my experience, it's ALWAYS rock/metal musicians that are like this.

Holy shit, I'm sorry for ranting.

[PixelPanic]

I agree, but I would not call him an "excellent" self taught guitarist if he doesn't know those things.

Being largely self-taught myself, I would say that the amount of self-taught musicians who actually know their shit compared to those who don't are vastly out numbered. I think that a lot of "selfies" we shall call them tend to have this attitude of "I'm too good to have someone teach me...man". I buried myself in music theory books, videos, read sheet music and learned from other musicians whenever possible to learn everything I know. Most seflies I know have no interest in that and many of them have the balls to say that music theory is "useless" knowledge. What's sad is that a lot of this theory which will help you write better music can be learned in just a day or two.

I personally refuse to jam with any local musician in my city who calls theory "useless", talks about how genre X doesn't have "feeling", or any other bullshit, hippy philosophies about music because it is almost always a clear sign that this person has no respect for actual music and I'm sorry, but I do. You know what's crazy though? In my experience, it's ALWAYS rock/metal musicians that are like this.

Holy shit, I'm sorry for ranting.

Well, he has good picking technique, good fretboard movement, and he knows the fretboard by the musical alphabet (which confused me because he barely knows what a note IS, but it's a good trait nonetheless). And frankly, about the ranting, right now it's "rant about everyone who is apathetic to actually learning music" time

I mean, my brother is an okay guitarist and he has purchased several books and taken a few lessons from me about theory, as well as memorized the circle of fifths, and I jam with him very well. It took me two hours to learn one of the other guys songs because he would always show what he played on his low E string, not the actual root of the chord, which doesn't help when 3/4 of the time it's the open E. Also, he never kept rhythms and when he played stuff like triplets, I had no reason to expect it and he wouldn't know what he did wrong.

(yay ranting!)

(also probably gonna stop ranting about it here because I don't know exactly HOW on-topic this is)

[timaeus222]

I don't understand what this means here. Because others are self taught, I need to be as well? Is that why others cannot give better advice than assuming you're a music savant who just didn't think to do that?

Sometimes they have been too broad or vague, but most of the time it's a communication barrier or the other person just can't be arsed to be more specific. Half the time, they're not even trying to answer it, focusing more on why I can't just absorb things by osmosis like they did, then I end up having to explain my bizarre brain makeup, then others groan because I'm playing the aspie card again, and only half the topics ever produce anything useful to me.

Sorry to go on ranting about this, but this is a constant source of irritation and I've yet to truly pinpoint what the problem is.

The problem is laziness, seems like. If you take the time to learn something, even if it takes you a year, it's going to work out if you're dedicated and not lazy, or if you have lots of time on your hands. Sound Synthesis, for example, takes loads of time to learn, so it's not your fault until you quit or pause for a significantly long time. If you're good at synthesis, it gets to be pretty fun and satisfying to make a cool sound, and that should motivate you to do more. Honestly, it took me about a year to really learn the ins and outs of Zebra2 and know how to make much of what I hear, but now I can often recreate or generalize how to recreate what I hear, which is quite useful.

Edited October 15, 2013 by timaeus222

[Rozovian]

I wish people would actually explain these principles out better instead of just saying, "Derp, just listen to a shitload of music and fiddle with stuff and you'll get it."

Yeah, well, you can't learn to build a house right just by staying in one for a few weeks and banging your tools everywhere. Every time I ask for advice or how to do something (because MIDIs and tutorials currently available only go so far for the most part), that's by and large the first and often only answer I ever get. Drives me nuts.

You need to turn whatever it is you're struggling with into something that make sense, find a language for it, something. I did this with the audio signal, learning both the spectrum and the waveform side of it. Once I had that, I could more effectively "fiddle with stuff" like synths and get something closer to what I wanted. I could more effectively place instruments together. I could more effectively design the sounds I wanted. I could more effectively process it all.

Just fiddling with something will get you familiar with it, but it can only take you so far.

[SnappleMan]

I don't understand what this means here. Because others are self taught, I need to be as well? Is that why others cannot give better advice than assuming you're a music savant who just didn't think to do that?

Sometimes they have been too broad or vague, but most of the time it's a communication barrier or the other person just can't be arsed to be more specific. Half the time, they're not even trying to answer it, focusing more on why I can't just absorb things by osmosis like they did, then I end up having to explain my bizarre brain makeup, then others groan because I'm playing the aspie card again, and only half the topics ever produce anything useful to me.

Sorry to go on ranting about this, but this is a constant source of irritation and I've yet to truly pinpoint what the problem is.

To me it sounds like the problem might be you not learning things on your terms. You know how you brain works, the next step is you figuring out how to teach yourself. I don't mean being "self taught", I mean figuring out how to properly convert the information that you get from lessons, peers, videos etc into a format that your brain can absorb and hold on to.

[Necrox]

I'm still on my way up of achieving "good" status but I just wanted to comment.

I feel this applies to me exactly except with drums. I brought my sticks everywhere--I'd play on the dashboard while my brother was driving, I'd bring it on vacations and play on my legs, pillows, ironing boards, the back of my arms. There's this weird disconnect for me between how good I was at drums and how easy it was for me in high school, to now, where everything regarding music production is a slow, frustrating struggle.

Anyway, to try and answer the OP, I've been halfheartedly trying a lot of things, such as making bad remixes (PRC), making bad original music (OHC), buying music books (and never reading them), but I feel the biggest stride for me so far was the recent WCRG because my teammates were kind of obligated (hehe) to listen to my track and give me feedback, that helped a lot, in addition to the reviews by other competitors.

Oh man, this was my case. I've been a drummer for years, and I felt that I was decent. Music making was hard for me and still is, I buy the books and hardly read them too, and I've had FL since last Christmas, but I have yet to even finish a track. In addition, external circumstances have taken my drums away, so now, I'm not good at either skill

[Esperado]

Music making was hard for me and still is, I buy the books and hardly read them too, and I've had FL since last Christmas, but I have yet to even finish a track.

Check out the competitions section of the forum! I was gonna refrain from posting in this one since i dont think im "good" yet. However! I had the same problem until i decided to try out the PRC and some of the other competitions. They force you to stop overthinking and just make something. you can learn tutorials and stuff all you want, but if you dont put it into practice, you wont get anywhere. I few competitions in and i already felt like i had come really far.

[timaeus222]

Check out the competitions section of the forum! I was gonna refrain from posting in this one since i dont think im "good" yet. However! I had the same problem until i decided to try out the PRC and some of the other competitions. They force you to stop overthinking and just make something. you can learn tutorials and stuff all you want, but if you dont put it into practice, you wont get anywhere. I few competitions in and i already felt like i had come really far.

Very true. With compos you just have to compose as fast as you can, and polish later. Doing it a lot will help your workflow.

[Garpocalypse]

Seconded about the competitions. They are a fantastic source of motivation and will help you set deadlines and get things completed.

[dannthr]

How you got or could get "good" at composing, producing, or playing music?

The moment I committed to an unrelenting pursuit of better.

Realizing that the stuff I create is the life I live and how can I let that life be anything less than the best it can possibly be?

[Spi.der.men]

I don't consider myself good, but I think once I get a basic understanding on the concept of mixing I'll be one step closer!

[Necrox]

How: I really do feel that an Increased understanding of music theory, becoming a better guitar player and writing with notation rather than with DAWs helped me realize my musical ideas more than anything else. In regards to the latter, I've often mentioned that I was a music technology Luddite until 2010. At that point, I started writing most of my music using the piano roll or playing it in via MIDI keyboard in real time. Though I certainly feel I wrote decent music in that time, I believe it was nothing compared to what I wrote, but never recorded in the times before then and now. I've returned to writing with my guitar, tab and notation and I feel it is how I write best.

The reasons why are many and varied.

- I'm much more familiar with using sheet music and guitar tab

- It removes the distraction of searching for the best sound to compose with.

- It allows me to practice playing the piece I have written in its entirety before I record it. I believe this is the best way to improve technical skill on an instrument as well.

- It gives me an easy to read, visual representation of everything that is happening in the score. This allows me to better understand how all of my instruments will work together and makes it easier to write counter-melody.

- I find it easier to plan and layout a composition and/or arrangement with notation software than with a DAW

and many more.

Turning point: I'd say I was the best guitar player I ever was when I was 15-18 years old. If I wasn't working, partying, or skipping school, I was playing guitar. One summer vacation, I didn't hang out with any of my friends or go on any trips. I just played guitar till my fingers hurt and kept auditioning band members or jamming at open mic nights. I had no interest in doing anything else but playing and writing music. Looking back, if I would have taken the plunge and moved to a city with a better metal music scene like I always talked about doing....good things might have happened.

Turning point 2: Age 18. I got tired of most members of bands I'd play with never being serious about actual music and decided to just do shit on my own and see if I could break into writing music for video games. This is when I started to write other genres; mostly electronic and funk music. Around this time is when I found the OCR forums and some members here told me about FL Studio. This is a turning point because obviously, this is when I learned about virtual instruments, DAWs etc. and how I could make recorded music, collaborate and learn from others across vast distances.

Where in the heck did you find time for all that in high school?

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Where in the heck did you find time for all that in high school?

Because I rarely bothered to attend highschool and when I was there my teachers wished I wasn't. Then they eventually told me to GTFO and I complied.

[Necrox]

Wow, I've never even been sent to the principal's office. As for the topic, I agree that competitions are helpful. I made a submission to MnP and my work flowed much more smoothly than usual.

[Meteo Xavier]

I just want to chime in to say that neglecting school for whatever reason is not ok and can be highly damaging to one's pursuit of music, professionally or not. Always pursue an education and commit to it.

Sorry, I just kinda felt like Angel's post there seems to be glamorizing truancy in favor of being an artist, and besides driving me nuts, that shit rarely works in real life.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

I just want to chime in to say that neglecting school for whatever reason is not ok and can be highly damaging to one's pursuit of music, professionally or not. Always pursue an education and commit to it.

Sorry, I just kinda felt like Angel's post there seems to be glamorizing truancy in favor of being an artist, and besides driving me nuts, that shit rarely works in real life.

Neglecting highschool has had literally no negative impact on my life at all. Now, I'm a college student with zero debt and all I had to do was upgrade English. Highschool is a joke.

I also had auditioned for the local college's music program when I first attended. That required a performance and music theory exam which I managed to pass just fine despite having virtually no formal training. I decided not to do the music degree thing, but the only reason I was able to pass that audition and exam without formal training was because of all the time I spent on music when I should have been in class. Prior to that, I got the opportunity when I was 18 to work with a more experienced composer and producer on an indie-game. Something most 18 year olds probably haven't done.

I'm not saying people should go ahead and drop out of highschool and join a rock band, but don't try to tell me that spending more time focusing on music instead of math class is damaging to your pursuit of music.

If it's a pursuit of money and benefit plans you're after though....by all means, spend as little time with music as you can.

[GallenWolf]

For me it's definitely simply putting in time and effort to write music.

In addition, it helps greatly that I have a very experienced mentor to look at my work and point out what I could have done better, and if what I did was good.