Metroid Prime 2 'Stir of Echoes' RESUB 11/25

[avaris]

thats cool, thanks splunkle. The note was off key, must be bc i sit sideways. The harmony note by the backing was too close in relation to the note also. I have a habit of using delayed piano, bells, or harp in anyhing I make so hopefully I can get it down right. It did take me awhile to get this one good though. The song is ripped at 192, but at a syncdepth at 6 point hermite(takes 10-12 mins to rip, if i do any higher its almost 45 mins to rip) When I make a final one, it'll be at 256 syncdepth.

Radiowar, I'll play with the chord structure

around that note. That (C E A C) is from the source tune not me, that's why I hadn't touched it before. The high note the melody is playin is what I put in there though. The whole melody in that part follows that pattern, they are tripling the third everytime. I'll try to fix it, thanks. But I'f have to change the whole structure. I'll rip an mp3 where the chords will only be in the pattern of C E A (i'll take out that high notes in the chords)

[avaris]

update, only big change is at the entrance at 2:36, all the volume starts to fade and then a breakout

Of course this leaves two breakouts in around 20 secs of eachother, might be too much, might not, tell me what ya think

that part at 3:36, I just cut the note out.

I also lowered the volume of the pads from 3:36 on

[avaris]

Alrighty this is the version I am going to submit in the next day or two unless anyone can come up with any feedback on parts that need to be changed or any creative arrangement ideas to try out. If anyone think this song needs another part in it to make it stand out more or anything of that nature please let me know.

I've really put alot into this mix, right now I am at a "writers block" I have done about all I can to do for this mix. I believe it has a pretty good chance to get accepted. I also have other mix ideas and projects that I want to take on and work at.

Mad props to everyone who has helped out with this mix: Radiowar, Splunkle, Break Tekk, Doomsday, and God...oops this ain't an awards show haha. In my opinion there are alot newer remixers like myself who are in the WIP forums that have alot of talent and will prob all get a song on the site one day with enough work and practice. If by chance in ur opinion this song has no shot of getting on(i respect your opinion) let me know. Peace.

[Radiowar]

Well I think this song has definitely improved a LOT since your first version, so that's good. To be honest I can't see this making it onto the site for a variety of reasons, but I think you did a really good job developing the ideas you had, and it works a lot better as a standlone song. But that's just me.

Best of luck with this.

[Chickenwarlord]

The rainstick sound is a little too present methinks. First synth is a little hollow sounding, but it's not too bad.

Second time you echo that little theme halfway through doesn't really fit well, but I understand why it's there.

I have the feeling that this should be more dynamically varied.

Near the end the high notes ringing is a tad distracting (ergh, I need to find a better word).

Still well done, just a few touch-up issues. After all, I am only one person, and this will most likely appeal more to others.

[Splunkle]

Listened to the latest version. No more streaming issues! yay! Clear as a... really clear thing. ANYWAYS, this is much much better. I'm not hearing any bass dominating everything, so you should be fine there. I would say that this has a fairly good chance at the panel - not that I'm really experienced or anything. But even if the panel rejects it, they will tell you why - so then you have something to fix, no?

Good luck!

[about:blank]

This has a very nice feel to it, and I think you did a good job of making the song your own. I'm really enjoying all of the ambience that you've put into this song. The piano outro that starts around 3:57, sounds great, and the wind effects that you have going along with it compliment it nicely. The outro leaves a nice lasting impression, which is definitely a good thing.

I don't have many complaints regarding this song. I think there was a part around 2:53 that had a kind of dissonant sounding ring. It's faint, but it kind of detracts from the mellow mood of the song in my opinion.

That being said, I really like your take on the song. I don't know if it will get accepted or not, but there's only one way to find out.

Good luck!

[FiremanJoe]

I like this mix alot. Only thing I don't like about it is the sound that starts at about :50, and continues throughout the song. Perhaps change or remove it..

I loved the piano at 4:00, reminded me alot of the Resident Evil movie soundtrack. Nice touch, greatly adds to the atmosphere of the track.

Keep up the good work, and the best of luck to you.

[JH Sounds]

It won't be long now...

[avaris]

Wow im surprised this was still on the forums. Yeah I'm waiting in anticipation. It's prob gonna be 3 weeks before I get word on it. Sucks darkesword beat me to the punch for getting this source tune posted first. Of course he did his track a long time ago. Ds' track is pretty friggin sweet though. Gotta give him credit on he reworked the main melody in the beggining that was impressive.

Thanks for all the comments guys!

[avaris]

Well it got rejected. I am actually glad bc there were a lot things I noticed about a month or 2 after I submitted that I wanted to change. And guess what I friggin did.

New Version (UPDATED 1/7) Version 999,999

http://swallace21.googlepages.com/StirofEchoes6melody.mp3

[E-Bison]

Metroid eh?

You have some great sounds! I love the rain stick! But you're posting on the WIP forrum so I would imagine you want some advice.

Issues:

Too muddy: Pull back some of the delay/verb. If you're digging the wash of reverb thing in the very least you need to EQ the reverb channel away from the bass frq and lower mids. This will give you epic reverb without freq overlap and mud.

Lost Bass: Your bass is there... you just need a new one that takes up more of the upper sound spectrum. Find one that cuts more and sound cleaner. Something with a huge Rez filter and High pass cuttof would be wicked. There had better not be reverb on that bass!

The big Pad: Run a High pass filter on this bad boy at least 150 hz. This will let people hear all the stuff you are doing.

Epic Bass Drum: Totaly cool for your ambient intro, not so cool when mixed with all sorts of other elements. You can't be 100% epic all the time. Less is more in this case.

Hope this helps.

Oh... And if you can find a way to pull some lofi effect on that piano outro, that might be cool.

E-Bison

[Safaex]

Hello! I just wanted to pop in and say it sounds alot better than before and overall very good . The one thing that bothers me the most though, is that the whole track sounds almost like it comes from a pipe... a valve? My english vocabulary isn't the greatest so it's hard to explain. It's like some filter is affecting all the layers making it sound funny. The brighter the tone/layer is, the more I notice it. Try to listen from 2:20 as it is from that point it becomes the most obvious to me.

Maybe it's intentional? Imo it would sound better without it.

Best Regards

Safaex

[Ronyn]

Well, you know how to make your stuff sound good, so just keep being self critical and I'm sure it'll all improve.

My beef from listening to the original, and it did improve in the second version a little, is that I think the music relys a little to heavily on ambience. Most of the music in the first version you could almost add lightning strikes to and release it as a relaxation track. I think it could use more structured melody, and development of that melody, don't wander off too far or we might forget what song you're remixing. At about 2:27 of the second version is more like it.

Not too sure about the rain effect either...doesn't seem to blend, it draws too much attention to itself I think.

[Top Dollar]

James George pretty much sums it up. I like the idea behind the mix, but either make it shorter (when the refined part kicks in, I unfortunately already lost my interest) or add some more structure. Ambient and structure don't have to exclude each other.

Other than that, I think the mix has a lot of potential. Good luck!

[Splunkle]

E-Bison seems to have covered most of the production issues.

Hahahahahaha I just got to the Bass. Awesome. Though perhaps a bit intense in comparisson to the rest of the song.

You seems to know what to do, so its sounding good.

[avaris]

Wow thanks for all the comments guys. And E-Bison I think you just solved my "muddy" problem that I experience in all my mixes. I've been implementing some your advice and it's really breathing new life into all of my songs.

OK, so I've been working on the piano part. This is a lil something I threw together to maybe use in the intro. So go ahead and tear my piano playing apart. Tell me what sections of this I should work into the piano and parts suck.

http://avaris.studios.googlepages.com/EchoesPiano.mp3

Soon as I get the piano squared away, I am going give you guys an update with all of the mastering that's been added.

Also I'm gonna try taking out the heartbeat in the beggining, but I'm going to add it t the 2nd intro. Except in the 2nd intro its goin to be played by that crazy LFO bass.

So there will be a nice update once I get the piano done, I just need some comments on it. What ideas out of this do u like and which do u not. Also if anyone is really good pianist I'd really appreciate some tips on it.

Thanks guys n gals.

[Martin Penwald]

Is it just me, or is that whole piano thing unbelievably quiet? Turn up the volume, please.

[avaris]

I played it at extremely low velocity levels on purpose. But the volume will be turned up on it when it is put into the song. I actually have the piano fleshed out more, and will hit you guys up with an update prob sometime next weekend as my classes are kicking my ass this week.

[avaris]

Bump for great justice!

UPDATE 11/14

http://swallace21.googlepages.com/StirofEchoes3.mp3

The first part now contains piano played played by yours truly. I ain't the greatest but I think it works.

Added more depth to leads in the 2nd part. Worked on transition into the ending and to the 2nd part.

The song is below 4 mins now Who woulda thought.

Anyways I'm getting close to submitting this again. Any thoughts on it good/bad don't matter to me.

Thanks dudes

[Evilride]

Ooh, this is nice. I normally don't go for this kind of stuff, but DANG, this is good. It's a good song for if you're sad, or if you want to calm down for some reason. I like how it sounds all echo-ish for the piano thing, I think that's a cool effect. Definitely try to get this posted, it's awesome.

[Splunkle]

Wow, you really brutalised that piano, didn't you. I'm not really hearing anything to do with the melody here... ah wait, here we go, at 1:33, that etheral synth comes in with the main line... but thats more than a third into the track.

Hmmmm. It still seems a bit messy - cut back on that verb and delays some more. I know you really want all the verb and delay to be there when the instrument is exposed, but when evrythign has huge amounts of verb and they are all playing, it gets muddy. I think you might be able to solve this by either automating the FX units - simply turn the delay off, and reduce the amount or decay time on the verb during the crowded bits.

EDIT: just re-listened on my speakers, rather then my headphones, and it sounded less muddy. So mayhaps my headphones are boosting speakers that result in muddyness. Probably the mid-range somewhere, 250-1000 Hz I think. Anyways, try playing it on lots and lots of different speakers and enviroments, so you can EQ with precision.

[Radiowar]

you went overboard with the pads here i think. but this version sounds like it has more direction to it than the original, so that's good. i think you can create whatever atmosphere you're going for without the pads sounding so metallic too.

[avaris]

OK this is prob my final update on this song. My inspiration and creativity has just about run it's course with this track. But I'll prob still find something to change regardless.

http://avaris.studios.googlepages.com/StirofEchoes3.mp3

I cut back on the reverb even more, EQ'ed it a little bit. Took a good deal of sustain and release off of the piano in the ambient section. Also messed with little things here and there.

Any comments at all are welcome. Have at it.

Big thing clipping for you guys anywhere? My speakers are shot as is so...

Thanks guys n gals.

[Ronyn]

Haven't had a lot of time to be around lately, but I did make it a point to listen to this update.

To answer your question, it did sound like a some instruments were pushing out some distortion and fuzz. At first I thought it was just the bass heavy mid section, but I can hear it all over slightly. Distorting on purpose? I'd double check your EQ's too, make sure you didn't amplify some fuzzy freqs accidentally either. Probably check your compression too.

I think the last half is stronger than the first half, and the trick will be to keep people listening long enough to hear the good parts later. I think in the first half, the sonic soundscape overshadows and overpowers the musical content. In the second half, they work together much better. 3:20 is probably the most sonically simple section of your music, yet oddly enough, the most musically powerful. I really think less is more in this case.

The mix as a whole, largely due to the scoundscape dominating the first half, seems too dripping wet. I know ambience is the goal, but every track doesn't have to have spacey reverb in ambient music. Still not a fan of that (rainmaker?) effect either. It would be better if it kind of faded in and out, ethereal-like, but I can actually hear it starting and stopping out of nowhere-sharply, and no offense, it sounds like someone using the bathroom (imo) or operating a faucet. The panned spaced out tweets at 0:50 that come in don't match the emotional mood of the piano trying to play. In general, the FX really distract from the piano and pads altogehter. They are playing some very beautiful lines that would really be moving if not for the obnoxious FX screaming "look at me!" Look for FX that compliment the piano and pads, not compete (i.e. maybe use a piano plunk or similar kind of sound as the source sample for the tweets? might have a neat kind of psychic echo effect or something).

If you're burnt out on this one, step back from it from a while. I know if you come back to it later, when you haven't heard it for a while, you'll hear lots you didn't before, and maybe by then have thought up some solutions. I also know you're working on like, 10 million projects right now. Just be careful not to stretch yourself out too much. Quality is infinitely better than quantity, and it would be a shame to see your quality suffer because you want this mix over and done with.

Sorry if I'm being too harsh. It really is beautiful to listen to, but someone with your talent really deserves some effective feedback at your level. I've heard your mixes and I know you can really blow people away with this mix, I'm guessing you're a little tired by now though.

Submitted or re-worked, good luck!