Liontamer Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bottle Rocket Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 gatdamn! this is some sweet orchestralings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neifion Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 The orchestration and arrangement is good, but honestly I disagree with the judges about the emotion and performance of the samples. To me it all sounds rather flat, keyboard-y, the sustains have plenty of weird bumps in dynamics (high strings dipping suddenly at 2:38) and seem to be devoid of dynamic breathing (arcing the dynamics within a note, not referring to the dynamics of the song overall.), and the legato transitions on all sections need work. Particularly, the solo violin portamento at 2:43 and then the fast legato at 2:50 stand out as sounding pretty fake (also kind of weird hearing it on the right side where the cellos are). The Friedlander has a lot of control, but you have to be careful because some of its performance quirks lend to an exaggerated legato. Also, layering in different articulations for the string sections (V1s on normal with V2s on tremolo harmony, for example) instead of just plain sustains all the time could introduce some more interesting musical textures, and help break up the blocky pad sounds of the violins from 1:13-1:39, for instance. Listening to live orchestras and noting the dynamic range and how it brings out emotion, and translating that to match the phrasing and note-to-note arcings, would be a help. As it is now, it sounds a lot like playing the keys and not enough controlling of the CCs (dynamics, vibrato) in a musical way. Eino Keskitalo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I disagree, I think the emotion is definitely there, and I don't hear any substantial flaws worth pointing out. The issues Neifion mentioned weren't really that noticeable. Even 2:50 sounded quite serviceable. This is great as-is. Keep dishing out the goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoeTaKa Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 The orchestration and arrangement is good, but honestly I disagree with the judges about the emotion and performance of the samples. etc etc Thank you for your feedback. This was literally the first time I had used these samples and was made just over a year ago. I wish it didn't take so long for remixes to be evaluated and posted but that's the predicament. I am far more experienced in how to control these samples now. I know some of my future submissions have issues because of the lack of experience with these samples but there's nothing I can do about that unless they're rejected. My computer is still not powerful enough to use these the way I would like so I know in this song I used just the split sustain patches (at the time I had 8GB of RAM and after this I immediately got another 8GB). I also know about the legato you're talking about with the Friedlander and have gotten much more used to writing with it. As I listen now I think nearly all the legato here should be tighter. I'm sorry you weren't able to enjoy the arrangement more because of the issues you mentioned. And thanks Timaeus, I will keep trying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neifion Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I disagree, I think the emotion is definitely there, and I don't hear any substantial flaws worth pointing out. The issues Neifion mentioned weren't really that noticeable. Even 2:50 sounded quite serviceable. This is great as-is. Keep dishing out the goodness. Not noticeable to you, perhaps, but they definitely were to me. I don't know your experience level with emotive orchestral music, but I have a high standard for it; it's my main focus and I do a fair amount of orchestral film scoring. I didn't say it was poorly done, just pointed out some things that I hope will help. Thank you for your feedback. This was literally the first time I had used these samples and was made just over a year ago. I wish it didn't take so long for remixes to be evaluated and posted but that's the predicament. I am far more experienced in how to control these samples now. I know some of my future submissions have issues because of the lack of experience with these samples but there's nothing I can do about that unless they're rejected. My computer is still not powerful enough to use these the way I would like so I know in this song I used just the split sustain patches (at the time I had 8GB of RAM and after this I immediately got another 8GB). I also know about the legato you're talking about with the Friedlander and have gotten much more used to writing with it. As I listen now I think nearly all the legato here should be tighter. I'm sorry you weren't able to enjoy the arrangement more because of the issues you mentioned. And thanks Timaeus, I will keep trying! I hear you, and sorry if my feedback sounded at all harsh. Like I said, it's pretty solid overall, but could just use some more attention on the performance. 8GB is definitely a challenge to work with for a full orchestral template; I have 32GB these days and I would really love to bring it to 64. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Not noticeable to you, perhaps, but they definitely were to me. I don't know your experience level with emotive orchestral music, but I have a high standard for it; it's my main focus and I do a fair amount of orchestral film scoring. I didn't say it was poorly done, just pointed out some things that I hope will help. Thes are some of my standards: https://soundcloud.com/stephen-anderson/unity https://soundcloud.com/stephen-anderson/i-am-the-sentinel-credits So my standards are quite high (I'm not saying I compose like that, but I do hear how good that is). I'm just evaluating specifically in terms of OCR's standards, which are actually lower. I feel like your standards are the real-life film-score-level standards, which the above two links would be; but OCR's standards aren't quite that high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neifion Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Thes are some of my standards: https://soundcloud.com/stephen-anderson/unity https://soundcloud.com/stephen-anderson/i-am-the-sentinel-credits So my standards are quite high (I'm not saying I compose like that, but I do hear how good that is). I'm just evaluating specifically in terms of OCR's standards, which are actually lower. I feel like your standards are the real-life film-score-level standards, which the above two links would be; but OCR's standards aren't quite that high. Those two links you listed are not film score quality; the first is good enough for trailer music (which it was, from my understanding), the second is for a low-budget indie fantasy B-film. (Coincidentally, I got approached by Arrowstorm Entertainment for one of their fantasy films, turned it down though). They're decently programmed (writing is pretty generic, but that's another critique for another day), but not above what the bulk of working composers in the industry are putting out. It's fine that you were evaluating to OCR standards, but like you said, they're not that high (even lower for orchestral, which I feel is disappointing). I just wanted to give him feedback in general to improve; why stop at OCR standards when he can do better? He seems to want to continue improving, so no point in stopping where he is just because it's OCR-approved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Those two links you listed are not film score quality; the first is good enough for trailer music (which it was, from my understanding), the second is for a low-budget indie fantasy B-film. (Coincidentally, I got approached by Arrowstorm Entertainment for one of their fantasy films, turned it down though). They're decently programmed (writing is pretty generic, but that's another critique for another day), but not above what the bulk of working composers in the industry are putting out. It's fine that you were evaluating to OCR standards, but like you said, they're not that high (even lower for orchestral, which I feel is disappointing). I just wanted to give him feedback in general to improve; why stop at OCR standards when he can do better? He seems to want to continue improving, so no point in stopping where he is just because it's OCR-approved. Well then your standards are a bit too high then, because I honestly thought those two were the best film-score music I've ever heard, and they are most certainly film-score quality. Really, the bass mixing there is just spot-on, whether it was for a "low-budget" film or not, and those songs wow me every time. RoeTaka's ReMix was great; didn't wow me, but I still thought it was great. I dunno, your posts here just came off as arrogant to me, and the way you put a paragraph of critique but less than a sentence of compliment just de-emphasized the compliment IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Well then your standards are a bit too high then, because I honestly thought those two were the best film-score music I've ever heard, and they are most certainly film-score quality. Really, the bass mixing there is just spot-on, whether it was for a "low-budget" film or not, and those songs wow me every time. RoeTaka's ReMix was great; didn't wow me, but I still thought it was great. I dunno, your posts here just came off as arrogant to me, and the way you put a paragraph of critique but less than a sentence of compliment just de-emphasized the compliment IMO. Jeez, put your gun back in the holster. I didn't get to vote on this, but Neifion's criticisms are perfectly fine, and come from experience. As far as the praise vs. criticism being "imbalanced", you need to read what he said. The very first thing was "The orchestration and arrangement is good...", so it's clear the post isn't some attack. It reads to me like you're the one needlessly causing the friction. There really shouldn't be any problem here. For Alex, if you ever have a mix waiting to be posted, but want to revise it before it goes up, just contact me or another judge and ask for us to wait until you create a revised version. We've definitely had people ask to do that before. Actually, the next mix to be posted did just that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neifion Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Well then your standards are a bit too high then, because I honestly thought those two were the best film-score music I've ever heard. Really, the bass mixing there is just spot-on, whether it was for a "low-budget" film or not. I dunno, that just came off as arrogant to me, and the way you put a paragraph of critique but less than a sentence of compliment just de-emphasized the compliment IMO. From reading some of your critiques, I find your statement about me a bit hypocritical. But I know you're just being honest and trying to help, which I am too. As for standards, your thinking that those two tracks were the best film music you ever heard has no bearing on whether mine are too high or not. To each their own, although I think if you're evaluating orchestral music on bass mixing then that's a little weird (of course bass, rhythm, and the demand for "epic" and "BWAH" seem to have toppled having a lyrical, memorable melody in this day and age). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Ah, well, I'm not trying to attack him; just giving him my perspective. *shrug* And yes, those were the best I've ever heard, really. I'm not just judging based on bass mixing, but clearly, that composer knows how to mix and master, and I did think that melody on "I am the Sentinel" was memorable. But seriously, come on, let's not go overboard here and call me a hypocrite. It doesn't do anything other than draw attention away from the fine job RoeTaka did here. /end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neifion Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Ah, well, I'm not trying to attack him; just giving him my perspective. *shrug* And yes, those were the best I've ever heard, really. I'm not just judging based on bass mixing, but clearly, that composer knows how to mix and master, and I did think that melody on "I am the Sentinel" was memorable. But seriously, come on, let's not go overboard here and call me a hypocrite. It doesn't do anything other than draw attention away from the fine job RoeTaka did here. /end I said your statement was hypocritical, because I've seen you post critiques listing a lot of problems and no praise. Don't think that's quite as overboard as calling me arrogant. You're right though, this is about RoeTaka, and like I said, he did a solid job with some ways to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoeTaKa Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I hear you, and sorry if my feedback sounded at all harsh. Like I said, it's pretty solid overall, but could just use some more attention on the performance. 8GB is definitely a challenge to work with for a full orchestral template; I have 32GB these days and I would really love to bring it to 64. It's quite alright it didn't come across as harsh at all. I'm fairly used to the tough love around here anyway. Honestly I do like to get pointers and tips from experienced composers that specialize in digital orchestra because I really don't personally know any. And yeah it is definitely a challenge working with a low spec computer haha. I'm so used to it, I don't even know what I'd do with a top of the range one. But I really feel what I am creating now is far more improved, perhaps if you felt like checking it out Neifion maybe you could check out my youtube in my sig? Larry, I didn't know that was possible I assumed that it would take more time and require a resub. I was only thinking of some touch ups, nothing considerable...it really depends if they're considered flaws that stand out but we'll see I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I do recall Sir Jordanius being *that guy* who holds up his subs until he's completely happy with them, and I think that's totally fine! I think Larry's chill enough to be flexible like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimeTower Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I don't know what was going on with all the sample discussion - all I know is how this piece makes me feel, and this mix is transportive and resonant.Major props for the depth here; I really felt like I was on a journey during the piece. Well done!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crulex Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Pretty good orchestral arrangement with good pacing and instrumentation choices, as it did come off as a natural flow. While there are things that could be nitpicked at, in the end, it's about what sounds good and works, and this sounds good and works for me, so I can dig it. Not bad, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKyle Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Seems like some of this response thread got into a level of detail that can get mired rather quickly in subjectivity. There are plenty of professionally recorded/mixed/mastered albums, scores, suites, tracks, etc that have been created over the past 50 years that are lauded, praised, and respected for their overall stunning execution...and they have flaws. Noticeable flaws. Things that almost jump out when played back through a decent system in a dedicated environment. But as music is a subjective and personal experience, so shall be the critiques. And from a logical standpoint, they are all equal since they are in there very nature, opinions. We put our music out here for others to digest. If someone comments on your work and says "This isn't very good", that doesn't actually mean it isn't very good. That's just their opinion. Well-guided, educated, and experienced perhaps...but still an opinion. As well, a true virtuoso who knows the nature of their craft will almost always comment that they are learning, experimenting, improving... Crulex, agreed. If you dig it, you dig it. I get the crits, but all in all, I dig it. Well done RoeTaKa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chernabogue Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Man, if I'm the Alex who's crazy about Castlevania, then RoeTaKa is the Alex who's crazy about the Souls series lol. Another great arrangement -- the breakdown in the middle was a fine addition. I could agree on a few things that were said before my review (some articluations especially), but my own remixes aren't as good as this one, so that's far from being a problem. As always, nice arrangement and production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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