OCR04341 - *YES* Star Fox Adventures "A Sacred Place"

[Rexy]

Link

ReMixer name: Tremendouz

OCR userid: 37103

Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/Tremendouz

 

Name of game: Star Fox Adventures

Name of arrangement: A Sacred Place

Name of source material: Krazoa Palace (composed by David Wise)

Link to source material:

 

Comments regarding the arrangement:

 

"I've never played a Star Fox game in my life but when I discovered this magical soundtrack by David Wise, I knew I had to arrange something from it. "Krazoa Palace" immediately stood out to me since I'm a huge fan of minimalistic, atmospheric tracks.

 

The arrangement idea started from me playing around with a harp VST and way too much delay/reverb. This resulted in an interesting texture so I kept adding layers of different sounds to it ranging from synth pads to electric piano to chinese bawu, just to mention a few. Add in some distorted guitars, bass, drums and the result is this rather strange mix of styles. As usual, everything was done with virtual instruments (what a great time to be a bedroom producer!)."
 

Thank you for your time!
-Tremendouz
 

Edited January 23, 2022 by XPRTNovice
testing my edit permissions

[Emunator]

What an incredible source tune - I believe that Dave Wise's work for Star Fox Adventures is some of his most underrated work, and I'm so grateful that others are inspired by it!

Starting off, the synth patch that you used in the intro doesn't have enough movement or depth to function as a drone, and in general doesn't feel adequate enough to set the mood. I would experiment with either layering in other synth sounds, adding in octave harmonies to give it more of a full sound, or simply trying out some different patches.

The bawu is a very interesting choice that carries your melody well! I do notice certain points where the volume of the instrument tails off and it gets lost under the rest of the instruments, such as the 1:10 mark. Some compression to normalize those quieter notes will fix that up with no problem. Similarly, the synth lead at 2:11 is pretty quiet in the mix.

The guitars sound great, both in terms of mixing and sequencing. They wouldn't have even registered as VST instruments if you didn't specifically mention it. Everything clicks into place when those enter - this remix is at its best when the guitars are present, in my opinion. The only issue that jumps out to me during those sections is the drum mix, which noticeably lacks much high-end presence and could stand to be EQ'd or saturated to reintroduce some of that high-end crunch.

At the end of the day, you've got a very strong arrangement but a number of technical miscues that warrant a second pass in my book. If this ends up not passing, I'd be happy to work with you directly to help iron out some of these issues so we can get this posted. The world needs more Star Fox Adventures representation!

NO (resubmit!)

[prophetik music]

wow, great original.

agreed that the opening drone needs more depth. it's actually a lot louder than the harp which inspired the start. the bawu though is really carefully handled in a very idiomatic manner - nice work. i'd love to hear more movement in that synth drone under it.

the guitars sound great. agree with emu that the drums need some verve, although i didn't mind the high EQ content in this as much as you did. i'll note that the bass especially on higher notes get some machine-gun effect - you may need to play with the velocities to get some flex there. i thought the bawu sounded fine at 1:10, but found the cello at 1.18 to be difficult to hear. i'd suggest either starting that section in a higher octave (sacrificing a little drama from a rising line to instead allow it to be clearly heard) or lightening the backing parts for the first part of the cello's line. when the guitar takes over the lead, it sounds fantastic.

the break at 1:55 is great. i found the squelchy synth to be a bit too bright to start - maybe start with the filter a little tighter and make it a more gradual change?

the zipper synth coming at 2:07 is an interesting stylistic choice. i like the concept - echoing another ethnic instrument - but it doesn't seem to really go anywhere (it kinda meanders) and it is fairly quiet. this is exacerbated by an aggressive background. this is an opportunity to break up the bass and drum groove and go with something different for a bit before having your lead come back in at 2:36. along those lines, the sequencing on the guitar becomes evident the last time through after it sounds essentially the exact same as the last few times it's played. since this is the penultimate phrase of the piece, go all out! making it be something more unique to send off your listeners will keep them coming back. even just a fast riff or a higher ending pitch will make a big difference. along those lines, allowing your synths to sustain a touch past the end of the last bar (or at least finishing their riff on beat 1 of the last bar, rather than an offbeat) will help make sure your ending feel like an ending, and your fadeout sound like it's on pitch...there's a bit of detuning effect right now that's a bit offputting.

overall? it's a little too apparent that this is a bedroom producer track (). the drums and bass are obviously loops, the lead guitar lick is repeated in the same form too much, and the opening synths need some verve. i would suggest putting some woodshedding in on the drum track especially to mix it up here and there (grace notes and more use of varied cymbals can make a pretty good groove into an amazing track), put some movement on the early synth pad, dress up some of your other repeated patterns, and clean up the ending a bit, and you're in a better place. a bit of work on the drum EQs and you'll be even better.

you have some excellent stuff here - the bawu and initial guitar programming are delightful. this definitely will get a yes from me with just a bit more dress-up. to be honest this is really close for me and i wouldn't be sad to see it get posted. there's just so much that can be gained from a few simple updates.

 

 

NO

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by prophetik music

[MindWanderer]

I have to agree with the above.  This is an absolutely killer arrangement that I love to pieces.  The brilliantly synthesized guitar, the fascinating synths, the multi-ethnic overtones, the sheer variety of ideas that all mesh together would make this an easy download if it weren't for the production issues.  In particular, everything from where the guitar joins is muffled absolutely to death: too quiet, too mushy, too little depth of soundscape and range of frequencies.  You're like 95% of the way to an absolutely amazing track, and I really, really hope you get it over the finish line.

NO (please resubmit!)

[Rexy]

For a source that meanders so much, you managed to adapt it well into this alt-rock aesthetic.  You opened up with the flute section from the third minute in, adapting it onto the bawu.  And then, at 0:39, you went straight into the guitar wall for the rest of the track, going straight through the source while omitting any pauses and changing the chord structure when appropriate - a technique I liked here, considering the BGM relied on a constant drone.

Yet, I noticed a lot of auto-pilot going around your writing.  First, I saw the main lick (0:39, 1:42, 2:36) sounding identical in all three instances.  And then I also noticed that you'd used the same 4-measure drum loop, with the same articulations, copy-pasted almost entirely through the mix.  The only times you allowed yourself to break away was to add an extra crash into the main lick or add a fill at 2:33 as a transition.  I understand that you're a bedroom producer, but it helps to think from the perspective of someone who would perform drums in real-time.  Rather than let the left hand stick with slightly opened hi-hats, experiment with different open and closed tones in addition to other rhythmic cymbals like rides and splashes.  Similarly, the right hand and foot wouldn't stick with the same constant patterns either, so it's worth seeing how you can vary their writing depending on the situation - something that can carry over to your bass rhythms and guitar accents as well.

There is some brilliance with the production side here.  I, too, love what you did with the guitar and bawu sequencing.  The articulations and overall tone fooled me into thinking they sounded genuine, which shows that you know what you're doing with virtual instruments!  The mixdown doesn't feel as dry as Brad is making it out to be, but I agree that it sounds muddy.  You've got your snare, choir pads, bawu, and choice of synth at 2:07, all sharing the same frequency - and it becomes more problematic when you hear at least two of them together.  I know a few ways to remedy this.  One way is by making EQ cuts to prioritize one instrument over another.  Another riskier idea is adding an extra unique pad layer and panning both of them wide, letting your leads stay center without losing definition.  And there's something just for the bawu and any other higher-pitched instruments, but it can be worth EQ cutting the reverb itself and letting any wet mix occur on the higher frequencies.  Take your time and experiment.

It's one track that I enjoyed hearing in the inbox but felt it got its issues regarding autopilot and its muddy presentation.  It'll be nice to listen to another version in the future that cuts back on the amount of copy-paste and goes through another mixdown pass.  Whatever you decide to do, you've got heaps of potential, and I hope you're able to keep aiming for the front page.

NO (resubmit)

Edited October 16, 2021 by Rexy

[Gario]

Mmm, I'm diggin' the soundscape on this one - it's very fleshed out and has a lot of creative timbral choices that keep the arrangement distinct enough from the source. It utilizes song form very nicely, using that guitar riff as a grounding point for the listener to return to as the sections in between are pretty well varied, which gives the listener some nice grounding so they don't get lost.

To be honest, I think y'all are being overly critical on this one. There are elements that are not varied when they return (such as the guitar lead), but these repetitions are pretty short and are followed by well varied material. The production is quite good overall, and the use of space is pretty varied throughout (which breaks up the potential of this getting too stale). The song just isn't long enough for the relatively static elements to grate against the listener's ears; at three minutes there's really little opportunity to have the repetitive elements stick out in a negative way (unless the song is actually 1:30 on repeat, or something).

The track is reverb heavy, but I had no issue hearing all of the individual elements so at the end of the day I can't say the track is muddy to a fault, either.

This sounds like a pretty uncontroversial YES, to me, but if it does get sent back add some variety to the lead guitar & drums, and bring the reverb down so the mix doesn't sound as much like a wash of sound.

YES

[Liontamer]

Really thin synths to open this up; it felt like there was a quality disparity to them compared to the rest of the track; you probably could have cut out the first 14 seconds based off of the intro synths sounding so anemic.

I liked the tone of the rock guitars added in at :39, though they had too distant of a sound. The drumwork also felt static, which is odd because I was hearing fills here and there; other judges noted overall repetition there, but the patterns themselves had good energy, so I wasn't as put off by them.

Something's off with the textures despite a lot of solid instrumentation. I think the mixing was making my ear focus more on the drumming than the lead instruments at times, including the bawu, and especially the violin at 1:17. Rexy had a lot of great EQ suggestions to help carve out more space for some parts, because they do compete with each other.

Very nice dropoff at 1:55 followed by an e-violin-sounding line at 2:08; man, this has such a nice range of sounds to it. It's really disappointing that the mixing's more muddy than it should be, but on the plus side it does give the soundscape more depth; I'd rather have it like this than too dry.

This definitely could/should have improved mixing, but I can make out the parts well enough. The percussion and bass stuff, OK, it's repetitive, but it's energetic, and I'm hearing some variations/fills to not just seem completely droning, even though the mixing made me focus on it.

At the end of the day, I look at it like this: if Tremendouz said the source files were gone, then I would want this mix as is. The personalized arrangement approach, the dynamic contrast employed in the quiet build and middle dropoff, the varied instrumentation blending organic and synth, the flawed yet still reasonable production, I think Gario's right. With the sum total of this I'm definitely on board.

Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. Let's go!

YES

[Chimpazilla]

I really like this arrangement and the instrumentation choices are solid.  I agree with all the issues pointed out in the above votes, but the one thing that stands out to me the most is the lack of sparkle in the mix.  With a little more highs overall, and perhaps some ear candy here and there, this would really make an impact.  As it stands, it does sound just a tad muddy, or at least sonically disappointing, due to the lack of high-end sparkle.  The chug guitars sound very autopilot and too quiet throughout the mix, and the leads are on the weak side both in production and writing.  Although what I just wrote sounds all negative, I still think it's a lovely piece and certainly worthy of being heard by OCR fans, let's put this on the front page.

YES

[DarkSim]

Ah, a David Wise source tune! You know, this site could be called David Wise ReMix and I wouldn’t even be mad. Props to you for tackling this source tune, which I’m actually unfamiliar with, and knocking it out of the park!
The soft synth pad to begin with has an almost drone-like quality which clicks into place as soon as the gorgeous flute comes in at 0:13. Suddenly the drone evokes some celtic pipes with traditional accompaniment, yet there’s a hint of Egyptian/Arabian style from the source and feel of the ReMIx. Certainly a compelling, goosebump-inducing intro.
Suddenly, guitar! Drums! Bass! Wow, taking this into heavier territory surprised me in the best way. The riff on guitar sounds immense, and I love the pinched harmonic touch at 0:42 that adds real flair to it. I also love how the plucked harp accentuates the final part of the melody. It’s a shame that the guitar riff has been re-used a couple of times later in the ReMix, as the pinched harmonic detail stands out as a point of repetition, which could be something you look to improve in future.
The violin section at 1:16 is another tasteful addition, fitting in with the folk theme, and there’s some lovely interplay with the flute, above a rising guitar and bass chord sequence. The break at 1:55-2:07 introduces a heavier, almost industrial style synth, which leads further into an Arabian-feeling brass synth. Again, super interesting instrumentation and sound design, with each instrument flowing logically and cohesively to the next. The percussion is very natural-feeling, and care has obviously been taken to vary the fills and humanise the performance. The overall effect is one of an exceedingly rich atmosphere of exploration, and the mixing is handled so expertly that the experience is completely seamless and immersive.
The arrangement of the source tune is good, I like the way certain elements have been switched around to form a more flowing progression, rather than designed to be looped as the original was. I might have liked a little more individuality such as a solo, either with flute or guitar, however the source has been beefed up so much that there’s more than enough originality here.
Overall this is an extremely accomplished ReMix. To perfectly blend synth pads, 4 different lead instruments, heavy bass and drums, heavier synth elements, AND do it all with samples is no mean feat. The attention to detail is what impresses me most about this track - not a single element has been neglected, or is there without thought. Everything has a purpose, and execution is outstanding.

YES

[jordi]

Oh harp and bawu, two of my favourite instrument! I don’t think I’ve paired these two together often enough at all, so thank you for the inspiration. I’m certainly not the world’s best bawu player by any means, but I was very impressed with the realism of the performances. Whilst I can hear that you’ve used a bawu sample library, I don’t think that many people would because the ornamentation is confidently chosen and realistically playable, which is not an easy thing to do. I’d go out on a limb and say that you’ve probably listened to a bit of traditional Chinese music or soundtracks, but even if not, colour me impressed.

The atmosphere you create with this is really great. For some added magic, one could always add an extra pad/soundscape/element that is a little less flat, (a few examples off the top of my head: some chimes, reverse ethereal choir, or some light arps). This would especially benefit the intro where that pad comes in immediately and stays quite static and (very almost) exactly the same until the note finally changes at 0:23. This is a very small thing though and it’s more something to consider for the future to take it to that next level. I enjoy the rest of the elements of your arrangement too much for something that small to affect how much I like listening to this!

I really dig the energy the guitar brings to overall mood of the arrangement. Melodic electric guitar is always so satisfying to me, especially in the context of more folk/world instruments meandering around it. The more I listened to it though, I did find it off-putting that the sequenced guitar parts were the same throughout. The articulations you chose gave it some character, but also made the copy and pasting of those parts stand out even more. This is also true for the drums, that could have benefitted from a lot more variation. The drums are lacking in energy and sound robotic and tired, but this isn’t a dealbreaker for me in and of itself. On another note, the addition of the cello at 1:17 was gorgeous and very welcome.

This was a difficult piece on which to fall on a final decision. After giving it a lot of thought, seeing as it took me multiple listens for the lack of variation I pointed out, I still very much loved hearing this track, which ended up being my overarching takeaway. I’m very looking forward to following what other magical creations you send out into the world in the future!

YES

[XPRTNovice]

This is really tightly produced, and I honestly can’t give any feedback on the mechanical side
of things. You found a pocket and hit it dead on; there’s a great little mix of new age and 80’s
synthwavy stuff going on here.

If I were to offer some feedback, I would maybe say that the weird synthy panflute melody or whatever could probably stand to be more in front starting at :55 or whatever, and that continues to the cello (somewhat, the cello has dynamic variation and could benefit from some automation to just kind of make sure it's up front). I am just such a fan of the lead guitar playing, and it's a LIIIITTTLEEE too warm in the mix? But man I just attributed that to the style, it sounds like it's from the 80s. A touch more drum variation might help the piece, but overall I think it's solid. 

The arrangement is beautifully written, incorporates the source in a creative and interesting
manner, and creates some really fun soundscapes with the varying use of virtual instruments.
The guitar “performance” is really well done with little flourishes that keep my ear interested
in what’s going on. Great job!

 

YES

[Sir_NutS]

To be honest at first I was about to drop a Borderline NO on this one, I felt the same way as Emu on this one, arrangement is awesome, great feeling throughout the track but the production aspect of it has issues.  The mix overall is pretty muffled and lacks brilliance and clarity, things are a bit too messy in the low end too and overall, kinda boomy.  There's a distinct lack of high frequency air here that makes the mix feel a tad claustrophobic, and some of the lead synths are not very interesting-sounding.  But honestly, even if it sounds like a lot, after a couple listens I think these don't warrant a rejection when put against the rest of the mix.  Very good guitar performance with some interesting intonations.  It's not a track that overstays its welcome either, it has a solid structure and some very catchy phrases that stuck with me after I was done, transforming the original into a new song that sounds like its own thing.  The mix isn't perfect but I didn't feel instruments were out of balance in regards to each other but more like a mastering issue.  The arrangement is inventive and I wouldn't know this is a remix if I wasn't evaluating it.

Let's go with a YES. Fun and catchy stuff.

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Sir_NutS