Reason or FL?

[Zephyr]

Hey there, I've been interested in the re-mixing scene for about a year now, and more and more I've been wanting to get involved. I want to get a program and get started, but I'm reasonably short on cash and don't want to use more than necessary, I'm willing to invest in a midi keyboard and a mixing program.

I'd like to know your opinion on whether to get Reason or FL Studio, I've looked through the boards and have realized a bit of a split vote between the two, although some people have said that reason is easier to learn. Please keep in mind that I'm a complete newbie to this other than that I can use a computer and have my Grade 6 piano. So, what should it be for me? If you can please tell me the reason for your opinion, I kinda want to know why you think whatever is better, thanks. See you around hopefully, ~ZT~

[avaris]

The best thing you can do is download the demos for both and try them out or awhile. Use the demos for about 2-3 weeks. Go to youtube and watch videos of people using the programs. Go with whatever program you have more fun with. See how creative you can be in either. Creative response is another big indicator for which program might be best for you.

If you are a student then be sure to get the programs on academic discount. On academic discount Reason is $199. FL Studio XXL is $166. FL Producer is $79. If you get producer you def want to buy the fruity soundfont player for $30.

Project5 is another good program alot of people do not know about. It is $139 on academic discount. Cakewalk makes it, they have a demo for download on their site.

I use FL, Reason, and Ableton Live. Honestly if I was starting out I'd go with Reason. I find it alot of fun to use. I really like to tweak sounds and be creative. In Reason you can play around with the cables in back of the instruments. Once you understand the basic of patching the cables and how they affect the sound you have endless possibilities at your fingertips to create some awesome sounds. Also Reason is insanenly CPU friendly compared to other programs. So if you got an older machine it may be something to keep in mind.

FL has hands down the best piano roll.(where you input midi data)

I do all of my composition in FL. It's the program I started out with and has lots of good features. I'm really into using effects and creating crazy sounds so Reason and Live are more adept in that department.

Those are my experiences. Honestly try out the demos and see what you like best. Watch videos. Def check out Project5 too.

[richter]

It's important to note that FL is a VST host and Reason is not. There are tons of free VSTs out there, so it would be easy to get new sounds.

Either way, my vote is Reason. For more advanced DAWs I'd choose something more comprehensive and intuitive like Logic or Cubase.

[Fishy]

It's important to note that FL is a VST host and Reason is not. There are tons of free VSTs out there, so it would be easy to get new sounds.

Either way, my vote is Reason. For more advanced DAWs I'd choose something more comprehensive and intuitive like Logic or Cubase.

Then again Reason itself was sort of designed to be used as a synth in other programs...

My vote for a starter goes for Reason, its got a great beginners learning curve, and comes with some good samples, and you can use it as a soundfont player. There are loads of free user-made refills out there aswell.

FL is more flexible once you learn to use it, but when you have both thats even better.

[Brain Cleaner]

Reason, easily. Especially for starters, Reason will really help you learn the basics of music production, which you can apply to any other piece of software at that point.

Also, if you learn on Fruity Loops, it's harder to switch to better software later on, than it would be if you learned Reason.

[lazygecko]

I used FL for 4 years prior to learning Logic and didn't find it particularly hard. People are exaggerating about the interface differences.

[SnappleMan]

This "starter" bullshit is pissing me off. If you start with a loop based program like Reason or FL you'll be learning a very limited way of making music. Even if FL has some DAW-like features it doesn't come close to real DAW when it comes to quality and efficiency. If you actually evolve musically using FL you'll quickly discover that it has crippled you and switching over to something good will be even more difficult than starting out with it in the first place.

Your best bet is to go for something like Cubase SE, it's affordable and gives you a REAL starting point. That way you can learn to create music in a more natural pace and work-flow. DAWs like Cubase, Sonar or Logic may be more difficult to learn than FL, but it pays off as soon as you start creating music with them.

It may be tempting to download Reason or FL and make music quickly, but the music will most likely suck, and you'll become yet another *NO* in the sea of crappy remixers that is most of OCR.

Yeah, I'm an asshole, but I speak the truth.

[avaris]

BTW Cubase SE is only $74 on an academic discount if OP is interested in it.

[richter]

I speak the truth.

SnappleMan is wise.

[Brain Cleaner]

This "starter" bullshit is pissing me off. If you start with a loop based program like Reason or FL you'll be learning a very limited way of making music. Even if FL has some DAW-like features it doesn't come close to real DAW when it comes to quality and efficiency. If you actually evolve musically using FL you'll quickly discover that it has crippled you and switching over to something good will be even more difficult than starting out with it in the first place.

Your best bet is to go for something like Cubase SE, it's affordable and gives you a REAL starting point. That way you can learn to create music in a more natural pace and work-flow. DAWs like Cubase, Sonar or Logic may be more difficult to learn than FL, but it pays off as soon as you start creating music with them.

It may be tempting to download Reason or FL and make music quickly, but the music will most likely suck, and you'll become yet another *NO* in the sea of crappy remixers that is most of OCR.

Yeah, I'm an asshole, but I speak the truth.

WHAT? Reason is NOT "loop-based", unless all you're counting is REX and the ReDrum. Where did you come up with that? Reason is the most underutilized software out there, just because it actually takes a little talent to make something sound good, as opposed to dropping in a generator and loading up a preset like 98% of kids are doing nowadays.

[Zephyr]

At this point I no longer have any idea what to get, although reason is looking good.

[lazygecko]

Don't let others decide for you. Try them all out, then just go with whatever you feel more comfortable with.

[zircon]

Reason is the most underutilized software out there, just because it actually takes a little talent to make something sound good, as opposed to dropping in a generator and loading up a preset like 98% of kids are doing nowadays.

Actually, Reason is probably one of the most popular programs out there...

[Brain Cleaner]

Actually, Reason is probably one of the most popular programs out there...

Underutilized, not underused. A lot of people use Reason, but I've only seen a few (like SGX) that REALLY knew how hack it and make some incredible sounds.

[Compyfox]

Actually Haroon Piracha used Reason for a while too before he completely switched to Cubase and ProTools (both Mac). He still uses it for productions. I also remember Ravi Sharma (SirRus) using Reason, so does Shael Riley. And SGX uses both Sonar and Reason in Rewire mode now.

Nobody is saying that it's really bad per se. But it's a fact that Reason is more and more aimed at "click and play" producers, as it's showing with all kinds of Refill packs out there, patches for Substractor and the like. This happens for all kinds of tools out there. Stylus RMX is the best example, then again it can be either a boring loop player to help you get a job done quickly if you don't know how to program material, or you abuse it for more creative work and layer it with what you have. It all depends on the point of view, and what you'll make out of it.

Reason is a closed system. It can only be enhanced if Propellerhead decides to release more synths, or if there're more Refills for NNXT/DrREX and the synths. It sure has some advantages to be limited by something, which can push your creativity due to the limitation. But sometimes you'll ask for more. And one major letdown in Reason is the ability to record Vocals or live instruments like a Guitar.

I won't say much about FLStudio or the pro's/con's whether or not to get it or switch to a more "professional" sequencer. The basics can be learned in FL, and if you know your sequencer you can do everything with it. It's just that FLStudio has stuff build in that other sequencers lack. Cubase SE for example (since Cubase 4 is out, it's only Cubase 4 Studio for the time being) doesn't have that much effects or synths, while FL has a synth built in, a very dead simple to use "drum-module-system" (just drag and drop the sample, then lay down the beats as if you'd use a hardware beat programmer, but with a bit better overview). Then again, it can also have some letdowns in terms of mixing, live recording and general clarity in terms of the overview (unless you know how to handle that!). Logic is bound to Macintosh, but it offers a lot of possibilities right from the start (plugins/sampler/synths), same with ProTools and Cubase - only that they're cross platform. And those three (Cubase/Logic/Protools) are studio standards nowadays, though Samplitude and Sonar are on their way, too.

It's hard to decide where to go. But as starter, I'd check out FLStudio if you want to use own synths and learn the basics of studio tools. If you want to force your creation and learn patching, go for Reason. If you wanna check out creative routing with the possibility to go wild, try out EnergyXT (also known as eXT, it's dirt cheap and has features of the old BuzzMachine Tracker). If you mainly want to do live recordings and mixing, maybe go for Reaper (unlimited working shareware) or Argur (though Linux only if I can remember), maybe even Garageband (very basic), the smallest versions of Sonar and Samplitude, or even the new and upcoming Steinberg Sequel (though you can only use what's offered in there, aka it's also a closed system).

The possibilities are there, just try out some stuff to find out what suits you best. We really can't tell you what to go for, it depends on you. We can only say what we'd prefer and use for years now.

[Fishy]

Reason is a closed system. It can only be enhanced if Propellerhead decides to release more synths, or if there're more Refills for NNXT/DrREX and the synths. It sure has some advantages to be limited by something, which can push your creativity due to the limitation. But sometimes you'll ask for more. And one major letdown in Reason is the ability to record Vocals or live instruments like a Guitar.

I use Reason and make guitar based tracks with it all the time. Like you said, being limited makes you get creative. I load up guitar wavs in the redrum and use it as a mixer/trigger. Quite a nice trick.

Anyone can download audacity if they need a bit of reording.

[analoq]

you can't seriously recommend Reason + Audacity for recording;

doing multiple takes, overdubbing, cycle-recording.. these things can't be easy having to go back and forth between Reason and Audacity.

there's a difference between between limiting creative overhead and using the wrong tool for the job.

i think the best advice was already given in the first reply: download the demos and figure it out for yourself. also: welcome back, compyfox.

cheers.

[Compyfox]

It'd work though if you'd use Cool Edit Pro/Adobe Audition, as this is aimed at multitrack recording. This combination does Shael Riley use for most of his work for example, so did Reuben Kee with "To Far Away Times/The Place we know" for the Chrono Symphonic Remix Project.

[Zephyr]

So both demo's last forever right, they just have limitations, am I correct?

[wlfpck]

both are free to use forever.

They do have limitations though for the demos.

I just picked up FL studio 6 and i'm starting to get the hang of creating the song itself.

As for making the actual song...I wish there were sheet music or something.

[spellmynamewithabang]

You'll figure it out.

I have little to no formal music training and am more of a visual thinker, so using the piano roll is far easier for me. I don't go by note names, I go by the sounds they make.

[Mia]

What can you do in Reason that can't be done in FL? Or let me rephrase: What final audio result can you create with Reason that you can't do with FL?

[DDRKirby(ISQ)]

It's harder to compare final results than to compare workflow style and capability, since that's where the main difference lies. People can and have made good stuff with FL, and people can and have made good stuff with Reason. However, each goes about things in drastically different ways.

In terms of things you can or can't do with each program, there's a bunch--here's a few:

-No audio recording in Reason (only FL)

-Reason has no VST support whereas FL does

-FL can't do "true compressor sidechaining" but it can get a comparable result through a different method

-Reason can't automate tempo changes, IIRC

and a bunch of other stuff. But really, the final result is always possible...

[sgx]

Actually Haroon Piracha used Reason for a while too before he completely switched to Cubase and ProTools (both Mac). He still uses it for productions. I also remember Ravi Sharma (SirRus) using Reason, so does Shael Riley. And SGX uses both Sonar and Reason in Rewire mode now.

I haven't used SONAR for like three years. I used an ACID/Project5/Reason combo for a while, and now I'm super solid with my Ableton Live/Reason combo.

Reason is rad - great way to learn and will likely stick around with you for a while, but man, the Propellerheads really take their sweet time developing it. 3.0 is beginning to be kind of outdated in synth sounds and sequencing functions compared to other software that is updated more often.

Project5 2.5 is the shit - for the price. It comes with some great sounds, runs vst and dx (natively now), has a great interface and all that. I think P5 is really really great starting out software since it is easy to learn, expandable with vst, and really cheap. For me though, it is missing some 'advanced' features I need, so I replaced it with Ableton Live (which is NOT good beginner software IMO).

[Mia]

-Reason can't automate tempo changes, IIRC

Well, then screw Reason.

Only thing I don't like about FL I can think of off the top of my head is the inability to change time signature mid-song. Though, I doubt Reason is any different in that regard.