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Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

Kiyosuki

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Kiyosuki Newbie

Kiyosuki

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Its a pretty big game so I figured maybe it was worth its own thread.

Especially now that actual gameplay has finally been revealed.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/22703.html

And official stuff on website.

http://www.konami.jp/kojima_pro/event2007/index-en.html

I don't know about you guys, but I think gameplay wise its looking surprisingly good. Like they didn't just stack on some things onto MGS3 and made it look prettier, there's all sorts of gameplay additions that make it look much more intense and natural almost. The big thing for me so far is how much more you can do in the crouching and crawling modes, and they also finally improved corner shooting but I think just how much in way of options you seem to have is pretty exciting. What do you guys think so far?

Also.

1185273299543fw2.jpg

1185271811395fq0.jpg

Old EVA is old. (Although thats uh heh, pretty damn impressive for her age.)

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Strike911 Newbie

Strike911

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I AM SO F-ING EXCITED. I'm glad I bought a PS3 a week or so ago. ^_^_^_^_^_^__^_^_^_^_^

and on a side note, Old Eva looks like Cruella Deville.... I'm just sayin'... and little bit like Liquid Snake. hehe.

The new gameplay elements are real cool... graphically the game isn't really impressing me the way the other Metal Gear Solid games did though (EXCEPT for the characters themselves). Environments look a little bland and dated, imo, as opposed to some of the other games we've been seeing lately. I realize this isn't a final version. OctoCamo looks incredibly awesome!! I'm loving the crawling and CQC moves, and how you can do more stuff like body check and all that. Real sweet. Not to mention helping out in battles. That is just ridiculously awesome. I hope they have a mode where you can just roam around and battle it out, because that looks like a lot of fun in and of itself, just as much as sneaking around!!

Those wicked air bomber robo-bird things were hella tight too.

Good times. ^_^ Can't wait for this game. ^_^

When is this game coming out? Last place I looked said March 2008, I think it was IGN, but it also said Europe would be Q3 2007. *shrugs* Weird. Anyway, anyone know the relative release date? I'd assume it would need to be around the holidays because PS3 needs some kind of killer app before 2008... seriously...

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Oddllama Newbie

Oddllama

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Apparently no one's excited besides you and me. Might be the reason I pick up a PS3 this year. Either that or the FFVII remake. That is official now, right?

More like another reason to get a 360.

Well, I guess my initial instinct that most of the old-future-scenes would be 30% the game, and the rest would be flashback is basically crushed.

They'd better actually answer some questions in this game.

MGS3 hardly did anything.

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Strike911 Newbie

Strike911

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When I saw that picture, I immediately set out to make this post, only to scroll down and see that I'd been beaten to it.

david_bowie_labyrinth.jpg1185273299543fw2.jpg

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

*sigh*

hahahaha....

man... it makes me sad that Old Eva looks like David Bowie. -_-

hmm, well, since a minor theme in the Metal Gear series is the whole concept of lineages and passing on genes , I wonder if Eva has children and if they'll have any impact on the story.

So she's approximately in her 70's.... Ocelot is in his 60's (judging from the age differences [and direct references] in MGS3)... and Solid Snake looks like hell... maybe his 60s too but he's too pumped up... he just looks kind of freakish... I suppose if you were deteriorating genetically you'd be kind of freakish too, I guess. Hmm.

I wonder if any other characters that were around from back in Snake Eater will make small cameo appearances... or just references... I mean, the whole cast is getting pretty old, which you don't usually see in games or movies even. It's kind of refreshing....

...

...

...

... minus the whole David Bowie look alike thing. Hehe. ^_^

Hmm. I wonder if Eva knows about Solid Snake... I'm sure we'll get some kind of obligatory "HE LOOKS JUST LIKE BIGBOSS" flashback sequence when she first see's Solid snake...

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Valhalla Knight Newbie

Valhalla Knight

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More like another reason to get a 360.

Well, I guess my initial instinct that most of the old-future-scenes would be 30% the game, and the rest would be flashback is basically crushed.

They'd better actually answer some questions in this game.

MGS3 hardly did anything.

Oh, is it officially coming to the 360 now? I've been out of the loop lately. Either way, it'll be out on PS3 quite a bit earlier than the 360.

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Necrotic Newbie

Necrotic

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Oh, is it officially coming to the 360 now? I've been out of the loop lately. Either way, it'll be out on PS3 quite a bit earlier than the 360.

Nah he's just bein' a hater. Konami said during E3 that it wasn't impressed by the PS3 price drop and wants to see more consoles sold otherwise it'd consider moving exlusives to "reach critical mass", but that's basically it. Kojima's gone on record saying many times that he ideally wants MGS4 to stay on the PS3. Whether or not Konami could sway without a doubt their biggest asset to change his mind is definitely way, way up in the air. As much as I wouldn't mind MGS4 going onto the 360, anyone holding their breath better think twice. If there's any game, any SINGLE game that Sony has a bottomless pocketbook to keep on their side, it's this.

These rumours are so damn frustrating though. I'm at a point where I'm ready to buy either a 360 or a PS3, but once I buy one or the other I'm basically locked in. It's not like I can afford both. If MGS4 goes on the 360 then I'd of course rather have that because it's had a chance to prove itself for a couple years now. It's got the support, the titles, and a solid online system. It's just that the hardware isn't reliable. However a lot of people like to be blissfully ignorant about this fact, but as much as Sony has done stupid shit before they're not stupid enough to forget that losing MGS4 means losing producers, developers and exclusives. Because by losing a gargantuan chunk of their consumers Sony loses any leverage on the people who actually supply the software (frankly everyone I know would rather have a 360 over a PS3 at this point because it doesn't have any games like MGS yet). For guys like me, MGS4 is THE system seller. The one game that's all I give a fuck about for the PS3 coming anywhere in the near future. In the long-term, with the PS3's features, I'm going to be honest by saying that despite the 360's good charms over the past couple years the PS3 has more potential for being more than just a game system, and that's a charm (to me) all in itself.

As for the gameplay footage... dayamn. There's a reason MGS is easily one of my favourite series. Hell I'm sure any of us that've played it have it ranked somewhere way up high in our favourites, but it really does grow and improve with each new game. I like how they took some of the elements of great action games (or Splinter Cell for that matter) by adding the soulder aim and vastly improving the camera. Somehow made it not really lose its foundation in stealth though and with those kind of additions THAT's impressive. It's just ridiculous as to what kind of options you have to control Snake now. Plus nothing really seemed to just be given the ol spit shine from MGS3. Everything was either greatly improved, changed, or removed. The only exception is the first person "mode" that was added... I'm nervous to see whether that could give MGS a bit of an identity crisis.

The FPS mode is still REALLY neat to see in action. Anyone remember some of the first MGS4 trailers where it perceived MGS as an FPS? The first thing I thought was, 'Wow, MGS could be really fun if that was pulled off right.'

My favourite addition is definitely the new CQC stuff. I hope what we saw in the demo is just a taste of what new CQC stuff we see later on. :) Holding up is easier too, which is kinda cool, and the idea to do body checks seems so obvious that I'm glad it's now an option.

-Nick

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Kiyosuki Newbie

Kiyosuki

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I've heard nothing about it coming to the 360, its not for all intents and purposes. But supposedly the guys at Konami have thought about the -idea- of whether its possible or not, more exactly. Heard nothing about an FFVII remake either, although we all know it'll happen one day inevitably. I don't think so quite yet though. Yeah the PS3's looking pretty banged up right now, I'm just a huge MGS fan though. And this looks like a pretty big game, major people from all of them are appearing in it. I know how games work now and everything, but if this really is Solid Snake's final story (not the end of Metal Gear mind you.) like said I can't wait to see what happens. In the very least, even if it does continue after this the game itself looks like it'll be pretty good.

What I like the most so far gameplay wise is the real sense of immersion in the battlefield. I love MGS but while 3 was great, I have to admit the gameplay style of it was becoming a little "mechanical", and I'm not saying its going to be a full out evolution of the series. But it looks like its building on the more immersive stealth action that MGS3 started to move the series down.

With all the stuff Snake can do it looks a lot more dynamic in even how he moves but still having some of that classic Metal Gear style to it. I also love the idea of giving the player options on what to do in the actual battlefield, like maybe Snake could have helped the PMCs here instead of the militia, or just done nothing alltogether. Its up to the player. It goes pretty well with Snake's personal "symbol" in this game, that little Kanji symbol that means "let the world be". He's just an observer in a world that he's no longer fully a part of. Just around to take care of some unfinished business. That sorta thing.

The crotch grab is pretty out there though. But you know Kojima's weird sense of humor. I've personally warmed up to the idea too of playing as "old" Snake (even though he's not really literally old), I think its a gutsy move.

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Strike911 Newbie

Strike911

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solid snake is a clone, and therefore ages much faster. he's probably in his 40s (i don't know if someone has an exact timeline).

Snake's age is never really clearly stated, if I'm not mistaken. But I'll take some guesses here... Early info from Metal Gear solid indicated that he was in his thirties during the events of Shadow Moses. MGS3 said that the Les Enfants Terribles project occurred in 1972. The events at Shadow Moses occurred in 2005. Naomi states directly in the english E3 trailer that it's been 9 years ago since Shadow Moses. So the year is 2014. So 2014 - 1972 is.... approximately 42, assuming that Solid and Liquid were both born in the year of the Les Enfants Terribles project's start date according to MGS3. So yeah, accounting for his month of birth he's either 41 or 42 during the events of MGS4. Err... meh, early 40s.

I should calculate everyone's ages because I'm particularly bored right now.... haha, anyway.

Oh, is it officially coming to the 360 now? I've been out of the loop lately. Either way, it'll be out on PS3 quite a bit earlier than the 360.

Kojima said at E3 that it was an exclusive title for PS3, but speculation remains still, especially with all these timed exclusives on PS3 as of late. My money is on MGS4 coming out on PS3 as planned, and it'll probably be ported to Xbox360 in a year or so. That's only my guess though and is based on nothing factual or official.

But... again, the only official words that have been uttered are that Metal Gear Solid 4 will be exclusive to the PlayStation3. Again, MGS2 was supposed to be exclusive but after a couple months (a lot of them actually) it came on on Xbox after the PS2, so ... meh, it'll happen eventually. For MGS fanboys with Xbox360's it'll be a really long wait though...

Seriously though, I just wanna know how the freakin' hell Liquid is controlling Ocelot with his damned hand. That needs some 'splaining.

I'm excited though. ^_^

EDIT: I have to say this, one thing about Metal Gear Solid has always bugged me. In MGS3, during 1964, BigBoss looks like he's in his mid-30s. in 1970, is Portable Ops. In 72, 8 years later the Les Enfants Terrible project occurs, but that only adds 8 years to BigBoss's original age (whatever that was.) According to Liquid's account of the Les Enfants terribles project (and why the genetic aging issues are occuring) was because BigBoss was cloned while he was in his fifties, but this doesn't line up with the timeline at all... which either means Liquid is wrong, or their's a gap in the storyline, OR... BigBoss was not in his mid-30s (EVEN THOUGH he was a self proclaimed "Rookie") and just took really damn good care of himself and not only was a super badass soldier, but he also had really good skin and some kind of miracle cure for aging and wrinkles... but that's crazy too, because during the events of the first Metal Gear which is said to have occured in 1995, Big Boss would be in his seventies.... I think old MGS info said he died in his 70s.... but.... it means Snake was 40 something in Snake Eater .... but he keeps referring to himself as a rookie... maybe a rookie in the new infiltration unit he's in... OR.... maybe... Naked Snake just has really bad self-esteem, or has such a high bar to reach that he's always referring to himself as less than he actually is, especially considering the psychological, emotional issues he had in MGS3 when he had to fight his mentor to the death... and, well, losing Eva who he says in MPO that he still loved her. *shrugs* I'm looking WAY to into this, so I'm going to stop. Later.

/topic diverging

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I-n-j-i-n Newbie

I-n-j-i-n

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If MGS4 goes on the 360 then I'd of course rather have that because it's had a chance to prove itself for a couple years now. It's got the support, the titles, and a solid online system. It's just that the hardware isn't reliable.

Statistically, it IS reliable. The faultless system rate I hear is at least 95%. Of course, that 5% sticks out when we're talking about 12 million consoles on the market now, but it's still a minor issue now. Also that huge Forza issue is mostly a disc/software problem as well.

As for the gameplay footage... dayamn. There's a reason MGS is easily one of my favourite series. Hell I'm sure any of us that've played it have it ranked somewhere way up high in our favourites, but it really does grow and improve with each new game. I like how they took some of the elements of great action games (or Splinter Cell for that matter) by adding the soulder aim and vastly improving the camera. Somehow made it not really lose its foundation in stealth though and with those kind of additions THAT's impressive.

Yeah, but the freeroaming camera in Splinter Cell and other games that had the freer camera didn't exactly give you a God's eye view either. Especially considering how MGS4 seems more chaotic than ever with the terrain and different troops.

My favourite addition is definitely the new CQC stuff. I hope what we saw in the demo is just a taste of what new CQC stuff we see later on. :) Holding up is easier too, which is kinda cool, and the idea to do body checks seems so obvious that I'm glad it's now an option.

I like how they finally decided to put some on-screen helps and button indicators so that the CQC isn't a confusing mess while in battle. MGS as a series seemed to be backwards on that by a decade.

With all the stuff Snake can do it looks a lot more dynamic in even how he moves but still having some of that classic Metal Gear style to it. I also love the idea of giving the player options on what to do in the actual battlefield, like maybe Snake could have helped the PMCs here instead of the militia, or just done nothing alltogether. Its up to the player. It goes pretty well with Snake's personal "symbol" in this game, that little Kanji symbol that means "let the world be". He's just an observer in a world that he's no longer fully a part of. Just around to take care of some unfinished business. That sorta thing.

The crotch grab is pretty out there though. But you know Kojima's weird sense of humor. I've personally warmed up to the idea too of playing as "old" Snake (even though he's not really literally old), I think its a gutsy move.

Sam Fisher had grey hair in the first game and was decidedly a near-senile character too. And the 'choose the side' mechanic was worked on Chaos Theory. It's almost funny how these ideas coincide with these two franchises.

I really like the crazy story in MGS games, of course, but I think they're finally nearing the end with all the craziness they can bring it. Animal-like mechas, genome taking over the world, etc etc. It's about time they finished it. If they're going to make another stealth game, I wish it's a totally new franchise. They can't stretch the story much further.

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Kiyosuki Newbie

Kiyosuki

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I really like the crazy story in MGS games, of course, but I think they're finally nearing the end with all the craziness they can bring it. Animal-like mechas, genome taking over the world, etc etc. It's about time they finished it. If they're going to make another stealth game, I wish it's a totally new franchise. They can't stretch the story much further.

Yeah as much as I love MGS I really, really hope this story has a conclusion of some sort. Hell even if it leads to a completely new Metal Gear series in the same world with a different lead or something or something, just as long as Solid Snake and the Solid series gets some sort of closure that'd be the coolest thing ever. I don't want to get my hopes up though, knowing how sequel centric gaming is. But if anyone'd be willing to try that its Kojima at least, although I don't know how much control he has over such things.

An interesting thing I was thinking about was how the Stinger Missile Launcher and more modern PSG1 style Tranq rifle were replaced with an oldschool RPG and the Mosin Nagant from Big Boss' time in the 60's and 70's. Do you think maybe its a hint of something? Like, maybe since Solid Snake is aging rapidly to Big Boss' original age that he's starting to aquire a lot of his traits like CQC, his preference in older guns maybe, stuff like that?

Or maybe...that crazy crazy theory that MGS3 is Solid Snake reliving Big Boss' first big mission through Virtual Reality is true, and he grew to like that equipment.

I'm reading a lot into it but you know how crazy these games can get with that stuff.

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Strike911 Newbie

Strike911

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Like, maybe since Solid Snake is aging rapidly to Big Boss' original age that he's starting to aquire a lot of his traits like CQC, his preference in older guns maybe, stuff like that?

Or maybe...that crazy crazy theory that MGS3 is Solid Snake reliving Big Boss' first big mission through Virtual Reality is true, and he grew to like that equipment.

Those are some interesting points.

Now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised if some traits from Big Boss start coming out in Snake. That seems like something Kojima would write up and throw in to the game.

The whole VR thing could be a very real possibility, especially with the series emphasis on VR training and all.

... the last and final possibility (PREPARE THE SARCASM CANNON) in all the old games with Solid Snake, Snake just was too damn lazy to use CQC. They took him from his home in Alaska and he was, "Damn man, what the hell. I'll give you the silver package, but not the premium deal. No CQC. No touchie. Later." Yep. That's what happened.

*blinks*

Hm... well, i also thought it was interesting that the events in Metal Gear Solid 4 occur EXACTLY 50 years from the day of Big Boss's mission. Exactly 50, which I think will play into some facet of the story.

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Valhalla Knight Newbie

Valhalla Knight

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So people still think the FFVII remake is happening, huh?

Hey, there's nothing wrong with wishful thinking. Then again, I'm sure that if it did happen it just wouldn't capture the spirit of the original - it just hasn't been the same since the Square Enix merger. It would probably be worse than the movie. Ah, but this topic belongs in a different thread. ;)

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Introverticon Newbie

Introverticon

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This is extremely impressive. The new abilities Snake has been given are beyond awesome, epecially the range of motion he's been given when sneaking or lying on the ground. Though, rolling from side-to-side while lying flat seems like more of a way to avoid fire after being spotted, rather than to avoid being spotted in the first place. The 'stalking' stance from MGS3 was nice to see without it having any repercussions. Using the electrified knife seems cheap like the EZ gun, though. The return of CQC techniques is great, especially since they've been improved - who here hopes the game will track how many times you knocked out a man by grabbing his crotch? What has me the most excited is how the alignment system will change gameplay. Laying down cover fire for someone who can actually shoot worth a damn sounds awesome, even if it is slightly out of tone with the series.

And now, obligatory baseless speculation. Given how much more versatile Snake is, you just know the enemy troops will have new tricks as well. Consider, for instance, Kojima's love of next-gen warfare. Imagine that every troop can take heavy damage due to high-impact ballistic armor, communicate your location better than they ever could in past games, and call in immediate ground or air support. The PMCs were deploying UAVs on Snake's fellow militia, but would they use such weapons if Snake was on their side and in danger? Will Snakes' actions, regardless of whether he's with mujahideen or mercanaries, really affect the corse of the war? Aquiring weapons will probably also be affected by which force you aid. I'm guessing, though, that it won't have much of an effect on the story, since Snake is going to have infiltrate Outer Heaven either way. Additonal camoflauge patterns are probably going to be downloaded from the Metal Gear mkII. Sure, Snake can automatically adopt any scheme simply by pressing against a wall, but that would make things too easy.

It's kind of a shame that this demo looks like it's on Very Easy mode, though, even if my experience with MGS3 taught me it's the best for experimenting and general jackassery. I was eager to see how the troops would react after coming to, which can take forever in that mode, and there's no challenge in sneaking past them either.

An interesting thing I was thinking about was how the Stinger Missile Launcher and more modern PSG1 style Tranq rifle were replaced with an oldschool RPG and the Mosin Nagant from Big Boss' time in the 60's and 70's. Do you think maybe its a hint of something? Like, maybe since Solid Snake is aging rapidly to Big Boss' original age that he's starting to aquire a lot of his traits like CQC, his preference in older guns maybe, stuff like that?

I'm convinced the game is going to be packed with subtle references to Big Boss' time, (and not so subtle ones once the player meets EVA) but a more likely explanation is that since the game takes place in the Middle East, Snake is using Soviet leftovers. He's also using an AK assault rifle, though it's the fairly recent 101 model and not one of those rusty AKMs extremists are always pictured with.

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