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OCR ID3 tagging improvements - DONE!


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#21 chumble spuzz

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 01:52 AM

Fixing the NamesWithoutSpaces and FFVI/FF6 issues too might be a good idea. Use roman numerals.


Actually, I think using a more computer-friendly convention might be better in this case. It might look weird to see "FF01" but at least it'll sort properly, i.e.10 coming after 9, instead of before 1. (Or alternately, IX coming after V, VI, etc., instead of before.)
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#22 anosou

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 02:00 AM

Actually, I think using a more computer-friendly convention might be better in this case. It might look weird to see "FF01" but at least it'll sort properly, i.e.10 coming after 9, instead of before 1. (Or alternately, IX coming after V, VI, etc., instead of before.)


The mission of OCR has always been to raise awareness of game music and tribute the original game and music. Using the games original title accomplishes that. We also don't want a fanboy-riot :tomatoface:

I see no reason of altering the games original title. If it uses roman numerals it should and vice versa.


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#23 Liontamer

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 02:08 AM

You could recruit! http://www.ocremix.o...ead.php?t=19642. No difference to me since I'm still Zen Xtra-ing (green and black screen), but if that tiles project doesn't fall through it sounds like you might have folks interested in associating the pics with the remixes.


That could be very cool, just not something that could be done quickly. Maybe around OCR02000 if they idea takes off.

Actually, I think using a more computer-friendly convention might be better in this case. It might look weird to see "FF01" but at least it'll sort properly, i.e.10 coming after 9, instead of before 1. (Or alternately, IX coming after V, VI, etc., instead of before.)


Nowadays, I've seen OSes & programs smart enough to understand that filenames with Final_Fantasy_9 come before Final_Fantasy_10, so I think it's OK, but I'll keep an eye on that. As far as the actual tags, don't worry Mattias, Roman numerals where appropriate.

#24 SirChadlyOC

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 04:09 AM

One more name tag to check is "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" vs "TMNT." That is a bitch to find the right remix on my Zen Micro while driving! :<
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#25 Liontamer

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 04:23 AM

One more name tag to check is "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" vs "TMNT." That is a bitch to find the right remix on my Zen Micro while driving! :<


Already got that stuff, but thanks. Just for the record, I don't need any help on file renaming or proper game names, just ID3 tag fields we're not using that we should be.

#26 José the Bronx Rican

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:05 AM

I've been meaning to ask - since my only experience is with a Creative Zen - just what systems these different players use to sort and playlist tracks. It's important for me to know before I move on with tagging my own stuff, which WILL happen no matter what, because every brand plays with the tags their own way. For example, album art size must be 200x200 before Zen recognizes it. Also, Zen doesn't sort by "year," although I'm sure others do. On that note, here's my suggestion: fix the songs with missing "year" tags. I'm not sure if the year given is necessarily the year the song was posted, but it makes sense to do that.

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#27 Native Jovian

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:04 AM

Nowadays, I've seen OSes & programs smart enough to understand that filenames with Final_Fantasy_9 come before Final_Fantasy_10, so I think it's OK, but I'll keep an eye on that. As far as the actual tags, don't worry Mattias, Roman numerals where appropriate.

As far as this issue, I'd suggest using digits in the filename but Roman numerals in the ID3 tag. A quick check shows that Windows XP is in fact smart enough to know that 1 < 2-9 < 10+, but the original Final Fantasy isn't tagged as "Final Fantasy 1" so it gets all messed up. It classes numbers as higher than letters alphabetically, so FF1 is AFTER all the other Final Fantasy games. Also, Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy Mystic Quest get all mixed in with the Final Fantasy 1 games because it sorts all those mixes in with the FF1 songs at "T" and "M" respectively. That leads to another question. While filenames are smart enough to order themselves like that, are MP3 players? Maybe we'd be better off sticking with digits the whole way through to make those sorts of sorting issues nonexistent in any medium.

Another random issue I noticed! There are two Chrono Trigger mixes (KnightsComeMarchingHome and Downwind) that get messed up in order because, unlike any other remix that I'm aware of, they're listed as coming from multiple games. Knights is listed as "Chrono Trigger & FF9", while Downwind is "Chrono Trigger & Xenogears". There are other mixes from multiple unrelated games and they've never done this, so it should probably be standardized to listing the filename only under the "main" game.

OCR mix ID could easily go under track number.... however, this would mean that playing album "http://www.ocremix.org" would automatically sort by mix ID rather than by title, so that's something we'd probably want to avoid unless there was another easy way to sort by game, and I'm not aware of one. Perhaps put it under Disc? My iPod doesn't sort by disc number (something that has annoyed me intensely, actually), just track number within a particular album... Not an ideal solution, but the only one I can think of at the moment.

Either Album Artist/Band or Publisher seems to be a logical place to list the game the mix comes from, but I don't think that there's an option to sort by those fields in most MP3 players, so it'd be a bit pointless as far as that goes. Methinks the best solution for that is to just keep things as-is and have the game be the first part of the title.

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#28 Moguta

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:55 AM

As far as this issue, I'd suggest using digits in the filename but Roman numerals in the ID3 tag. A quick check shows that Windows XP is in fact smart enough to know that 1 < 2-9 < 10+, but the original Final Fantasy isn't tagged as "Final Fantasy 1" so it gets all messed up. It classes numbers as higher than letters alphabetically, so FF1 is AFTER all the other Final Fantasy games. Also, Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy Mystic Quest get all mixed in with the Final Fantasy 1 games because it sorts all those mixes in with the FF1 songs at "T" and "M" respectively. That leads to another question. While filenames are smart enough to order themselves like that, are MP3 players? Maybe we'd be better off sticking with digits the whole way through to make those sorts of sorting issues nonexistent in any medium.

Yeah. While I don't feel too strongly about this really, roman numerals seem to be overly aesthetic. For example, you'll get FF IX coming before FF V. And many things sort by tags (media player's media libraries, iPods). And the original FF songs get thrown everywhere, between & around the numbered games depending on the title. I guess that last issue could be solved by seperating the game name from the track title by a ": " or " - ", but then I've noticed older tracks seem to treat the game name as part of the remix title. :-P Not sure there's any perfect solution here.

OCR mix ID could easily go under track number.... however, this would mean that playing album "http://www.ocremix.org" would automatically sort by mix ID rather than by title, so that's something we'd probably want to avoid unless there was another easy way to sort by game, and I'm not aware of one. Perhaps put it under Disc? My iPod doesn't sort by disc number (something that has annoyed me intensely, actually), just track number within a particular album... Not an ideal solution, but the only one I can think of at the moment.

Arg, are you serious? Can you not manually make the iPod sort by title name inside an album? If not, it seems it would be extremely cumbersome to find a specific OCR song on your iPod. Maybe there is no place in the ID3 tags for the mix ID after all. *facepalm*

Concerning album art, there was a recent topic that seems a pretty good candidate. That is, unless Dave has a graphical idea of his own.

Larry, as far as additional ID3 fields that OCR should use, I think we've got 'em all covered so far. That's why you're not seeing any more posts on that issue.

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#29 SoulinEther

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 05:15 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but right now, track number is used to identify which game of a series the remix is from? Like Castlevania 3 remixes would get a 3 in the track number? Or was that just my media player's fabrication and it's trying to trick me?

Isn't that kind of a waste? There should be something else being put there. And if not, what is being used there really?

Edit: my media player is a deceitful bastard. So... can't something be put there? I want to suggest remix #, but... I think that would be annoying for people whose media players / mp3 players automatically sort an album by track numbers - I personally find it handy that I can find songs from particular games easily because the songs are sorted in alphabetical order by title.. dunno.

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#30 Liontamer

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 05:28 AM

fix the songs with missing "year" tags


I dunno where the issue came from, but I believe it's all set. I already knew about it though, but thanks anyway for pointing it out.

As far as this issue, I'd suggest using digits in the filename but Roman numerals in the ID3 tag.


That's already the new standard, and I've carried that over to the older stuff.

the original Final Fantasy isn't tagged as "Final Fantasy 1" so it gets all messed up. It classes numbers as higher than letters alphabetically, so FF1 is AFTER all the other Final Fantasy games. Also, Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy Mystic Quest get all mixed in with the Final Fantasy 1 games because it sorts all those mixes in with the FF1 songs at "T" and "M" respectively.


Nah, it's fine. There'll never be a 100% accurate system re: filename/tag sorting. We're OK with what's in place now.

Knights is listed as "Chrono Trigger & FF9", while Downwind is "Chrono Trigger & Xenogears".

Way, way ahead of you.

OCR mix ID could easily go under track number.... however, this would mean that playing album "http://www.ocremix.org" would automatically sort by mix ID rather than by title, so that's something we'd probably want to avoid unless there was another easy way to sort by game, and I'm not aware of one. Perhaps put it under Disc? My iPod doesn't sort by disc number (something that has annoyed me intensely, actually), just track number within a particular album... Not an ideal solution, but the only one I can think of at the moment.


Isn't it just as simple as sorting by filename or track title? If not, we may need to reconsider the idea. Someone run a test.

Either Album Artist/Band or Publisher seems to be a logical place to list the game the mix comes from, but I don't think that there's an option to sort by those fields in most MP3 players, so it'd be a bit pointless as far as that goes. Methinks the best solution for that is to just keep things as-is and have the game be the first part of the title.


Yep. And there's definitely not even the tiniest bit of reconsideration about the filename or track title styles. Those styles help popularize the mixes the same way the URL as the album popularizes the site. We'd be stupid to change them; they're the way they are for a good reason.

Concerning album art, there was a recent topic that seems a pretty good candidate. That is, unless Dave has a graphical idea of his own.


Yeah, I figure it's Dave's call.

#31 Native Jovian

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 06:53 AM

Nah, it's fine. There'll never be a 100% accurate system re: filename/tag sorting. We're OK with what's in place now.

Well, all you need to do to fix all that is change everything to "Final Fantasy 1" instead of plain "Final Fantasy" and all that goes away. FF1 gets sent to the front of the list, and Tactics/Mystic Quest sent to their own sections. It's simple, it's easy, and it makes everything much neater. I think it's worth doing.

Isn't it just as simple as sorting by filename or track title? If not, we may need to reconsider the idea. Someone run a test.

I dunno about anyone else's iPod, but mine automatically sorts all albums by track numbers and only defaults to sorting alphabetically by title if there are no track numbers (or all track numbers are equal). So no, no way that I know of to sort album http://www.ocremix.org by title if there are track numbers there.

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#32 Liontamer

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 07:10 AM

Well, all you need to do to fix all that is change everything to "Final Fantasy 1" instead of plain "Final Fantasy" and all that goes away. FF1 gets sent to the front of the list, and Tactics/Mystic Quest sent to their own sections. It's simple, it's easy, and it makes everything much neater. I think it's worth doing.


The reason it's not for me is because if we did that for some games, in order to properly and uniformly do that, we'd have add 1s for all the games with sequels. It's a beyotch. If djp were down with that change, sure, but otherwise, I'd rather not.

#33 chanq

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 02:08 PM

I know I've already posted a thread about this, but yet again here's my suggestion for OCR album art:

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I use it for all my OC ReMixes and it works perfectly in both iTunes and on my iPod. 400x400 pixels.

#34 anosou

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 05:38 PM

The reason it's not for me is because if we did that for some games, in order to properly and uniformly do that, we'd have add 1s for all the games with sequels. It's a beyotch. If djp were down with that change, sure, but otherwise, I'd rather not.


Most of all I think it would be quite awkward to "rename" some games so they would fit better on someone's iPod. If it's an issue anyone can redo the tags slightly on their own.

The thing I'm stressing here is that we shouldn't alter the games original name (in this case American release-name since OCR is an american site). In cases like FFIII later released as FFVI one SHOULD go with FFVI since that is more accurate re: the games original japanese name.

Pretty much.

Isn't it just as simple as sorting by filename or track title? If not, we may need to reconsider the idea. Someone run a test.


Yes. The only issue is that most MP3 players and apps sort albums by track number and not title (the latter would be stupid really). But then again I PREFER ocremixes sorted by Remix ID instead of game. It brings more awareness to every remix regardless of game and if someone wants Zelda they can easily 1. sort by title, 2. search for zelda or 3. set up a playlist.

I vote strongly FOR Remix ID as Track Number.


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#35 SoulinEther

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 10:18 PM

I PREFER ocremixes sorted by Remix ID instead of game. It brings more awareness to every remix regardless of game and if someone wants Zelda they can easily 1. sort by title, 2. search for zelda or 3. set up a playlist.


Now that I think about it, I'm fairly certain I could set up a playlist with the tracks sorted alphabetically by title name - and it wouldn't be hard to do at all.

So... now I'm for this as well (remix id as track number)

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#36 anosou

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 10:32 PM

Now that I think about it, I'm fairly certain I could set up a playlist with the tracks sorted alphabetically by title name - and it wouldn't be hard to do at all.

So... now I'm for this as well (remix id as track number)


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#37 The Pezman

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 11:10 PM

Ooooooh...

The ID3v2 Chapter Addendum was published in December 2005 but is not widely supported as yet. It allows users to jump easily to specific locations or chapters within an audio file and can provide a synchronized slide show of images and titles during playback. Typical applications include Enhanced podcasts and it can be used in ID3v2.3 or ID3v2.4 tags.

Nothing to use as a standard, but this could allow for some interesting audiovisual collages people could put together and perhaps host here as well.

#38 Rozovian

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 01:19 AM

What about name changes? Just remembered that DJ Crono changed his remixer name to Jovette Rivera, dunno if there are any others. Should the old remixes have the artist tag changed to match the remixer's current remixer name?

Oh and the name tag of one of Destiny's sd3 remixes begins with a space.

#39 Liontamer

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 05:24 AM

What about name changes? Just remembered that DJ Crono changed his remixer name to Jovette Rivera, dunno if there are any others. Should the old remixes have the artist tag changed to match the remixer's current remixer name?

Oh and the name tag of one of Destiny's sd3 remixes begins with a space.


Appreciated, but I've already gone through all those issues. I don't need any help with current ReMixer names and the program I'm using caught other issues like spaces. But I do appreciate the lookout.

If I miss something like that, feel free to gloat.

#40 Olarin

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 03:58 PM

With respect to track numbers being the remix ID number:

I've already been doing this manually in iTunes for my own collection, but I ran into a problem - I could only input a maximum of three digits for the track number. Is this a limitation of ID3 tags or merely iTunes being stupid? I worked around this by making remixes below 1000 disc number 1, and remixes above 1000 disc number 2. That's still not a perfect solution though as it leaves the question of what to do with mix #1000 (can't have a track number of 0, as far as I know).

With respect to album artist:

Isn't the usual practice in a case like this to just make it "Various Artists" or simply "Various"? (That's what I've been using)




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