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Jack the Ripper

Zelda 3 Cavern Theme Remix - needs feedback

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Okay, so I've had this remix gathering rhetorical dust on my harddrive for the past few years, I don't even know if anyone remembers that I promised the community this mix. I'm offering you all the ability to download it without digging into my personal website, with the request for opinions and feedback.

Since I've had the mix for quite a while now and haven't had any ideas to improve it (or at least any that I've implemented), I want to see if you guys think it deserves OCR status. If not, please make a constructive suggestion if you're going to offer criticism.

Click here for the track.

It was supposed to be a pretty high-energy track, but it seems to have lost its glow for me.

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Well, I picked up your track about 5 minutes before I had to leave, and since it's a 4 minute track, I didn't get to really listen a lot, but my general thoughts are this:

- Because of the nature of the source tune, your remix is very incoherent.

- Once you get past the dreadfully long intro (1:04 is a bit long), there's a lot of stuff happening. Guitars, synths, bass, percussion. All in the same range, trying to grab my attention. Work on some EQ'ing, because everything sounds really muddy at this point.

- There's not a lot of energy through this piece, which makes your slower sections seem slower. Also, by the time the 3:00 mark rolls around the string hits are getting old.

- Around 3:15-ish or so, when this new synth comes in again, it starts to blend with everything else you have going on, again.

Overall thoughts: Needs a lot of work. Some good ideas, but it needs to be cleaned up and checked for repetitious strings throughout the piece.

Hope that helps.

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Oh boy...I kinda agree here. EQ'ing not my strength either, but I can tell that this is uber muffled. OCR standards are hyper high nowadays =(, makes me wish I started remixing like 4 years ago lol.

REALLY nice ideas though, and good samples.

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Yeah, I remember this one. You had the tune being carried with a slick, cold techno sound (and when I say techno I mean it in the most literal sense). Now you have guitars thrown into the mix, which I think wasn't in your older version. Well-integrated, I may add.

You still have that tinny synth that plays the little riff with the brass from the original- it's still not sitting well with me. Everything else sounds "big" and this doesn't.

I agree with Escariot, that the remix gets too incoherent later on because it's not much source to work with. Instead of inventing totally original parts to fit the music, expand on the synth riff. It carries the most tension out of the whole source.

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Funny, because I wouldn't consider it to be too "muffled", but I think I know what you guys are getting at. I don't think the guitar was EQ'd very well, while the rest of the piece stands pretty well without it (albeit much less interesting). I mix very differently now, so I don't think I can really go back into this one and change it. I might take some of the ideas I had and do a seperate piece, though. This is one of the first ones that I started messing around with amp-modeling in, and it shows that I know what I want out of guitar now. Pain in the ass to have to teach myself these things, but I don't really like being "taught".

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Funny, because I wouldn't consider it to be too "muffled", but I think I know what you guys are getting at. I don't think the guitar was EQ'd very well, while the rest of the piece stands pretty well without it (albeit much less interesting). I mix very differently now, so I don't think I can really go back into this one and change it. I might take some of the ideas I had and do a seperate piece, though. This is one of the first ones that I started messing around with amp-modeling in, and it shows that I know what I want out of guitar now. Pain in the ass to have to teach myself these things, but I don't really like being "taught".

Just export a midi of your song and import it into a new project dood lol, it aint that hard :P

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It feels a bit inconsistant, orchestral and synthetic elements blended like this. It's one thing to use a smooth transition from one to the other, or make it a consistant soundscape mix, but like this... No. Either use a synth for soundscape earlier, or lose the silly sounding synth melody.

Once guitar and drums come in, it feels more consistant, but then I feel the melody should be on guitar, not on a synth. 1:38, the 80's settle in.

I don't hear what the others said about EQ, it sounds to me like there's too much reverb on stuff.

2:26, after a deviation from melody, this sounds more fitting with source, but doesn't sound familiar enough. Just grabbing the repeating staccato strings doesn't really work as "interpreting source". You need to tie back to source more often.

Synth at 3:00 and forth, that one's how a synth should sound. I suggest using the melody from source as a backing melody there.

The first half of the remix sounds more like a sound audition rather than a remix, so work out a more consistant sound, use more of the source... I know, it's not much source to use, but use it in different ways. Oh and, drop the reverb a bit, the orchestral parts need it, but the guitar sections should really lose reverb.

Too bad it took you almost half the song until it got good, and by then, it's kind'a far from source. See what you cna do about that. This could be one of the coolest tracks I've heard in a while, but it needs work to get there. Good luck!

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Just export a midi of your song and import it into a new project dood lol, it aint that hard :P

Not everyone writes everything raw in midi. I think most of this was mixed in Acid after I rendered pieces out to WAV. I do things differently now, but Orion Platinum isn't the best software for lengthy guitar pieces or sampling in general.

I'd use more of the source if there were any, but there isn't. I actually wrote more based on the source than you might notice, but it isn't readily apparent how the synth lead comes out of that. I know I had a pretty direct line of thought. I see that the reverb has muddled the mix a little, It's not the reason for the lack of definition, though - mostly I had a very vague concept of how to mix it spatially, and it didn't fall into place like my Super Metroid piece did. Crappy speakers to mix on pretty much put the nail in the coffin for the EQ.

I tend to listen to a lot of things like Razed in Black, which is pretty similar, if more professional. They use the same sort of elements, but RiB definitely blends better than this track managed to. I don't agree that you should keep the string and synth/guitar elements seperate, but I'm pretty open-minded about how instruments can be put together in a sense that most people don't relate to.

Thanks for the criticisms guys, I'll try to keep them in mind if I do another piece based on this. It's hard taking criticism even if I ask for it, sometimes. I tend to look back on things and think that for my abilities at the time it was very well composed, but it's still not what I wanted it to be. I'm glad to see that you all could still appreciate some of the parts, and that lends me hope to salvage some melodies out of the piece. It's more likely that I'll do something just outright original with them, since I had very little to take from the cavern theme.

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This is kind of a hard track to remix, since there is like... five seconds of source material, so props on going down the path less traveled.

I really do like this piece. Because of the lack of great source material, it leaves you open for your original stuff, and you exploited that opportunity very nicely in this piece.

I really do like the intro, regardless of how long it is. My only complaint about it is that the transition from intro to main feels a little loose and/or garbled.

Also, the string hits do get a little old after a while... but I'm not sure what else you would do with them, since that is pretty much your only fairly audible tie to the original piece...

Love the ending! You get more props for going down the path less traveled and making it look cool.

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I thought I'd commented on this already, but apparently not. I really only have one thing to say - the synth that plays those 8 short notes in the intro needs to go. It sounds absolutely horrible. It doesn't fit in with the rest (orchestral stuff) and it plays notes that just... don't fit in. Ick.

EDIT: Ok, I heard the rest of the song. I'm starting to think the awfulness of the synth there in the intro was deliberate and intentional? Oh, and I'm not trying to insult you - I just misunderstood what style you were aiming for. I personally don't like music to be this chaotic, but that's really up to you.

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Okay, after listening to it a few more times, I have to admit, I totally lied. The string hits never seem to get old to me... At first they did, mainly because I was having a hard time following the overlaying synth (it sounded familiar, and I was having a hard time placing it with anything I've heard before... I assume it 100% original stuff?). After a while, I was like, "Okay, I know you're there, shut up for a minute" but then I realized I was talking to a piece of music, and decided to just give up on everything, due to the fact that I'm crazy.

Naw... that whole last bit never actually happened.

So yeah... the mix is good! Great work!

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Okay, those are certainly some better reviews. I'll consider going back and fixing it up, but it's been a while since I wrote it.

I should check back on threads I make more often, I thought this one was pretty much dead after my last post.

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I love this mix. The original game track is there for tension and background noise, but I feel like you've turned that into a great mix. Personally, I feel like this is a lot better than a bunch of the stuff on this site. However, if you clean it up more to get rid of certain repetitious parts, it would just be amazing.

Good luck, and I want to hear more. Even if I don't hear more, though, I'm keeping this for my personal collection.

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Just out of preference, I'd love if the additions over the suspense loop had a little more to do with a theme from the game. Always a fan of skillful layering of two different but related themes.

Otherwise, decent track.

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ok. having little to no real experience in creating remixes i have to say that this sounded pretty good. i will, however, agree that there's not much to work with as far as a source. so...my suggestion is using a similar theme from that game and blending the two together. maybe a lost in the woods, lost in the caverns, stuck in the dark world combination? i dunno. i don't know how hard that is to conceive but i think it might be a cool mix. call it Zelda: LOST. lol. just brainstorming here.

on a side note, well, more like a compliment, i REALLY like the whole beginning. it sounds like you're actually in the caves lost and hearing things like wind and screams. maybe you could continue along that vein adding the sounds of zelda underground like stalfos charging you or the bats flying down. or the mice (eeew.). keep up the good work tho.

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