progressive Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Hey everyone. This is actually the first WIP I've posted. In it I sampled some of Daft Punk's Aerodynamic, which you'll hear from the start. It just hit me one day while I was driving that the battle music with Molgera from Wind Waker would fit perfectly with some Daft Punk electronica. I've lost my one good pair of headphones and I'm using a sub with monitor speakers (!), so I'm sure the EQ is all over the place. It's sitting at 3 minutes right now, but I'd actually like to slow it down towards the middle and morph the bass I'm sampling Aerodynamic with into an original melody. I thought I'd get some opinions on what I've got right now first, though. Please be honest and let me know what you think! Major UPDATE! 6.18.08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldntyouliketoknow Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 That's not bad. I personally love the Molgera theme, and Daft Punk. So this is a really good mix to me. The EQ sounds pretty good to me. I'm not a mixer, so I'm not exactly one to instruct you on this, but it sounds great so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nohbody Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 This is great, seriously something I'd listen to. If it was my mix (which I have none to speak of so dont take this heavily) I would intensify the drums, add snare or something else. Also theres lack of reverb in the main melody, like I know what Im talking about:| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF the Kitsune Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 I...er...but... Molgera... and Aerodyanmic? Combined into one song? *head explodes* Somebody give this man a medal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonectric Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Yeah, the EQing could use some work; the flutey thing in particular sounds rather low-quality. And the piano gets a little loud for something panned so heavily, in my opinion (I'm the kind of person who can't stand sharing earbuds for this reason). But wow, great arrangement/interpretation. It worked well, and I really enjoyed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloral Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 This is a great example of taking a piece I would have never thought would make a good remix. Yet you're pulling it off quite nicely. I have to agree that the piano is a bit loud right now. Especially since it has a lot of spacing in between notes, this creates volume spikes that are a bit too high in my mind. But from your comment about the eq it seems like you already suspected this might be the case. Keep at it and I'm sure you'll produce a great mix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue.nocturne Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 It's pretty good, but I would have to say that percussion seems a bit wimpy. Some of the instruments sound a tad midi-esque sadly, especially the taiko and pizzicato. There are some moments of note discord, some work well, but I will try to mention all the spots where they are too off the wall: 0:55, the entrance of the flute seems to be in a strange key compared to the rest 1:25, the flute sounds odd 1:50, the piano has one of the middle low notes off 1:53, the piano again, the transition feels off key 2:08, the high piano before the da-duh transition, the transitional chords work The piano sounds off because it's lays out the chords, but it actually may be the flute's fault. Everything else sounds fine. It has an interesting feel to it, and is pretty catchy, but in terms of quality it needs some work. Great potential though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrixth Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Great work, it's definiately not a combination I would have ever thought of. Comment-wise, It seems to have forward movement and progression, but there could be a little more of that. It seems to dawdle in some places, like when the bells come in first. It just doesn't move along very... well. Other than that, your samples could use some excitement. I appreciate the synth flute because it sounds very similar to the one in the actual song. Your drums are kind of... lackluster. Just a little pre-submit adjustment to make them more exciting or whatnot. But apart from those two things, it's a pretty great WIP. Love when the drums bust out towards the end half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
progressive Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Alright I went out and bought myself a nice new pair of headphones and the comments were pretty spot on. The ocarina (which I've purposely kept similar to the original, for better or for worse) is actually a bit piercing. I'll tone it down. The drums are not near as punchy as they were with my sub, so I'll fix that. I promise they really sound good at the right volume level! Piano was a bit loud. I also need to tweak some of the instruments. And thanks for the rundown, blue.nocturne, I'll check on those inconsistencies. I'll try to post an update soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishy Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Just a little pre-submit adjustment I can't listen to the song at the moment, but I have a quick note; If you do intend on submitting something, you will get an auto-rejection for using non-game music unless its in a very minor way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
progressive Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 Alright, here's a minor update, mainly to fix the EQ and balancing issues I talked about. I also slowed it down by about 10 bpm, added reverb where needed, panned some instruments, and replaced the pizzicato strings and piano with (hopefully) better samples. Drums are also louder now. I'm working on a middle section, but it might take a bit with work and all. As for the non-game music issue, I'll have to look into what's considered "minor." I only used four measures. Hey, Vanilla Ice got away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Thought I had commented on this... Apparently not. It has source, and it has original content, I'd say it's ok as far as source vs interpretation is concerned. I am missing the big crash and lift tho. The electronica the listener is introduced to in the very beginning is reminiscent of 90's pop electronica, but then it just becomes this weird blend of light electronica and various orchestral sounds, sometimes rising to what could be an awesome drum-heavy section, but fading back to status quo before anything really happened. I dunno what to say about it, on one hand it's artistic choice, on the other hand, Liontamer NOed Fru's long mix because it never left "build-up mode". Sure, he wants beef, the other judges are a little less concerned with that, but you should decide earlier on if you're going the mellow way or the beefy way, and not make it as ambiguous as it currently is. It's decent music, sure (the piano might need to be looked at), but it's caught between styles. That makes it hard to critique it, too. Good luck with it, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPhantron Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hey there. I've been listening to the remix for a while now, and I really like your take on the Molgera song. It has a very "Ballad of the Windfish" feel to it. I was listening to your newer version of the song, and I noticed that you pulled the Ocarina into the background. Because of this the song lacked any lead foreground instrument. The plucking instrument or whatever you used at 1:48 in the song was too far in the foreground, it seemed to overpower all the other instruments, which is a problem since it sounds like it was just there to 'add' to the other instruments. It sounds like the song could use these changes: 1. Bring the Ocarina back to the foreground as the lead instrument. 2. Lower the volume of the Drums by a bit. 3. The plucking instrument at 1:48 needs to be in the background just 'adding' to the song, not taking it over. As the song stands right now, I very much prefer your first version. Excellent work so far, Progressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
progressive Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Finally, the update you've all been waiting for! Yeah right, huh? I took several people's advice, and ended up changing just about everything but the lead instrument sample. Rozovian, I think you were right about it sounding like a weird mix of electronica and orchestral sounds. Some of it worked, and some didn't. I hope I took out what didn't and not what did. I've tried to push it toward the electronica side by taking out the taiko drum and some other various instruments and adding a drum beat I made myself (I'll vary it up a bit later). I've also slowed it way down to allow for a bit more flexibility with the melodies and background noises. Consequently, I've lost some of the forward movement but gained a head-nodding groove that I think I like better. Everything else has changed so much that I won't bother to comment on it all. Just have a listen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cipher Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 What a difference half a version makes - V2.0 is much better than V1.5 and, in my opinion, everything's an improvement. As I'm not an artist, I can't suggest any further ways to improve it, but this is a mix I'd definitely love to see on OC ReMix. I personally can't see any more ways to improve it, but again, I'm not an artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHz Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Molgera is one of my favorite boss themes of all time. As for the non-game music issue, I'll have to look into what's considered "minor." I only used four measures. Hey, Vanilla Ice got away with it. It may be four measures from the source, but those four measures are the backbone of the entire mix; when it isn't being directly played by an instrument, the chord progression is still there. Given that just about the whole mix is based on the Daft Punk source, I'd call that pretty significant usage. But given that Molgera is one of my favorite boss themes of all time, we will press on! In the beginning, I wasn't really feeling how the Molgera melody fit in with the rest of the track. The original Molgera melody is wonderful and dancelike, and even though it's slowed down in your mix, it's still too, um, "hoppy" at 0:19-1:00. The dancing phrases don't really fit with the slow groove and it sounds quite like you made the backing track and just slapped Molgera on top of it. Altering it to fit the rest of the track would also be good from an arrangement standpoint, because it's played identically to the original and on the same instrument. The interpretation of the melody in the chimes starting at 1:10 is a lot better fit for the track, but that little quote in the woodwind at 1:14-1:20 is again mismatched. 2:01 with the woodwind, however, is perfect, although the instrument itself is a bit of a weird match with the rest of the sounds in the mix. Same with the harp shots in a couple of places like 3:00; just seemed like a weird choice. You're going to vary up the drumbeat? Fantastic. It feels pretty bad in the first minute or so when it's exposed while layers are still being added to the song. The kick feels like it has too much punch, too, so it's kind of distracting. By the end, the drums so drowned out by other stuff that you can barely hear it, so the track loses a bit of groove. The volume is pretty low on this, so I'd bump it up a few notches. There's a lot of space for some dynamic contrast if you want to build up to something or have a break somewhere, since this stays pretty much at the same level throughout. If you want, I suppose. Pretty interesting take on Molgera, I thought. There isn't a whole ton of interpretation on the melody, even down to the instrument being the same for a good portion of it, and actually I thought that the parts where the melody was verbatim didn't work as well as when it was changed up. Work on trying to make it fit in with the whole track instead of sounding tacked on. The overall development is fine; more variety in some of the parts would be good, especially the drums, but the track never stagnates. As far as the Daft Punk usage goes, considering how integral it is to this, I'd say not to submit this unless you're comfortable with a complete overhaul. Just put the finishing touches on it and then move on to the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
progressive Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 Well it's one of my favorites, too, which is why I took a stab at this. My idea to use Daft Punk was tailored to this song - I didn't try to drop the source onto Aerodynamic. I agree, though, that slowing the mix down as much as I did really unhinged my work from the source. If you want to listen to how it sounded before, here's the link: Molgera (untitled) WIP v1.5.mp3 I also wanted to preserve some things from the original, which is why I didn't change the melody in the first half (and also the reason for those weird harp parts that I think I'll take out), but I'll see what I can do about matching it to the new tempo. I think I'll also add a break and start relayering some of the elements, because though no one's complained about the second half being a little cluttered, I think it is. I might also experiment with some tempo changes and see what I can come up with. As for the non-game-music problem, I've heard lots of songs with the same chord progressions. If I reworked the DP parts, do you think it would still be an issue? I'd really like to submit this one at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHz Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Well it's one of my favorites, too, which is why I took a stab at this. My idea to use Daft Punk was tailored to this song - I didn't try to drop the source onto Aerodynamic. I agree, though, that slowing the mix down as much as I did really unhinged my work from the source. If you want to listen to how it sounded before, here's the link: Molgera (untitled) WIP v1.5.mp3I also wanted to preserve some things from the original, which is why I didn't change the melody in the first half (and also the reason for those weird harp parts that I think I'll take out), but I'll see what I can do about matching it to the new tempo. I think I'll also add a break and start relayering some of the elements, because though no one's complained about the second half being a little cluttered, I think it is. I might also experiment with some tempo changes and see what I can come up with. The melody fits a little better, but I gotta say, the 2.0 version is a huge improvement. Definitely feeling what Rozo said about it not being able to figure out what style it's supposed to be. Just keep working on making the track more cohesive and play with some new ideas; you're doing fine so far. Another thing I forgot to mention in the first post is that there are a few places where I thought the chords weren't working with the melody, mainly in the beginning where the melody is verbatim, which didn't help with that tacked-on feel. The one that sticks out to me most is 0:58 at the end of the phrase. You could mess with the melody, thus bumping up the arrangement factor a bit, or mess with the chords, adding some variety on that level because you use the same four for most/all of the mix and distancing yourself a bit from Aerodynamic. Win/win in my book, if you want to submit this. As for the non-game-music problem, I've heard lots of songs with the same chord progressions. If I reworked the DP parts, do you think it would still be an issue? I'd really like to submit this one at some point. Depends on how much you rework it. If you change up or remove all of the melodic runs so just the chords from Aerodynamic are left, you might have a shot if the progression is as common as you say it is (I really can't speak with any sort of authority on them at all), but I can see a debate between "it's just four common chords I can pick x number of songs and even y remixes that use them" and "yeah but they're intentionally incorporated from a non-game track." I love mashups and otherwise combining tracks like this, don't get me wrong, but doing it with a non-game track isn't what OCR's about. I'd actually recommend changing up the chords anyway during the track just for variety's sake, because the same four get stale after a while. If you're really set on submitting this, my recommendation would be to minimize the parts where you're playing notes from Aerodynamic or remove them entirely, and mess with the chords a bit. Of course, that will also pretty much destroy any of the connection with DP, so it's a bit of an either/or. A little quotation would be fine, but a large-scale combination like what you have now wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nohbody Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I like the new version better. You slowed the piece down, though, and I think that hurts it a little, although you added parts that would sound awkward if you sped it up now. Just make the main melody sound less like it was made on a computer, and youll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF the Kitsune Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Yeah, I gotta agree with Glitch. I was kind of disappointed when I noticed that the piece was fairly slowed down, but you made up for it in a ton of different areas. I think a sped up alternate version would be nice, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplinterOfChaos Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I actually like the sped up version more. Sounds like I'm alone, though. But both versions are amazing work to someone like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloral Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I actually like the sped up version more. Sounds like I'm alone, though.But both versions are amazing work to someone like me. You're not alone. I think the eq levels in the new version are really good, however I find myself missing the speed of the old one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplecowadoom Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Well, you have some talent here, just not the kind of music I can get into. Good work overall though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I'm not invalidating your feedback, just wondering... why post on a wip that hasn't had an update in several months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
progressive Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 I thought that was pretty funny, too... especially since this is the old thread. If you want to check out the new one, it's at http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17982 I will post a small update there to make all this relevant. -prog (P.S. Mods can you lock this thread?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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