zircon & sgx place #3 and #6 in OurStage June - Thanks for the help guys!

[Fishy]

I genuinely hope that any skeptics will discover this information, and take it into account. We are just regular people here, doing what OurStage asks all the quarterfinals to do: get fans to vote. The end.

I was offered a free CD for voting for Hajime in the finals, and I bought it anyway because I thought Jill deserved it. That is what a fan does, they support their favorite artists. Not a crime last time I checked.

[Jillian Aversa]

I was offered a free CD for voting for Hajime in the finals, and I bought it anyway because I thought Jill deserved it. That is what a fan does, they support their favorite artists. Not a crime last time I checked.

Hehe, well that's not quite right. I offered digital downloads of my CD for people joining my fanclub, in conjunction with the "get more fans" contest back in March. But as you said, it's not against the rules either way.

[Fishy]

Oh sorry yeah, it was that; was a long time ago. But anyway, I have a physical CD on my shelf for a reason, and it isn't criminal.

[sgx]

I just posted this on my Ourstage blog:

I’ve been discussing some things with some folks in certain places and am rethinking my strategy concerning my offers to make albums available for free download if I win.

Honestly, the idea came when I was setting up my entries for the April competition…I was thinking to myself, “man, if I get that $5k, that’s probably more than I’ll sell in a year! I’d love to give something back to fans that come here and spend time voting for me.” Along the line, the idea got twisted a bit into “if I win, you get stuff”.

I’m still not sure how unethical I think this is. On one hand, I’ve maybe got an advantage over artists who don’t have more music to share. However, I’m sure plenty of artists could do the same thing if they really wanted to. My music is good enough that it makes people either want to pay the $6 I charge for it or spend some of their time on a website voting to support an artist they are a fan of. It’s still music I am using to get a competitive edge in a music competition – it’s not like I’m paying money to rig an election. But, I guess it still is a bit of a bribe – its bringing outside elements in to influence a competition that is supposed to take place inside of a judging-vacuum (though there are plenty of other leaks).

A few other artists I’ve seen have offered music for votes as I’ve seen, and it made my few doubts at the time go away for a bit.

So, I won in April – I’m not sure how much of it had to do with the free music. I went ahead and allowed free music downloads for a week, and about $5,000 worth (at the rates I sell my music at in my webstore) was downloaded. My site got broken because of the traffic for a bit. That was cool. I’m very happy more people got to hear my stuff even if they are cheapskates

I withdrew the songs I had set for the May competition because I didn’t feel the need to be greedy, but I was ready to rock it in June and I returned with the same deal.

So now I’ve been having and reading some interesting debates on this subject, both with good points on each side. I haven’t really decided for sure what I think about it, but put together the fact that I’m not positive what I’m doing is ethically alright with me, and that I’ve already won the grand prize once, I think I’ve decided not to do this type of deal again. I don’t want to be a cheater (even if what I am doing is ok with the site staff), or to come off as an asshole, and I don’t want to be greedy. Music is not about the money for me, though I do like to do my best to make money from this hobby when I can.

Now, I did promise people that I’d be giving away music if I won some. I’ve got a lot of their votes, and I can’t deny them the music I promised I would provide.

So, right now, I am making all of my downloadable albums available until July 4th.

Here they are: Outmoded – this is basically a collection of my really old tracks from 4 years ago and before www.sgxmusic.com/outmodedmp3.zip

Synesthetic – I dunno…decent electronic music from 2004. www.sgxmusic.com/Synesthetic 1.1 Digital Download.zip

Chroma – Good electronic music 2006 – contains the full version of Haven www.sgxmusic.com/Chroma MP3.zip

Hero of the Grey Area – my newest album from 2008. I’m quite proud of it, and I hope you like it. It’s a bit more experimental and abstract. Less dancy. www.sgxmusic.com/hotga – mp3.rar

i.transmit.this EP – some friends of mine remixed this 4 part song I wrote (which is also on Hero of the Grey Area. www.sgxmusic.com/itt_mp3.rar

These are all high quality mp3 copies. I offer copies in lossless FLAC too. If you want those, please go to my webstore at www.protagonistrecords.net/buy/ and go through the purchase process…I have set all prices on download items to 0.

Also, remember my two remix albums are always free downloads. YOu can get them at www.sgxmusic.com/btsb.htm and www.sgxmusic.com/sgxrmx2.htm

So, since you’ve got my free music now, I hope you’‘ll still have the will to vote me up in the finals tonight. Thanks! Enjoy the music.

Reading some of the posts in here made me think more about the "deal" I had made for the votes. While I'm still pretty gray on what I think about it, I don't want to do that anymore, and I hope it won't influence the competition any further for me. I already won once...I don't need to win again under possibly shady circumstances.

[sgx]

Hehe, well that's not quite right. I offered digital downloads of my CD for people joining my fanclub, in conjunction with the "get more fans" contest back in March. But as you said, it's not against the rules either way.

That is very, very close to the "if I win" thing you were condemning. You are paying someone to do something they normally wouldn't in order to win a contest.

[Lori Cunningham]

I have the utmost respect for Jillian - as a person and as a musician. Ever since I found her on myspace, I have looked up to her with her ability to write wonderful lyrics and melodies. And her voice is like velvet.... I just love it. I wanted to say that, to get that out.

You guys have worked really hard to build this community and to refine your art. Being a musician takes dedication, sacrifice, and many times frustration and tears. So hats off to what you have built. For those of us who don't have access to a community this big to plug our music in a competition of this size, you can see where some might feel the injustice. But with that said, I don't feel like it's right to judge someone's track better just because they belong to this forum. I literally kissed my house and family goodbye for a week so I could sit here on the computer and judge and meet new people from 8 in the morning to 12 at night or later. I love the people I met, and they are truly my friends. But my family suffered, I suffered. I have three little boys, ages 8, 5, and 2. I sacrificed and did that because I don't have the fan base to support me because I'm just beginning. It was a great opportunity to get exposure. I made it into the quarter finals without voting in Techno even once, btw. But I knew after that, the games would begin and I was going to fight for my chance. I haven't heard of anyone else doing that yet.

OurStage is a great way to get exposure and to find music and other friends we would have never found any other way. Yes, there are flaws. There are bound to be when they have that much cash on the line. Talent needs to speak for itself on there, not votehording. I'm am not going to waste my energy on this anymore, and neither should anybody else. I'm going to invest my time and energy into refining my art and remembering why I started making music in the first place. I will not stop competing on OurStage, but I need to find a better balance in my life. If I win? Great. If not? At least I know that I tried my best with making the best song I could. The end.

What are YOU going to do?

[Xenon Odyssey]

This argument will never cease because there are people out there who are only about getting free music, and then the people who try and support their favorite artist, regardless of whether or not the song it is up against is 10x better.

As far as I understood, Andy made the thread reminding people that this contest is going on, and stated the several OCR artist who are in the contest. He said nothing of VOTING for them. So it's up to the listener to decide, which goes along with the first sentence.

Also, I saw the OurStage debate thread of '08.

[pdzarv]

My band happens to be on the number one spot as I write tonight. I got a message from an OURSTAGE user who warned me against ZIRCON and SGX because "they have a 21,000 member fan base and you'd better get all the votes you can" etc. etc.

First I was pissed. Then I thought. Damn! OURSTAGE rules say that you must Do all ya can to develeop a fan base and after 25 yrs. in the music biz I think that OCremix is a freakin fantastic way to get more fans to my music. this biz is not all fuzzy and cuddly. YES! the music is the most important thing, BUT...one has to do what one has to do to get their music heard!! That said.......

I AM NOW ASKING ALL PEOPLE HERE AT OCREMIX.com (ZIRCON and SGX INCLUDED) because hopefully you're not in the Blues channel... TO GO TO OURSTAGE.COM, GO TO THE BLUES CHANNEL AND CHECK OUT OUR BAND: THE AC THUNDERTONES SONG CALLED : (MISSIN YOU) AND VOTE FOR IT TONIGHT BECAUSE IT IS NUMBER ONE RIGHT NOW AND IF IT STAYS THERE FOR THREE MORE HOURS WE COULD WIN!!!! THANK YOU EVERYONE AT OCREMIX.COM. I am just doing what sucessful acts do. Try to make my band more visible and gain more support! Paulie Fingers ~ The AC Thundertones

[Lori Cunningham]

Wow. There's nothing left to say.

[zircon]

Hi Paulie - congrats on getting into the finals and doing well so far. I liked your song quite a bit, actually. I think you might have the wrong idea about OCR though, this isn't really a place to advertise music, per se. No one gets promoted here that hasn't been participating in the community for years, releasing lots of free music and establishing connections with many people. We earn our fans from this site just like everyone else!

Now, I want to emphasize something that Jill said on the last page: while I have been making these threads each month, the "active" OCR community (according to our forum software) consists of no more than about 1,000 people. This number, however, includes far more people than those who are reading the forum on a day by day basis. The number further dwindles because not everyone is a fan of us. Obviously, if you don't like my music or sgx's, you're not going to vote in a contest for us!

Remember this fact. I posted in March asking people on OCR to sign up and join both my fanclub and Jill's, as OurStage asked us to do. I then emailed everyone on my mailing list, and Jill emailed everyone on hers. Yet even considering this - and our supposedly massive community of 22,000 - SIX people on OurStage had added more fans than us. Wil Deynes actually had more fans than both of us combined!

Lori, I really do feel for you. I know how it feels to be in a position where your fanbase isn't as large as you want it. It's really important that you realize though that we really don't have an unfair advantage here. Did you know that over the last four years or so, I have released four albums and posted extensively about each one here? Yet if you combined ALL those album sales over the last four years, it would be less than 1,000 - and MANY of those sales are not from OCR. As hard as it might be to believe, this really isn't an enormous community, and it's very difficult to get even active users to support the original music of artists. This is a site about video game music, after all. Jill and I have had to spend the entire day talking to friends, fans, and family members just like you. We DON'T have massive fanbases. And at the end of the day, none of us are even in the top 10 right now.

[Jillian Aversa]

Yeah... Wow. Amazing what people can convince themselves to believe about OCR. This is getting pretty ridiculous. I don't even know of more than 10 OCR people voting right now if that, so you guys really have the wrong idea.

[DrumUltimA]

this thread is off da heezy!

[Lori Cunningham]

Zircon,

I'm not saying that you don't deserve every single fan, every single sale, or every single win. I stated before that I find your and Jillian's music amazing. If not in those exact words, I said something like that. I know the music biz is hard and I know that sales are going down. I'm not discrediting you at all. And sales are different than biasing an outcome for something free. I'm fine that I didn't make the finals. Yes, at first I was disappointed, but I'm fine. And I know you guys have worked really hard. Didn't I state that in my last post? Your music is great, I have voted for you on OurStage, not because I have heard of you before, but because your music was better than who you were up against. That's all I have asked people to do. But yet I was hearing of people judging against me just because they wanted free music. And yes, that's life. I'm not bitter nor angry or anything. Everyone has to start somewhere. And I didn't spend 1 day talking to people, I spent 8 days.

I have to tell you, when "Breathing You In" comes on in my house in the rotation on my mp3 player, my kids get all excited and start pretending the play the "instruments" and dancing around and stuff. It's the cutest thing! You have a fan here.

There has to be somewhat of an influence of this site. You have to admit that. But didn't you read that I complimented you on your hard work for building it? And if I'm wrong, than I'm sorry. I want to get back to the real reason why we make music anyway and not worry any of this.

So anyway, let's not worry about this anymore, really.

[zircon]

Lori, I do thank you for being a fan and it's touching that your kids enjoy "Breathing You In" and dance around to it. Jill and I used to do that to, as kids.

I didn't mean to sound hostile or unappreciative, and if I did, I apologize. I was just sympathizing with you, as I've been in your position (and still am, in many respects!)

You may notice in the first post I specifically told people that we (OCR artists) do not want an illegitimate victory. I honestly mean that. I do not want anyone to vote on my music over someone else's if it is legitimately not as good. I do not want anyone to cheat or be dishonest on my behalf, which includes voting down other people. When I am voting in the finals I always evaluate every song pair fairly even if that means voting on a song favorably when it is already #1.

If I truly thought most people here were intentionally voting in a dishonest way, I would not post these threads. It was really disappointing to hear the people who liked your song better voting sgx above you for the prize, and I would never condone that (and as you saw by sgx's post above, he doesn't either.) However, I know the OCR community and I've spoken personally to many of the people voting. I have heard enough to have a solid belief that people here are only voting for us because they genuinely love our music, and they do not vote dishonestly, and in fact may vote certain songs higher if they really like those more.

Also, this may have gone without saying, so let me say it now: I enjoy your music very much as well! I'm glad Jill discovered you.

[Jewbei]

Yeah man I agree, I remember when i found this site way back in 2000 and man oh man everyone has come a LONG way. Even though im mainly very active in VGMix something always draws me back to this site. I know this is a lil off topic but A long time ago i was going to submit a Trance mix (i cant remember what it was) I was told not to submit it because "OCR hates trance, Trance remixes never makes it onto OCR" then i look at bLiNd (my main influence for my music I really look up to him) im like wtf is this nigga is saying if he can make it then so can I. I'm going to be real honest here. Even though i honed my skills over at VGMix, it was OCR that always brings the best out of me and forces me to push harder. When I first submitted La CLub La Emeraldz Larry and the others all pointed of my weaknesses and no one has been able to do that and I really thank them it was in a sense a wake up call and every since that NO ive gotten ive been busting my ass stuying new music and learning new skills. So getting a song on OCR is like winning the oscars for me lol.

P.S. Sorry for the long ass post

[DarkeSword]

Hey Paulie. Submit some video game arrangements here.

You too Lori.

[Jillian Aversa]

AHHHHH, Andy got THIRD place, and sgx got 6! So close this month.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, and 8 minutes before it ended Andy was #1. This competition is crrraaaazy!

[zircon]

Thank you to everybody that voted. It is very much appreciated, and while no one from OCR won this month, we did very well nonetheless. Let's all hope we get even more great talent into the quarter/semi/finals THIS month! Remember, if you're an artist, you can submit for free. You have nothing to lose by doing so and everything to gain.

[sgx]

What a wonderful night of being stressed out.

Thanks for votes!

[Bahamut]

Well that was a disappointment - I thought the first two sucked .

[Chickenwarlord]

I'm kind of sad that The End of Love and Flight of the Dragon didn't place higher.

Good luck to y'all next month.

[OverCoat]

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