Bren

Diablo III

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Well, this is where it comes down to preference, I guess.

Leveling up to 60 is pointless because of the nonexistent post-game content

I thought leveling to 60 was one of the most fun parts of the game. Again, I don't know where this notion that all video games should be about the end and not the journey came up. I literally could not stop playing until I hit Inferno. It's incredibly addicting how you grow in power and constantly get new skills & runes. Plus, because the difficulty is tuned much better in Normal-Hell (unless you use the auction house, which I mostly didn't) you feel like you're very powerful, but that there's a decent challenge starting in NM. It's funny because on the reddit Diablo forum, which is VERY negative overall, almost everyone agrees that the basic 1-60 leveling experience is really fun and done well.

I don't get the supposed endgame of Diablo 2 either. That was probably my favorite PC game ever, and I bought it about three times with expansion, but it had very little in the way of endgame. Hell was overall a joke of a difficulty. You could get rushed to 70-80 in less than an afternoon and beat Baal easily. There was no challenge that compares to Inferno in D3. The endgame was searching for items. It took them something like 6 years after LoD came out to actually add any additional monster content in the form of Ubers, which were of course easily farmed by many. So what exactly are you remembering with regards to D2 endgame? The way I played it, along with most people I knew, was that we would all roll new characters periodically, level up, grind gear, get maxed out, and then stop.. then do it again in a year.

Let's talk about PVP. I would love to see D3 PVP, sure. But I doubt it will be any more interesting or serious than D2 PVP, which was essentially a joke (and this is coming from someone who actively PVPed). D2 PVP was 99% Amazons with Burizas or Windforces shooting guided arrows from 3 screens away. There was no semblance of balance, especially after 1.10 when they basically gave everyone Teleport and Whirlwind via runewords. Why people think this was such an amazing thing is beyond me. I had fun with it, but only because I had a group of intelligent people to play with. Trying to do any kind of organized PVP in public games was impossible, and don't even attempt to tell me the hostile/PK thing was fun or an 'endgame'.

That being said, I agree skill diversity isn't optimal in Inferno, and I think Blizzard realized this, hence all the skill buffs coming up. Monks were probably most limited of all, but now that you can actually output serious damage with stuff like Wave of Light and SSS, I think you could make a very fun build focusing on burst damage which previously was impossible. With 2handers being buffed and all the numerous legendary item -> skill boosts I bet there could be a lot of other fun possibilities as well.

I do agree on map randomization. It's fine for outdoor areas like Act 1 stuff, but no idea why a lot of the dungeons aren't more randomized in terms of layout. My guess/hope is that Blizzard will run with the idea someone suggested of an endless dungeon with increasingly hard monsters as you go down. Even if you don't get unique loot there (just ilvl 63 stuff), it would be fun to brag about how far you got.

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I don't think the draw of Inferno was supposed to be better items... they pitched it as just being a big challenge, for people that like being tortured with difficulty. And that's pretty much what Inferno was, though it has been toned down since. They also improved drop rates and made ilvl 61-63 items drop in Acts 1-2. Plus they're making ilvl 61-62 weapons better next.

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I don't think the draw of Inferno was supposed to be better items... they pitched it as just being a big challenge, for people that like being tortured with difficulty. And that's pretty much what Inferno was, though it has been toned down since. They also improved drop rates and made ilvl 61-63 items drop in Acts 1-2. Plus they're making ilvl 61-62 weapons better next.

Well, if you look at Diablo 2, leveling up was still sort of the endgame for the player - along with finding phat loot. Making a level cap of 60 is a huge mistake for a dungeon crawler game, unless you have good 'end game content' - which I guess was never really the main focus of the Diablo series (at least to the best of my knowledge). Different generation of gaming?

EDIT And I quoted the wrong post. GG me. Anyways I have only one thing to say about Inferno. "We doubled it".

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I really don't get why people found that funny or stupid or bad design. I actually think Inferno should have been even harder, along with Hell, but don't put all the best item drops at the end of Inferno. What happened was a few people used exploits (basically) to get to Act 3/4 to farm as DH/Wizard, which then messed up the economy. Meanwhile, it took hardcore players WAY longer to beat Inferno for the first time because the economy didn't have the same problem.

Anyway, I don't think having an XP grind was meaningful at all. It was really easy to hit level 80 or so; you could do it in a few hours. 80-90 was like a few days maybe. Then after 90, you leveled up so slowly that it was basically pointless. I don't think I had any characters above 90 or 91, and most were 75-80.

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Zirc, I don't think you really get what the problem was with inferno.

I try to keep comparisons to D2 outside of the discussion because D2 is a 12 year old game. You would expect a company like freakin Blizzard to do better on their on 12 year old product.

They actually pitched inferno as being difficult, but they ALSO said that you could play inferno with your own builds. I linked a couple of videos about it in this thread. I can't beat inferno unless I play one of the cookie-cutter shield barb builds, and when i get like a billion gold or so, THEN I can play a barbarian the way I would like to play it.

I hate to repeat myself but the worst thing about D3 is the AH. It ruined everything. It ruined the item farm, which in turn ruined the economy, which in turn ruined the diversity, which then ruined the difficulty. Who the hell cares about an Inferno clear? pick a cookie-cutter build, go with it and there you go.

D3 was incomplete and untested at launch. The game was fun till you get to inferno, then it's just a gold farm/follow the best build game.

And after taking a look at the patch notes, I don't think it's gonna get any better. Some of the skills, like Wizard's meteor, got a good buff, but most of the useless skills in all the classes got a 10-20% buff which IMO wont be enough and they will have to just patch it again later. Who the hell is going to take bash over frenzy for just a 10% damage buff? that's incredibly stupid.

The legendary procs look nice though. I really don't see this patch making my friend list get more active again (well, except for Zircon it seems XD) luckily this isn't WoW and I can just log in and check stuff after the patch without having to pay monthly for it, so I'll see you guys in-game.

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I'd also like to point out that removing the ability to rush lower level characters is bullshit - all it means is that I'm going to be level 40 fucking forever, since all my friends are already at level 60 and the only way I'll catch up is by playing through the game six or seven more times.

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Diablo 3's problem is that it's being compared with Diablo 2, a game that had an expansion and a lot of polishing through patches. It had a lot of time to mature & gain a ton of content. Perhaps it'll take Diablo 3 time to reach that point - it may never reach that point also. It's hard to judge at this point though.

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Soooo...they raised the level cap...without raising the level cap...and we're...excited?

Well, it would have been unrealistic to expect them to make another 100 levels worth of skills and runes. Impossible, really. Most players just wanted a little bonus that came from playing the game, much like how in D2 you got your little 5 stat points per level. It's not like a level 95 character in D2 was truly more powerful than a level 90, you just had a slight edge. Getting permanent MF/GF and stats for grinding and doing runs is a very nice reward, particularly if you're on an unlucky streak. You can always look to your XP bar and see progress being made. A LOT of players + streamers were asking for this exact feature.

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Interview with David Brevik, co-founder of Blizzard North and design lead on D2:

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/interview-diablo-creator-david-brevik-discusses-his-feelings-on-diablo-3

I just about shit a brick there - thought it was fake, but its real =/

You should read Jay Wilson's facebook comments regarding it too. Well, the entire D3 team's =p

Edited by HoboKa

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Cant decide if i wanna play my wiz or barb for paragon levels. But I'll be playing right after the patch, if anyone wants to join me for a few runs.

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http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/08/blizzard-to-extend-diablo-iii-endgame-with-100-new-character-levels/

"With the release of the upcoming 1.0.4 patch, level 60 characters in Diablo III will start earning experience towards a new set of "Paragon levels" with each monster they kill. Besides upgrading characters stats like standard levels, each Paragon level will also increase your character's ability to find gold and magical items by three percent. That should help prevent what Blizzard calls the "demoralizing" problem of playing for hours without finding any good items, and prevent players from having to resort to tactics like "Magic Find gear swapping" just to find the best loot. Paragon levelers will also get "a distinctive increasingly impressive border" around their character portrait for every ten levels they earn."

I know this was previously discussed but...seriously? So you have to get to top level, just to start grinding on the same character again in a DIFFERENT leveling system. I am confuzd.

Edited by Level 99

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The idea is, as I see it, that upon reaching level 60, players are no longer rewarded for further gameplay time they accrue, despite there being a potentially infinite system in place for rewarding players in this way.

This concept is nothing new to the RPG experience, but is one of the first times I've seen it deployed in an online setting. It's something you usually see in games like Disgaea, Final Fantasy, and Star Ocean.

In each case there is an "endgame" level tier, whereupon class features and special abilities have all been awarded and there is no more advancement in that regard. However, there still exists more potential for "hard stat building through sheer time spent playing" in the form of the typical statistical gains players found in gaining prior levels.

This is also one of the first times I've seen this concept given a separate name and actually being a separate part of the experience. I believe the current problem some are having with it stems from this striation.

TL;DR Guys calm down, RPG's have been doing this for years. They've just been sneakier about it.

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Anyone else see this? David Brevik was asked about his thoughts on D3 and gave an honest and rather muted response, and here's how some current Blizzard employee's reacted:mVhWE.png

Not shown in the pic: Andrew Chamber's comment:

"Cant wait to see how he brings all his answers to Marvels diablo clone. Looking forward to him beating us out of the industry with his actions!"

I always thought that Jay Wilson was kind of a d-bag...

Edited by Vakri

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Just stupid drama. They posted it (presumably) privately on Facebook. Brevik accused them of not reacting quickly, which I thought was a bullshit thing to say when I can almost guarantee everyone on the D3 team has been working 80 hour weeks since release (and probably before).

Anyway, as for 1.0.4, it's AWESOME. This is the Diablo I love!

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