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Steam: Yes or No?

The Damned

By The Damned,
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The Damned Enthusiast

The Damned

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So, I see Left4Dead and think "I wonder if the demo's out", and yes, it is.

But to gt the demo, I have to install Steam. I know a lot of Valve titles use Steam, like Half Life2 and Team Fortress 2, but I also hear and read about some rather important issues.

Noteably, there are privacy issues with Steam uploading data from your system without permission or warning, and issues with updates and instability.

But with that said, Left4Dead seems awfully tempting.

Anyone ever have any significant problems with Steam, or know of any other problems that the program has?

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Vivi22 Newbie

Vivi22

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I've been using Steam since about a year or a year and a half after it's release and have never had a problem. Also, I think you're a little more worried about the information they get from your system than you need to be. They don't share any specific information about you with other companies for instance, just aggregate data about all users. Honestly, I think part of what makes Steam awesome is that they can get information on both the hardware their users use and how the software runs on it so that they make games that are as compatible with most users systems as possible, and fix issues that arise faster and better. If them collecting info to make better products down the road is a deal breaker for you then so be it, but I don't mind it one bit.

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The Damned Enthusiast

The Damned

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I'm kind of a privacy guy... I once refused to open a bag at a local (non-international) airport because I didn't feel like having my rights violated by some guy that gets paid to do so. I told them so, and they almost held me back until a higher-up person (manger or something) told them to just let me through.

So yeah, it's a bit of an issue with me. I'd like to know more about what they're reporting and to whom.

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Necrotic Newbie

Necrotic

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I've been using Steam since it first entered beta like 5 years ago, and I can say while it isn't always perfect, the only reason it's not perfect is because it usually involves Valve doing some massive-scale project that helps benefit the community of gamers that plays their games, and that can occassionally, yes, lead to instabilility. The program itself apparently uses really heavy security measures as well and so there's really nothing to worry about in terms of instability causing you to lose your investments or anything like that. The only way that will happen is if you're stupid enough to get phished out of your account password.

The reason Valve collects data from people is to aggregate all the possible configurations of hardware people have, check to see how their performance is on certain pieces of software, and create their games so that everyone on a vasy majority of PC's can play them. That's a huge problem in PC games instrustry is that 90% of games released cannot be played on a vast majority of computers at the time. Valve has the upper hand there because every single one of their games can run and look pretty on a low end PC, but look absolutely gorgeous on a high-end PC at the same time.

They are by far the best company when it comes to performance scaling and they're a pretty huge leader when it comes to graphics technology. They also track things like play time just to figure out where they should be putting their time and energy into serving the community, and that's why Left 4 Dead or Team Fortress 2 ended up having so much time and energy put into it. That's rare for a company, to make sure that you're customers are 100% satisfied rather than having their fans' begrudging acceptance of slightly-better-than-mediocrioty.

It's not free of problems but most can be fixed in about 2 minutes of looking up your problem on the Steam site. It's also a memory hog and you might feel the punch if your system is particularly low end.

The main thing is that people make a bigger deal out of Steam having problems, or being so great, than they really need to to. The simplest answer is that it's a great, not perfect, but great platform. It has awesome community tools and pretty much goes above and beyond any other content delivery system including console ones like XBLA and PSN. But still has its faults. And it's one of the only delivery systems on PC that I trust because of how well-designed it is. When you compare it to GameTap or Direct2Drive, there really is no disparity between which is the best.

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Necrotic Newbie

Necrotic

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They don't include the Steam installer on the disc, they just take you to their site to download it.

If you are concerned with privacy, you can play single-player games like HL2 in offline mode. You only need to log-in once to activate your game.

That still requires you to disconnect your 'net before starting the game though doesn't it?

Necrotic, you say the sweetest things.

Thanks, I think.

I ended up realizing that my post basically came out as a love letter to Valve, but it's not entirely inaccurate either.

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Drack Newbie

Drack

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I'm also a privacy guy, so I keep an eye on what Steam collects.

Valve periodically has surveys, once every few months I think. They are opt-out. When there is on a popup will appear on Steam asking you whether to send the info, and if you do it lets you preview it.

It's anonymous hardware info. Things like what brand CPU, CPU Ghz, graphics card chipset and memory amount, graphics driver version, ram, whether you have a mic, hard drive space, monitor resolution, monitor physical size.

Furthermore, Steam stores player performance stats on their servers. For instance, TF2 uses this to let you know when you got more kills in a single life than your previous best, or defended the capture point more times, or dealt or healed more damage.

Once I went through all the stuff Steam collects, I decided it was not a threat to privacy in the least. I do turn off things like Community when not playing a game, Steam starts when windows starts, and other features which integrate it a little TOO tightly imo, but I definitely think it's a worthwhile platform to use.

Also, after you buy a game, you can download it to all your computers, and if you reformat you can redownload again, unlimited times, free, and FAST. You just can't play online multiplayer on more than one computer at a time with the same steam account. No fees except the purchase prices of a game, and if it's single player you only need to be connected to the net ONCE.

Honestly, if that's too much DRM, I can't think of a platform you'd accept. It's by far the best implementation currently available on the PC.

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Sensai Newbie

Sensai

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I'm going to throw my vote to the 'yes' majority here.

I've had Steam since my mate gave me an account with Counter Strike, Half Life and I quickly bought Half Life 2 shortly thereafter. The only problems I've ever had with it were when Valve was attempting to do something massive in terms of upgrades (the first few TF2 updates come to mind, along with Steam chat).

Actually, that's not true. I've had one major problem outside of Valve's kindness, but that's because of my shitty OS, not Steam.

Either way, my vote goes 'yes.'

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Strike911 Newbie

Strike911

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Okay, look, in terms of DRM, the way Valve does things over Steam is really ideal. Download it all you want to as many comps as you want, you just have to log in. Easy. Some companies though on Steam limit installs, just like regular retail discs. But Valve stuff (aka TF2, Portal, HalfLife, LEFT 4 DEAD) don't have those limits.

Support this type of distribution system, because it's the best alternative we have... Had steam since counter-strike and I've happily purchased HalfLife2, TF2/OrangeBox, and very soon I'll buy Left 4 Dead. I've had no issues with it, except for the occasional mandatory update, but hey, it's fixing things so I'm cool. Privacy issues don't exist, and it only gathers information on your computer if you allow it to do a public test to compare your machine's stats/specs to other Steam users. It's all up to you.

Still, it's not a security issue. I trust Steam, and I've been using it since it first showed up.

Seriously, get on Left 4 Dead. I played the demo earlier and I fell in love. I had so much fun... it's like playing through a zombie movie with co-op plus hardcore awesome mixed in.

Get Steam. yes.

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Schwaltzvald Newbie

Schwaltzvald

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Steam pretty much beats Securom in both the DRM and, for the most part, customer friendliness in every possible facet of a DRM system... Take your pick...

Privacy is a non issue mainly because, unless you're installing it on a govt computer, the most you may ever give in a way of info is your system specs and how often you play a game, among other things more related to a particular game; TF2 comes to mind as it records ur player stats like HLStats...

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Zephyr Newbie

Zephyr

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I absolutely love steam, it's a great idea and I firmly believe that all PC games should run through steam. It organizes all updates, has a great in-game friend system, you don't need any physical copies for games that you need to worry about, easy to get mods and demos and such. Also, I love not needing to hunt down, download, and install every new patch that comes out, it does that for all of your games automatically. It's downloading system is streamlined and the ability to easily pause downloads is great.

In other words, big fat YES.

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Bahamut Newbie

Bahamut

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There is only 1 thing I find not to like about Steam - it kills being able to resell your PC game (like what people can do with console games). Other than that, I don't really see anything to take issue with. Google collects a lot of private information, so if you use that, then there's probably not so much to really complain about when it comes to Steam.

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DZComposer Newbie

DZComposer

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One problem with Steam is that it is one of those programs that is an unnecessary process running on your system that runs when you really want to run something else (Try playing a Steam game on a non-internet-connected PC and you'll see the proof).

I know that today's gaming PCs can handle it, but just because it can be done, should it? What if a bug occurs in Steam and crashes the game you are playing?

Plus, I have serious issues with DRM, for which Steam is a trojan horse (not in the malware sense) of sorts.

Privacy - Maybe I DON'T want it to collect even that miniscule data about me. Regardless of if steam itself collects it, the IP address of your internet gateway is easily loggable. Now I know a lot of things, including this forum software, do that, but forum software doesn't also collect the full specs of my PC. There should always be an opt-out of user statistics. Is this data being sold (not everyone honors their privacy policy)? I'm sure the hardware manufacturers would love to get their hands on this stuff.

Loophole around the first sale doctrine. Case law establishes that if you buy something, you have the right later sell it. This deosn't work on Steam.

The problem is when companies do this kind of shit, people put up with it.

DRM? I don't care. I MUST play this game! I MUST watch this movie made in 1982 on Blu-Ray high Def even though high def didn't exist when it was filmed!! A dongle for each music program and sample library? I don't care! I must have the latest shit NOW. Data mining? I don't care, I want the product.

All of this shit could have been stopped if people just said no.

All-in-all, I'm glad I got out of PC gaming. Having to upgrade your PC every 6 months gets expensive. DRM that tells you what programs you can or cannot run pisses me off. Having to connect to the internet to play a single player game is an annoyance.

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The Mutericator Newbie

The Mutericator

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One problem with Steam is that it is one of those programs that is an unnecessary process running on your system that runs when you really want to run something else (Try playing a Steam game on a non-internet-connected PC and you'll see the proof).

I know that today's gaming PCs can handle it, but just because it can be done, should it? What if a bug occurs in Steam and crashes the game you are playing?

Yes, it should. Also, "what ifs" are annoying and senseless. We shouldn't trust the sky, what if it falls tomorrow?

Plus, I have serious issues with DRM, for which Steam is a trojan horse (not in the malware sense) of sorts.

I think the others have already covered this, but here's what Steam takes: your Steam login info (duh), your IP address (used to confirm that your name is not logged in in two different locations), your systems specs (used to figure out a target for any upcoming games and upgrades - good), and how fragmented your Steam files are (used to warn you if they're too fragmented, so that you can defrag them before playing to get a smoother experience).

Privacy - Maybe I DON'T want it to collect even that miniscule data about me. Regardless of if steam itself collects it, the IP address of your internet gateway is easily loggable. Now I know a lot of things, including this forum software, do that, but forum software doesn't also collect the full specs of my PC. There should always be an opt-out of user statistics. Is this data being sold (not everyone honors their privacy policy)? I'm sure the hardware manufacturers would love to get their hands on this stuff.

As said before, you're freaking out about something useless. They explicitly use the info for figuring out how high-tech their users are and what "level" of computer power to target.

Loophole around the first sale doctrine. Case law establishes that if you buy something, you have the right later sell it. This deosn't work on Steam.

The problem is when companies do this kind of shit, people put up with it.

DRM? I don't care. I MUST play this game! I MUST watch this movie made in 1982 on Blu-Ray high Def even though high def didn't exist when it was filmed!! A dongle for each music program and sample library? I don't care! I must have the latest shit NOW. Data mining? I don't care, I want the product.

All of this shit could have been stopped if people just said no.

All-in-all, I'm glad I got out of PC gaming. Having to upgrade your PC every 6 months gets expensive. DRM that tells you what programs you can or cannot run pisses me off. Having to connect to the internet to play a single player game is an annoyance.

You're making something that's relatively low-end of the spectrum as far as DRM goes (a realistic solution that I would agree to, even) sound like some kind of draconic, EA-styled solution. This isn't Spore we're talking about here, and Valve never once tells you that you can't play a game (unless it's online multiplayer and it's updating, but that's for good reason).

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