Zelda Timeline

[Overflow]

Yeah, yeah, I know.

Actually, I want this thread to be more of a personal idea thread. What personal ideas about the timeline do you have? Not so much arguing which game goes where(You're free to do so, if you want), but mostly just interesting ideas about certain games.

I'll kick it off.

Just now, while brushing my teeth, I had a startling revelation(I actually choked a little on my toothpaste, too). I lean more towards the splitist theory, but if there is a linear timeline, one problem that I face is which is the continued timeline? The Link after he defeats Ganon, or where he returns as a child? (I'm obvioulsy talking about OoT, here, and I'm too lazy to describe the whole theories here. Look em up on Wikipedia if you don't know them.) Does he warn the king, thus preventing the war, is he stuck in a time loop, or is the future events the actual history?

Something else to consider is that certain things, like the windmill, are already affected in the future before Link affects them in the past. That implies that all of Link's actions in the past are already done in the future, essentially meaning that he isn't changing the past/future, but merely enacting it. If this is so and there is one timeline, then wouldn't that mean that Link gets sent back as a child, but the war happens anyways, and 7 years later adult link appears and defeats Ganon? but if that's so, then that would also imply that at that point in time, there would be 2 Links present, both adult. Now, this is reaching a little, but wouldn't that cause some sort of temporal paradox or something? Almost as though one link must be eliminated from the equation? This is where Majora's mask starts to make a lot more sense.

Maybe Link was forcibly removed from Hyrule due to the fact that there couldn't exist 2 of him at one time. So he was sent to the alternate dimension of Termina, ironically fitting in quite well with all the other "duplicates". Or maybe he went willingly, trying to avoid any sort of issues that migjt arise with 2 Links present? Now, I haven't finished the game, but isn't it true that at the end, Link doesn't actually return to Hyrule? Is he maybe stuck forever in Termina, or maybe only until the Adult Link in Hyrule is sent back in time, causing these events to forever repeat?

I have many personal theories on time that would enforce this view, but I mostly just wanted to put it out there. What do you think of this? Did you ever notice anything odd yourself in any of the games?

[Aninymouse]

yeah, yeah, i know.

then why?!

[F4T4L]

while you clearly have too much free time on your hands to process such crackpot theories, it's still nice to know you do not disregard personal hygiene. nice work.

srsly though, I haven't played all of the Zelda games in their entirety so I can't really contribute anything meaningful to this post. All of my crackpot theories involve assuming that Jesus Christ and Santa Claus are in fact the same person. and that Santa is the older fatter version of Jesus. both celebrate December 25th. both have unusually large beards and long hair. 12 Apostles. 9 reindeer + 3 wisemen = 12. Santa wears a red suit to show the blood that Jesus shed for all of our sins. Jesus was a carpenter, Santa has elves that work in a workshop. and most importantly, both likely existed at some point in time, but are greatly over-exaggerated concerning their existence as far as today goes. I guess we need to get in touch with Maury and find out if God is in fact the father of Santa, and I'll be sure to check next Christmas if the milk I left out for him is turned into wine.

In closing, sorry for the thread hijacking. It's just that I saw an ample opportunity to throw out my own crackpot theories. Resume as normal, I just needed to vent my personal ideas and thoughts. Everyone disregard my message, concern yourselves with the original topic.

[Aninymouse]

stop it f4t4l you're killing me

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Yeah, yeah, I know.

Actually, I want this thread to be more of a personal idea thread. What personal ideas about the timeline do you have? Not so much arguing which game goes where(You're free to do so, if you want), but mostly just interesting ideas about certain games.

I'll kick it off.

Just now, while brushing my teeth, I had a startling revelation(I actually choked a little on my toothpaste, too). I lean more towards the splitist theory, but if there is a linear timeline, one problem that I face is which is the continued timeline? The Link after he defeats Ganon, or where he returns as a child? (I'm obvioulsy talking about OoT, here, and I'm too lazy to describe the whole theories here. Look em up on Wikipedia if you don't know them.) Does he warn the king, thus preventing the war, is he stuck in a time loop, or is the future events the actual history?

Something else to consider is that certain things, like the windmill, are already affected in the future before Link affects them in the past. That implies that all of Link's actions in the past are already done in the future, essentially meaning that he isn't changing the past/future, but merely enacting it. If this is so and there is one timeline, then wouldn't that mean that Link gets sent back as a child, but the war happens anyways, and 7 years later adult link appears and defeats Ganon? but if that's so, then that would also imply that at that point in time, there would be 2 Links present, both adult. Now, this is reaching a little, but wouldn't that cause some sort of temporal paradox or something? Almost as though one link must be eliminated from the equation? This is where Majora's mask starts to make a lot more sense.

Maybe Link was forcibly removed from Hyrule due to the fact that there couldn't exist 2 of him at one time. So he was sent to the alternate dimension of Termina, ironically fitting in quite well with all the other "duplicates". Or maybe he went willingly, trying to avoid any sort of issues that migjt arise with 2 Links present? Now, I haven't finished the game, but isn't it true that at the end, Link doesn't actually return to Hyrule? Is he maybe stuck forever in Termina, or maybe only until the Adult Link in Hyrule is sent back in time, causing these events to forever repeat?

I have many personal theories on time that would enforce this view, but I mostly just wanted to put it out there. What do you think of this? Did you ever notice anything odd yourself in any of the games?

I don't know my Zelda plotlines as well as I used to, but let's see here...

The paradox implied by the ending of Ocarina of Time bothered me back when I first played it. The split timeline theory would make sense, if only because the Cel-shaded games don't make any sense at all as canon to a single timeline.

I believe you're right about Majora's Mask; it is never really indicated that Link returns to Hyrule.

I'll have to give it some thought, and I may have to go back and play through the ending of a couple of games while I'm at it.

[JCvgluvr]

No one ever said that 2 Links couldn't exist in the same timeline. It's not like Temporal Paradox's can be proven to exist, is it?

[glasfen]

Just now, while brushing my teeth, I had a startling revelation(I actually choked a little on my toothpaste, too).

Wah ha ha! That's too funny. And I know exactly what you mean. It's odd how the act of brushing one's teeth can lead to inspiration.

Spoilers, ho!

I was actually thinking about your first point the other day. I believe that Ganon being found out as a traitor (referenced in OoT by the dying guard in Hyrule Town - poor guy), is hastened by both Zelda and young Link as they are aware of his true nature. This then leads to Ganon's botched execution seen in Twilight Princess.

On the issue of the windmill, I don't believe there is any evidence to prove that it's possible. I think it's just an inconsistency which works for the sake of the game. That's a time-loop which could never happen.

From what I've read at Zeldapedia (yeah, I admit it), Ocarina splits into Twilight Princess and Wind Waker, depending on the state of Hyrule. From playing the game, I had assumed that the events of Ocarina were simply fixed by Link restoring the power of the sages, defeating Ganon, and everything being sent into the past again. I never saw any reason to believe that Majora's Mask was a separate Link. Actually, it's OoT young Link, still in some distant part of Hyrule, who is warped to Termina. It's been a while since I played that game, and I won't spoil the ending for you, but post your thoughts afterwards.

Thanks for the mental (and dental) stimulation.

[Strike911]

I used to love these Zelda timeline theories. I really like your concept. It is interesting. It kind of makes sense. And would really flesh out the story. I wish Nintendo would do something like that and explore these complex themes, but ... alas...

I'm having to face reality again... and everytime I do, it makes dealing with Zelda a little more easy.

Zelda is a game that uses the same things over and over again so Nintendo can make money. When I look at it like that, and just forget about the timelines I can enjoy the games that much more. Because until Nintendo addresses the timelines (which they probably never will... at least while Miyamoto is alive), Zelda will remain the biggest and best cluster-f ever. And I say that kind of endearingly and kind of not. I certainly love the Zelda series, but... you know...

Now if Nintendo actually addressed the official timeline once and for all and precisely picked out every little detail, that'd be GREAT. I would love more complexity, but right now... meh. The only way all of this could be handled is if Nintendo made one single game about time travel, where Link went and revisited EVERY time period (or near every time period) that all the other game's existed. Most of them at least. Tell me that wouldn't be awesome? It's be nostalgic, and great. And people would buy it too. For realsies.

It'd be complete fan service, no doubt, and it would also give everything a coherent storyline. That's it though. Ah, enough pipe dreams though.

Until I see something official, Zelda will remain as a mere money making device with the same characters in it, over, over, and over again.

I like you're theory though.

[glasfen]

Until I see something official, Zelda will remain as a mere money making device with the same characters in it, over, over, and over again.

Actually, if you look here, you can see that Miyamoto has proposed a specific chronology, as has Eiji Aonuma. The whole thing is speculation until the loose ends are tied up, but that's part of the mystique.

I think Spirit Tracks will add in a little modern flavor. Maybe that's the direction they're headed.

[friendlyHunter]

I have to say, your theory is way too crackpotty to be close to what Nintendo had in mind.

The only way all of this could be handled is if Nintendo made one single game about time travel, where Link went and revisited EVERY time period (or near every time period) that all the other game's existed.

They need to make a Zelda game with a big-ass tome in it, where you get to read all about Hyrule's past and what scholars through the ages had to say about Ganon and Link(s) and Zelda(s), and all the events that have happened. And the only way to beat the game is to read the tome in order to find out HOW to beat the game... like a puzzling and entertaining walkthrough right in the game.

It's a game about Link's struggle to understand who he is and what the heck is going on. If someone said you were the "hero of time" that keeps coming back century after century to defeat evil, and then all this wierd stuff starts happening that only confirms your mythical status, wouldn't you try to find out what's up?

[SLyGeN]

I'd say Zelda titles are about as related as Final Fantasy titles.

[glasfen]

They need to make a Zelda game with a big-ass tome in it, where you get to read all about Hyrule's past and what scholars through the ages had to say about Ganon and Link(s) and Zelda(s), and all the events that have happened. And the only way to beat the game is to read the tome in order to find out HOW to beat the game... like a puzzling and entertaining walkthrough right in the game.

It's a game about Link's struggle to understand who he is and what the heck is going on. If someone said you were the "hero of time" that keeps coming back century after century to defeat evil, and then all this wierd stuff starts happening that only confirms your mythical status, wouldn't you try to find out what's up?

You must be brushing your teeth. This is brilliant! Heck, it could be in a nearly "present" time period (maybe Victorian). The Legend of Zelda: The Mystery of Mudora

I am reminded of Eternal Darkness...

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I think it would be great to have something like that as a side-nugget which is unnecessary to the actual game -- sort of like how you cna learn the history of each planet you go to in Metroid Prime 3.

Also:

I like you're theory though.

AAAAAAARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH$#*^&*@&$*@#$*&@#^$*

[glasfen]

I think it would be great to have something like that as a side-nugget which is unnecessary to the actual game -- sort of like how you cna learn the history of each planet you go to in Metroid Prime 3.

Nice. That kind of interaction is lacking in the Zelda series.

Also:

Hilarious.

[The Damned]

I'd say Zelda titles are about as related as Final Fantasy titles.

QFE. They're (at best) loosely related. More like retakes of the same basic story. I don't know why people think there is a timeline. For that matter, I can't understand some of the "timeline" people are such psycho-fanboys about it. You ever sit back and watch the fights they get into over this shit? It makes Gamefaqs look mature in comparison.

[BardicKnowledge]

According to the relevant wiki:

Eiji Aonuma has stated that he will do his best to connect the games together and hopefully reveal the timeline someday' date=' and both he and Shigeru Miyamoto have publicly stated there is a master document containing the timeline.[/quote']

Maybe the idea of a game that gives us the info in some way isn't so far off...though there's no source listed for the above statement.

[Ferret]

Well I guess we'll find out someday.

Will we care?

Who knows?

[Overflow]

Lol, yeah, I sometimes think that it almost makes the most sense just to accept each game as a retelling of the story of a boy named Link, rescuing the pirncess Zelda and defeating Ganon. It makes sense that with each retelling, there'd be variations.

Ever hear of the Tetraforce theory? It's really interesting. It basically states that there is a 4th Triforce, but it's unclear what exactly it's purpose is. Watch this video:

Part 2:

(No, that's not me )

Also, something else that bugs me, is what is the state of the Triforce? Is it physical, or spiritual? At the end of LttP and in WW, LoZ and AoL it is very clear that they can be physical. But when Link/Zelda/Ganon posses a piece (The mark on their hand), obviously, they aren't carrying around the triforce in their bag, but it doesn't make much sense that the piece is actually IN their hand, either. I always thought that the real triforce is in a temple somewhere, and they just have access to it's power, and can also summon up a physical form when they want to. Thoughts?

[Jam Stunna]

Zelda doesn't work in a timeline at all. The way I've always seen it is that it's the same story told over and over again, and every time it's passed down it chages. It is a legend, after all.

[Strike911]

Also:

AAAAAAARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH$#*^&*@&$*@#$*&@#^$*

You know... I have this bad habit of wanting to edit every post I have... and occasionally I miss an apostrophe (and the last "e"). Hey I got the "Yea" right in the "yay or nay" thread, I get some kind of credit, right?

Also I hope you didn't injure you'reself writing that exclamation of frustration. Even in textual form, it read like it was filled with rage.

[cobaltstarfire]

You know... I have this bad habit of wanting to edit every post I have... and occasionally I miss an apostrophe (and the last "e"). Hey I got the "Yea" right in the "yay or nay" thread, I get some kind of credit, right?

Also I hope you didn't injure you'reself writing that exclamation of frustration. Even in textual form, it read like it was filled with rage.

I'm pretty sure that he's flipping out because you're supposed to be saying your in those contexts not you're.

Edit: still trying to figure out if you're doing that on purpose or not...

[Abadoss]

Personally, I prefer the idea that the Zelda games exist in a timeline because it adds a certain level of context of universe to the otherwise capsulated games. That said, I'm also in favor of the split timeline because, from a creative standpoint, it offers more universe to explore. It also offers the possibility that it could happen again, which intregues me.

I've been playing as many of the games as I can. So far, I've played through (recently):

-Ocarina of Time

-Majora's Mask

-A Link to the Past

-Twilight Princess

-Wind Waker

-Minish Cap

-Phantom Hourglass

-Oracles of Ages/Seasons

I've not yet been able to play through Four Swords or Four Swords Adventures, I've not yet had the patience to go through the first two NES games, and I'm not sure what to think of Link's Awakening yet. However, the split theory best explains what I've personally noticed in the games I have played. As far as I can tell, this is how I would place the games:

The main troubles I'm having are these:

Link's Awakening is most likely after the Oracle games, due mostly to the fact that Link begins the game sailing away from somewhere. It could potentially exist in the WW timeline, if we consider that Link spends a lot of time on boats during WW and PH. However, the events could not happen in between the two games, otherwise Tetra would be involved in the action, and I'm not quite done with PH, but I imagine that he continues on with her and whatever they end up doing in Spirit Tracks.

The Oracle games are kind of floating around as far as when they can be placed. I don't think they exist in the WW timeline because Hyrule is a definite place, as opposed a sunken kingdom with only a collection of islands that are inhabitable. I think the Oracle games are later in the timeline for the simple reason that it seems, by this point, that the Kingdom of Hyrule has made contact with other kingdoms and has potential allies besides the usual Zora and Goron kingdoms. Also, Ganon is dead by this point and is about to be resurrected (again) and, at the beginning of the games, the Triforce, as a whole (or, at least, all three parts), appears to be in the possession of Hyrule or, at least, Link. Oracle of Ages' past Holodrum could potentially be anytime somewhere in between OoT/MM and TP or it could be well after any of the events in the preceeding timeline. Since the game takes place outside of Hyrule, there's really no way to tell. It can't be before OoT because it would conflict with TP, which takes place one hundred years after OoT.

Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure, I haven't played because they require multiplayer. My friends are probably not the type to play through a game like that with me and wouldn't have the time anyway. However, having played Minish Cap and understanding the fusion of the four essences with the Picori sword, it becomes no stretch to see how they link up (no pun intended). All of these games preceed OoT, due to the elements that are missing from the incarnation and the elements that are set up (in at least Minish Cap). That said, I still don't know enough about FS and FSA to make comment on them, so placing them becomes an act of faith rather than anything solid.

Other than those three things, I'm pretty sure of the timeline.

Of small note, I think it interesting that the WW timeline is the only one that seems to escape the Triforce/Ganon cycle. Sure, there's tons of problems that Link has to go correct, but it's not the continual resurrection of Ganon, struggle for the Triforce mess, that constantly happens in the TP timeline. I also think that one of the main reasons that they keep revisiting the WW timeline in newer titles is because they artistically wore out the other timeline. If you look, the TP timeline is pretty heavily loaded compared to the WW timeline. I actaully hope they return to the TP timeline someday, but I understand why they may not for a while. I wonder if they will ever have any plans to reconsile the two timelines somehow. That would be a really cool game.

There's also the matter of the history preceeding Minish Cap. There's a legend in that game about a warrior, clad in green, who wielded the Picori blade and sealed the great evil away in the chest that Vaati unleashes. The depiction of the warrior doesn't show a green cap, so we can assume that is established in Minish Cap for the rest of the games, which is why it's first on the timeline. However, this begs the question: Is there a game that preceeds MC? I don't think one has been made yet, but it would be interesting to see if they decide to make one.

Granted, until we see a copy of the document Miyamoto has on his computer, there's no way we'll really ever know for sure. Just my thoughts, then.

[TheSnowStorm]

I get enough time line theories about the series since I go to a forums about Zelda but now I'm seeing this on OCR. You guys make me sad.

I did a time line of the main games of the series on this Zelda site. Sure I'm missing a few games due to the fact I was rushing to get to a class but whatever:

1987:

Legend of Zelda

The birth of a series. Uses top down view gameplay. Miyamoto Shigeru dreamed up this masterpiece after his childhood days of exploring caves and forests and ****.

1988:

Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Not a bad game but did turn some fans off. Instead of the top-down view praised by gamers, this game uses the side-scrolling deal. Gameplay changes would make gamers not play this one.

1991:

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

With new gaming technology comes a new game. It is 1991. The USSR is about to fall, crack cocaine is a major promblem in urban America, SEGA releases Sonic the Hedgehog (who too will fall victim in years to come) and Nintendo releases A.T.T.T.P. Consider one of the greatest of the series.

1993:

The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening

Links comes outta of your T.V. and into your hands (fangirls, this would be consider sexual assault if you got Link in your hands).

1998:

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

Consider to be the most overrated and worst of the series. People tend to ignore this game.

2000:

The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Consider to be THE best of the series. Does everything OOT does not including a full orchestra score on a Nitnendo 64 cart. A freakin' ORCHESTRA SCORE, A LIVE ONE ON A N64 CART!

2001:

The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages

The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons

ITS THE SAME GAME YOU SHIT HEADS!

2004:

The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

2006:

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

Did I said OOT was the worst of the series? That's a lie. THIS game is the worst of the series. So bad that Gamespot gave it a no score seeing how bad it was.

2007:

The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass

2009:

The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks.

Next time watch me do a Fire Emblem and Final Fantsy time line

[Cerrax]

I used to try and rationalize the massive holes in the Zelda story, until I realized Nintendo likes to make money and will gladly screw the crap out of all their games and plots to do so.

Let's face it, Zelda, Metroid, Starfox, and Mario MAKE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. None of the games are related and its a humongous waste of creative energy to try and get them to fit together.

[The Damned]

Ever hear of the Tetraforce theory? It's really interesting. It basically states that there is a 4th Triforce, but it's unclear what exactly it's purpose is. Watch this video:

Part 2:

(No, that's not me )

The guy in those vidoes... my god. This is exactly what I was talking about. He makes a comment about how official Nintendo timeline are comparable to weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I kid you not. Watch the first video to 2:40.

Then he says he listens to and believes the official story, but then ignores it because it doesn't fit with the idea of a fan-made imaginary item in a video game series.

When you have to make a youtube video explaining why your bullshit video game plot theories should be listened to, you have failed.