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Heroes of Newerth

Capa Langley

By Capa Langley,
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Tensei Newbie

Tensei

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Barbed Armor will remain a situational luxury item for most heroes as far as I'm concerned. The build-up is just terrible on Demented Shaman compared to items like Nome's, Cyclone Stick and Hellflower, and as a support you shouldn't be tanking damage anyway!

Found this pretty neat site: http://gaww.net/hon_stats.php?hero_dossier=TenseiSan

Especially

#10719622 | Scout | 5-1-14 | 814 | 93/8 | Win | +7 PSR

This must mean I suck at killstealing.

For added hilarity: http://gaww.net/hon_stats.php?hero_dossier=Harmonious

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zircon Newbie

zircon

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I'm aggregating quite a bit of pro-level HoN data (scrims, league matches, tournament matches) to help objectively determine hero tiers. Should be fun... I've analyzed 8 matches so far. I'm marking which heroes are banned, which heroes are picked, how many times said heroes have lost and how many times they've won. While I don't have enough to say anything conclusive overall, there are a few obvious facts:

The most picked heroes include Hellbringer, Plague Rider, Valkyrie, Madman, Pharaoh and Pestilence.

The most banned heroes include Jeraziah, Behemoth, Sand Wraith, Tempest and Demented Shaman.

Valkyrie is also the most powerful hero according to win:loss ratio. In the six games she was picked, she lost 0. No other hero I've looked at so far comes anywhere close.

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zircon Newbie

zircon

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Sounds cool. Also, you know, I've noticed something about HoN lately. It really, really is frustrating when you're with people that aren't as good as you. For some reason I've been playing better lately overall and winning most pub matches, yet when I play with OCR for a "pubstomp" I lose almost every time, but I tend to play with mixed skill OCR guys. What is very frustrating is that if you're good, you can play better than anyone on your team, or the opposing team, but it's like your own team is playing AGAINST you when they die constantly, and it just feels like completely wasted time.

I'm pretty sure others here have felt the same way. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm feeling less and less inclined to play with OCR unless it's inhouse, or our top players. Otherwise, it's just... too many losses.

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Dhsu Newbie

Dhsu

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Yeah, the game was over before it started. It was Panda, Keeper, Andro, Behemoth, and Defiler vs. Swiftblade, MQ, Scout, Armadon, and Plague Rider. While our team might not seem so bad at first (which is why I didn't repick), well...I'll just leave it up to you to count how many stuns each team has (hint: the number we had was less than 1).

And that's why AR should always be no stats.

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Tensei Newbie

Tensei

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I share zircon's sentiment about this, the games in Outpicked were the first in a long time where I could say that a lot of the participants were just plain better at the game than me, which is something I haven't experienced in quite a while. It usually feels to me that a loss is primarily caused by my team, which ends up being frustrating.

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Vilecat Newbie

Vilecat

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Yeah I know how it is. I'm not as good as many of you but I try my best not to feed the other team. Even in pugs the same can happen; if one or two in your team just aren't giving a damn about teamwork the chances of your faces getting wtfpwnt increase almost exponentially.

I'm still busy with school, I think I'll wait for the holiday season to play again.

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Dr. Tran! Newbie

Dr. Tran!

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IMO, a lot of people who play this would absolutely love LoL. If you get bored of this, I suggest giving League of Legends a try. Both Clef and myself haven't really gone back to HoN after playing. It's just far more enjoyable, and the community, for the most part, isn't a huge shitfest. yet.

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Clefairy Newbie

Clefairy

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IMO, a lot of people who play this would absolutely love LoL. If you get bored of this, I suggest giving League of Legends a try. Both Clef and myself haven't really gone back to HoN after playing. It's just far more enjoyable, and the community, for the most part, isn't a huge shitfest. yet.

Well, I might as well say my piece too. :P

Basically, there are some important decisions in LoL that make it a fundamentally different experience, despite being grounded in the same genre. The most obvious is the deliberate omission of denying, but there are others, such as global xp for towers as well as gold.

Ultimately I feel that it's a shallower game than HoN, but that doesn't bother me a whit. I'm really not out to express my dominance over others by exhibiting superior skill in a largely arbitrary system of game mechanics; I just want to kick back and play some video games with people whose company I enjoy. In my experience, the atmosphere that LoL provides is simply more conducive to that end.

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bladiator Newbie

bladiator

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I have to follow in what these guys are saying. The most enjoyable game I had in HoN was a couple days ago where a couple of the guys on my team started chattering over the mic. At first I was worried that it was just going to end up being a couple guys trying to tell us all how we were noob MF'ers and where we needed to go and play. Thankfully though they were just keeping a steady stream of hilarity going back and forth, continually yelling out, "Come friend! Come help me friend!" and "Our friends are dying! Come friend!" Good times. I didn't even care that I was the friend that was dying, it was still fantastic.

I guess that my point is that the atmosphere was one of having fun and not one of winning at all costs and denying the crap out of the other team. I'm not made for high level competition I guess. I enjoy making mistakes and not getting flamed for it. Laughing about a cheap death. Not hating the game that I play for fun.

There you have it. /emo

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BardicKnowledge Newbie

BardicKnowledge

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I share zircon's sentiment about this, the games in Outpicked were the first in a long time where I could say that a lot of the participants were just plain better at the game than me, which is something I haven't experienced in quite a while. It usually feels to me that a loss is primarily caused by my team, which ends up being frustrating.

Yeah, Outpicked game 1 was the first game I wasn't upset about the loss in a very long time -- Drasha's players were just flat out superior to ours. Similarly, while I did my job as Glacius in game 3 (ult 2-3 before dying, buy wards a lot), most of the players were still better than us, which was fun.

The victories and losses are much better when you're not thinking "man, my friends let me down" <--- not a great attitude I realize, but it definitely goes through my head.

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relyanCe Newbie

relyanCe

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I have to follow in what these guys are saying. The most enjoyable game I had in HoN was a couple days ago where a couple of the guys on my team started chattering over the mic. At first I was worried that it was just going to end up being a couple guys trying to tell us all how we were noob MF'ers and where we needed to go and play. Thankfully though they were just keeping a steady stream of hilarity going back and forth, continually yelling out, "Come friend! Come help me friend!" and "Our friends are dying! Come friend!" Good times. I didn't even care that I was the friend that was dying, it was still fantastic.

I guess that my point is that the atmosphere was one of having fun and not one of winning at all costs and denying the crap out of the other team. I'm not made for high level competition I guess. I enjoy making mistakes and not getting flamed for it. Laughing about a cheap death. Not hating the game that I play for fun.

There you have it. /emo

I've had a similar experience and it was definitely the best HoN game ever, even though we lost it in a 60+ minute double-supercreeps turtlefest.

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Tensei Newbie

Tensei

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Tried LoL, it's pretty terrible. Your 'account' levels up and becomes progressively better so someone who plays a lot and has a high level account has an inherently better chance of winning than someone who's just starting out despite the skill difference. Graphics and the style is plain terrible, I'll take the 'realistic' HoN graphics over faux-anime cellshading any day.

Also, no denying? Sure, let's make the laning phase even more boring!

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eternal Zero Newbie

eternal Zero

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Yeah...so Dragon Age and now Modern Warfare 2 have kept (and will continue for a little) me off of HoN. If you can manage to get my attention (try AIM or over live) I'll play with you guys though.

As for the whole "my friends let me down" bit I say that all the time. I know for fact what I'm getting myself into when I play with you guys but that's just the nature of the game. I don't blame any of you for it. Most of you are as good as you'll get and probably won't see vast improvement. I don't hold that against you and will still play as often as you ask.

As for LoL I really dislike it. I mean I'm not saying this because I'm good at DotA/HoN but I really enjoy the mechanics that came about. I hate any kind of game that waters things down to cater to "casual" play. Tripping in Brawl? Giving a speed boost proportional to your position in a racing game? If gamers want to make it casual they will play it as such. If they want to make it competitive they will do that too. Also most inherent systems of "I've played longer therefore I will win" are terrible. Ohwait! I forgot. "I paid money to get everything therefore I will win". I know these aren't hard and fast rules and there will always be exceptions when it comes to each game but can you honestly tell me that if I had access to every hero where you only had access to one or two that I wouldn't win more often? And yes include our relative skill levels. (By you I mean the person reading this not anyone in particular.) It's not my cup of tea.

Edit:

man u gonna do a bro like that? tsk, unreal, man

also zirc I see your madman play and up you my sig

lol I should sift through my replays to post some of mine. :3

If you thought my recent ones with Madman/Swiftblade/Blood Hunter are sick you should have seen my Defiler/Torturer/Scout/Arachna in previous patches before nerfs were applied.

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Battousai Newbie

Battousai

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I enjoy playing with you guys (even you, Luke) and while my play varies from really good to really awful (sorry Hemo) I still look forward to the inhouses and failtopubstomps. If the zombies eat you in L4D do you rage at your teammates? Well I have never played it so that might be a bad comparison but yeah. Even when everyone on my team plays like crap or where everyone but me is playing well and we lose cause I did bad, I learn something new and improve from the situation.

If you guys were to stop playing I don't know what I'd play... probably just sit back and level up pokemon all day :/

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Clefairy Newbie

Clefairy

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Tried LoL, it's pretty terrible.

See, this is exactly what I was talking about.

The account thing, meh. Some people like a little more RPG in their games, others don't. On top of that, players at max level should never be in the same game as someone just starting out, because unlike HoN, LoL has a fully functional matchmaking system. And a seperate lobby for "practice" games where things tend to be taken less seriously.

Just because something doesn't suit your tastes, that doesn't make it 'terrible'.

If nothing else, I prefer it over HoN because you can't farm up a disgustingly powerful carry who can easily take on the entire other team and win after a certain point. No matter what you pick, you rely on your team to support you or die. Period.

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Vilecat Newbie

Vilecat

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The friend who sent me my HoN beta invite talked to me about LoL 2-3 weeks ago.

First big con: it's PC-only. Screenshots: everything is distractingly colorful, some elements lack details a lot/looks unfinished and the interface slightly makes me "erf". I read a bit about the item and gaming systems and such, and end up very saddened at the limitations and lack of developpement. The characters' background is laughable at best for the majority and a lot look like they've been crafted out of Play-Doh, which makes them even less scary. The 2d art looked very nice for more of the heroes but still... Why do I keep thinking about Gunbound when I look at those? Gotta admit Gunbound was enjoyable while I played it, but still.

Only (possible) pros: 5 skills instead of 4.

If you're looking at a new DotA, I believe HoN > LoL. LoL just doesn't seem to offer the challenge and complexity game-wise versus HoN. They both have flaws but IMO HoN has done a great job ironing most of 'em out.

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