Heroes of Newerth

[relyanCe]

just got into the beta today. relyanCe of course.

add me gais!

I'mma rape you donut.

[Capa Langley]

League of Legends = really noob-friendly but a slightly different approach of the genre. It can be great but it's again it's not so different from DotA/HoN.

Also, the whole Donut thing is a running injoke. I don't really see anyone sucking up to him seriously. The joke started back in our first game with him and "someone" kept being baby.

For those who have yet to understand how to trade.

You both select your heroes but DO NOT click ready. One of you clicks the little circular tab next to your teammate's icon. Then said teammate clicks on YOUR icon to finish the trade.

[zircon]

Wow, I friggin love Soulstealer. I was in a pub where my team was sorely behind (levels 6-8 while the enemy team was 10-12), but I was higher level than anyone, including the enemy team. Before long I turned the game around and maxed out on levels before some people on my team were even 20. SS's ulti is just domination, and with Jereziah on the team as support, he's pretty much GG. Also helped that I had Steamboots and Behemoth's Heart, bringing me to a healthy 3000 HP

[MaxFrost]

damn, I need to get in on this action...I think I'm MaxFrost on HoN, haven't booted it up in a while. I'll probably be playing a bit tomorrow.

[eternal Zero]

Clef, maybe you just naturally don't have much experience with this style. I've been playing about as long as you, maybe a few days longer, but I seem to be doing well. IMO, the game is *quite* noob-friendly compared to virtually any other competitive game I've tried: Street Fighter HDR or IV, TF2, Blazblue, StarCraft, etc...

I personally feel otherwise. This is much harder to get into due to the team aspect. It's really not the same game at the level that some people play it at. It's not the same for me and like Maelk (one of my fav pros). It's probably not the same for me and you. The nice part about DotA/HoN is that while it is a competitive game it scales with you for the most part but the learning curve can be harsh.

Also about comments like "We could have won with _____ playing a carry." I think they're fine, personally, because I make that statement about myself all the time, haha.

Hey Donut, I know stats are pretty useless in terms of assessing skill, but if your KDR is that high then why aren't your PSR up there, too? I only ask because my KDR was also very high before the implementation of PSR (like 5:1) but that's cause I was clearly playing people inferior to me. Now with my hovering around 2k PSR (though I'm really low due to a losing streak, low 1900s) games are not a sure thing anymore with my friends and it's really rewarding to see who deserves to be in the top 100 players right now. Is it cause you mostly play with these guys? Cause I mean I totally get the only having time for a few games a day and wanting to play with friends vs pubs regardless of what level it's at.

[Hemophiliac]

I just got hooked up with a beta key for this, gonna be checking it out...am a huge fan of dota and played in a couple leagues for that. i have high expectations for this game.

[eternal Zero]

I just got hooked up with a beta key for this, gonna be checking it out...am a huge fan of dota and played in a couple leagues for that. i have high expectations for this game.

The only things you'll be disappointed with are the lack of all of the heroes as well as some minor differences from DotA. Otherwise this has stopped me from being able to stand playing DotA just because of how clearly superior HoN is.

[Hemophiliac]

both are points that will make no difference to me

my gn is Hemophiliac, add me to the list please.

[BardicKnowledge]

Giving upgraded boots to my bear last 5v5 house game was sick -- extra speed and extra entangle procs FTW. Mock of Brilliance (radiance, dota players) was icing on the cake. I didn't do a ton of damage, but my bear raped.

Considering that the bear basically can't die, I highly preferred making him a bigger threat than me (who could hang in the back, relatively safe).

[Tensei]

As a Soulstealer you really want to rush either portal key or assassin's shroud (If you're playing a bit more of a low-level pub game where they probably won't ward) right after boots, because due to the nature of your ult it does more damage the closer you are to the enemy, so positioning is very important there. Shrunken head would probably be the next logical step.

Of course he's a decent carry as well due to his insanely high base dps with maxed out soulsteal, so getting shieldbreaker and maybe wingbow after shrunken head is great too.

Edit: NEW UPDATE

Looks like they've added a new Hellbourne strength hero, Maliken, as well as a bunch of new items (about 5 I think). The Logger's Hatchet looks interesting as it boosts your melee damage against non-heroes by 32% and allows you to cut down trees and only costs 225 gold.

Edit: Played with Maliken a bit, here are my thoughts.

This guy ROCKS. His nuke hits multiple targets, slows, and can be used as a blink (by pressing Q again as soon as the projectile is in flight). He has toggle-able lifedrain that reduces his damage but heals for a set amount (Each hit heals 40 on level 4), which is awesome for laning as he rarely needs to visit the fountain. He can also boost his damage at the cost of taking damage himself, every time he hits.

He has a passive ability that increases his chance to crit based on how low his HP is (0.75% to crit for every 1% of health you're missing, meaning that if you keep him around 60% health, he'll have a very healthy 30% crit chance).

Finally, his ult..just wow. 2 seconds of AoE disable at level 16, coupled with his blink ability. Oh and did I mention he gets a massive boost to attack speed and his attack becomes ranged with splash damage for 30 seconds? All that for a measly 100 mana and on a 90 second cooldown.

I believe he is meant to play as a tank-like STR carry, but his slowing nuke/blink makes him suitable for early ganking as well, while his ult easily allows him to push a lane. I didn't even farm up any damage items (went for steamboots, insanitarius, behemoth's heart and shrunken head) and he had 3.5k hp and about 300 auto-attack damage on level 20, while having insanitarius and the self-damaging DPS booster skill on all the time without losing HP.

[BardicKnowledge]

One of the new items really stands out IMO: Logger's Hatchet. It's extra damage to creeps, and allows almost any melee hero to be viable for a few levels in the jungle. An absolute must for Legionnaire and Zephyr.

The other item series that seems interesting is Mana/Power Battery if you're up against spellcasters a lot, or play a char that specializes in fighting them (Magebane).

IMO Iron Shield doesn't compare to Helm as a Shield upgrade -- +6 regen is huge. If anyone has a good reason to get it, lemme know.

[zircon]

Updated Tiers (again, all this is just in my personal opinion, but it would be fun to maintain this as a group)

Definitions:

God Tier - Clearly overpowered, weaknesses are too few compared to strengths, overwhelming in more situations than not.

S - Strengths outweigh weaknesses, numerous big advantages. You want these guys on your team.

A - Very good hero all-around. Balanced strengths and weaknesses.

B - Solid hero, but does not have a truly strong advantage.

C - Can be powerful if used properly, but outshined by the upper tiers. Not enough useful skills, too situational.

Garbage - No or very little reason to use this hero, needs buffs. Too weak in too many situations.

God Tier - Magmus, Jereziah, Tempest

S - Legionnaire, Madman, Behemoth, Swiftblade, Moon Queen, Defiler, Thunderbringer, Soulstealer, Demented Shaman, Arachna

A - Pollywog Priest, Andromeda, Succubus, Devourer, Torturer, Electrician, Blood Hunter, Nymphora, Pyromancer

B - Glacius, Blacksmith, Slither, Night Hound, Predator, Valkyrie, Hellbringer

C - Armadon, Accursed, The Dark Lady, Kraken, Keeper of the Forest, Scout

Garbage - Chronos, Voodoo Jester, Pharaoh, Puppet Master

Not placed yet: Pestilence, War Beast, Wildsoul, Ophelia, Zephyr, Maliken, Wretched Hag, Hammerstorm

[eternal Zero]

I don't like tiers but we'll agree to disagree because I think you're wrong, haha.

[Dhsu]

I think he actually wants people to argue with him though.

[eternal Zero]

Oh I know. I'm just saying I don't do tiers. 'Specially not for this game.

[Tensei]

Voodoo Jester still in the garbage tier makes me sad.

[eternal Zero]

Well okay I'll just invalidate this tier.

Garbage - Chronos, Voodoo Jester, Pharaoh, Puppet Master

Chronos: A hard carry. Is more useful with the Aghanim's fix but still weak. Belongs in C tier.

Voodoo Jester: Solid support ganker. Maledict makes many kills happen that would be impossible otherwise. Belongs in C Tier.

Pharoah: One of the best gankers and anti-initiators in the game. His equivalent, Clockwerk Goblin, is seen in 8/10 pro DotA games. Definitely your S or A tier. He's that good.

Puppet Master: This game's current variant of Silencer. Strong but requires some buildup and won't win games by himself. Belongs in B tier.

Who does belong in Garbage Tier? Scout. Potentially Night Hound due to Backstab being physical damage thus making him near useless though the fix on the cast point of his smog did help him.

Also some suggestions but I'm not wanting to type more descriptions:

Pestilence: B

War Beast: B

Wildsoul: C

Ophelia: A

Zephyr: B

Maliken: Haven't played him so don't know.

Wretched Hag: B

Hammerstorm: A

[eternal Zero]

Also hit me up on AIM when you guys are playing. Like I said I'm not an IRC person.

[Hawkwing]

I just tried playing, and even in noob only games, people aren't very friendly or helpful. I haven't played DotA in a couple years. I haven't really played any games in a couple years. And everyone with a mic was just yelling at me. Holy shit.

REAL BIG turn off to the game.

EDIT: It was a game that said NOOBS WELCOME on it too.

[BardicKnowledge]

I think Wildsoul is a solid B tier -- at start the bear serves as a free ward to prevent early ganks, and assuming you don't need to heal (which you shouldn't) he is also a free monkey at level 7. Putting boots on the bear him faster than all nonblinkers.

Oh, and because of bear, Wildsoul can start pushing towers at level 4-5 instead of 6-7. I often push 2 towers very early in my lane, which feels great (and gets you enough cash to finish all of your early game stuff).

Edit: Now that Zephyr's ultimate actually does what it says it does, he should be a solid char. Haven't played him enough to really say yet though.

[Capa Langley]

I just tried playing, and even in noob only games, people aren't very friendly or helpful. I haven't played DotA in a couple years. I haven't really played any games in a couple years. And everyone with a mic was just yelling at me. Holy shit.

REAL BIG turn off to the game.

EDIT: It was a game that said NOOBS WELCOME on it too.

Yeah... don't ever go into a pub unless you know what you're getting yourself into and can take it. The whole "noobs only" is only a lure to get wins and increase their PSR. It's much more fun (sometimes frustrated) to play inhouse with us. That much I can guarantee.

[Tensei]

I just tried playing, and even in noob only games, people aren't very friendly or helpful. I haven't played DotA in a couple years. I haven't really played any games in a couple years. And everyone with a mic was just yelling at me. Holy shit.

REAL BIG turn off to the game.

EDIT: It was a game that said NOOBS WELCOME on it too.

Protip: Don't join pub games until you at least somewhat understand the game. If you say you're new/rusty in one of our inhouse games nobody will yell at you and will most likely try to help you as much as possible.

The DotA pub community has, as I understand it, always been that shitty.

[eternal Zero]

I think Wildsoul is a solid B tier -- at start the bear serves as a free ward to prevent early ganks, and assuming you don't need to heal (which you shouldn't) he is also a free monkey at level 7. Putting boots on the bear him faster than all nonblinkers.

Oh, and because of bear, Wildsoul can start pushing towers at level 4-5 instead of 6-7. I often push 2 towers very early in my lane, which feels great (and gets you enough cash to finish all of your early game stuff).

Edit: Now that Zephyr's ultimate actually does what it says it does, he should be a solid char. Haven't played him enough to really say yet though.

So for Wildsoul. I love him just like you. He's so cool. Also I have strong micro so I do some crazy things. It's just that he wants to push just like you said and pushing teams generally lose because you need to end the game before 30 mins but you leave yourself far into enemy territory early with relatively minor gold advantage for killing towers.

As for Zephyr. I have always liked him because I love to rice and play carries. Problem is that his best spell (his shield) loses completely to Diffusal. Though I do agree that with his ult actually working as intended that's a huge buff for him.

So I just had a game with Arek (cause the rest of you guys are poop and are done for now. It was pretty good. Went like 30-4 and was lvl 22 when the 9 other players were lvl 11 as Blood Hunter. But that's not the important part. Arek has the basics down (which I'm sure most of you do) and he asked a pretty important question (I go by Miki btw):

5:21:58 PM) Arek: what do you think i should work on considering what you saw

(5:22:06 PM) Miki: knowing when to cast your ult so you don't waste it

(5:22:16 PM) Miki: understanding builds more (this just requires studying)

(5:22:27 PM) Arek: i only know how to play int : /

(5:22:31 PM) Miki: also knowing when to let a kill go when you aren't the primary carry anymore

(5:22:47 PM) Miki: like you kept chasing some dudes when it was an impossibility for them to escape me

(5:22:57 PM) Miki: where if you just started on the next one and got him low. i'd get him too

(5:22:59 PM) Miki: y'know?

(5:23:03 PM) Arek: yea

(5:23:03 PM) Miki: it's like

(5:23:08 PM) Miki: you do it well once i tell you

(5:23:23 PM) Miki: you have to get to the point of familiarity where i don't have to say a word

Practice practice practice. Also don't be afraid to play people much better than you. That's how I learned too.

[zircon]

I don't understand why Pharaoh is good. Why is he an anti-initiator? The zombies? The zombies can be countered with Enhanced Marchers, a cheap item. His nuke is weak overall. His AOE stun thing has a very small range. ALL of his abilities are actives meaning he is mana-intensive. He can trap people, but then what is he gonna do? Other characters can stun/trap and do more damage (ie. Devourer.) Furthermore his Ulti is like a regular ability for Magmus or even Kraken. I dunno. He just seems.. not very useful since you wouldn't have the mana to use all his stuff constantly early on, yet when you do get the mana later, since he has no armor or damage buffs, dispels, heals or other support abilities, he's left with little offense or tanking.

So if you have two STR heroes on your team, why pick Pharaoh when you could have..

* Magmus (better stuns, more damage)

* Behemoth (way better stuns, traps)

* Jereziah (better support)

* Accursed (better tank)

* Pebbles (better tank, better aoe stun)

etc?

[Tensei]

The zombies can be countered with Enhanced Marchers, a cheap item.

Not anymore.

His nuke is very useful due to the infinite range as you can use it to scout and help with runewhoring.

Also I haven't played him, but isn't his ult something like a blink? I think his main role is to be a midgame ganker as he can pretty easily roam/runewhore and disable people. Not really comparable to tanky or support heroes IMO, though I will conceed that Magmus seems like more or less the same hero, except more powerful.