Heroes vs. Villains (OC ReMix vs. The Bad Dudes) - History

[ktriton]

Hahahaha. The best.

[ella guro]

I think the argument is not as much about overlapping themes, but that this project will receive a lot more attention than the BadAss project because of the people on it, and steal a lot of thunder away from it. I also don't know if you can argue that these projects are completely different, half of this project is the same thing as the other project.

I'm really glad that this is getting so many good people on it, and I don't object at all to hearing more quality mixes. It just feels like there could have been some effort made to combine the two projects, maybe have the bad dudes do the heroes and have the people on the BadAss project do the villains. Or at least acknowledge the other project's existence in some way. I'm not saying this is how any of you feel at all, but the implication to some people is it's a snub from higher profile people to another part of the community. It's important to think about how to do things tactfully so that it doesn't come across this way.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, I don't like unnecessary drama more than anyone else. And I'm looking forward to this project. I think it's just important that the people who object have their say before they're completely dismissed.

[Geneson]

How about letting BadAss release first so it can get all the praise and recognition it deserves, then release this project later on as a sequel of sorts? problem solved?

[ktriton]

How about letting BadAss release first so it can get all the praise and recognition it deserves, then release this project later on as a sequel of sorts? problem solved?

You beat me to it. So what's the ETA on the Badass release? We're planning to release at the end of the year.

[HitoriJaNai]

Well, being a huge Kingdom Hearts fan and knowing that it needs some love, I'd like to claim the Sora track, please. ;

Unless I missed something important...

EDIT: Aw, crap, just saw the part about being an OCR regular... is that officially how its going to work or what?

[ella guro]

You beat me to it. So what's the ETA on the Badass release? We're planning to release at the end of the year.

That might be a good call for BadAss to try to get it out before this one does. I guess it depends on how things go. Maybe there could even be some sort of concurrent release of both? Just a thought.

Well, anyway I wanted to say that I'm 100% looking forward to this project. I just wanted to make sure that people's opinions I've heard are known publicly instead of in private so people feel they've had their say and there's not an us vs. them complex carrying on under the surface. We don't need any lingering bad feelings. The only important thing is the music, after all!

[Dhsu]

Wasn't The Bad Dudes doing the villains by popular request in the first place? Why didn't anyone complain back then?

[Monobrow]

I'm pretty sure the first post implied otherwise. Besides, you hear BAD DUDES and you think "villains".

I thought it was a good idea dhsu, you had it like on page 5 or something? Anyway it would have solved quite a bit IMO if things had leaned that way.

Not everyone in this community was aware of The Joker's project, but that doesn't mean that it's not relevant to the issue of being the sucker in all of this. No matter how you look at it, it will divide the community and his project will most likely take the flack from it.

The difference between Walan and Kyle's Super Dodgeball Project and your dude's project was that it was not an official OCR release when it came out. The Around the World Project is still alive and kicking, and will get that spotlight when the time comes, as it will be an official OCR Album. Your EP was not an official album.

This project ,on the other hand, is. If both are released, people will most likely look at them and say "didn't OCR already do this?"

Now you will have two different sets of artists doing the same songs and competing with each other. You might as well call this project Bad Dudes vs. Bad Ass because that's what it is going to turn into.

The principle of it is what I have a problem with. The little guy is going to have to bow down and get very little support, when he could have had all the help in the world from a bunch of "vets"... This will undoubtedly affect how this project is perceived from now on, given the similarity.

Given the struggle that projects in general have been having around here, the lockdown and the evaluations, and the air of "tiredness" projects have been getting, it wouldn't surprise me if this could be a nail in the coffin of the other project, which would make me very sad, because I hate to see people's hard work wasted, especially something someone took upon their shoulders to revive and try to get started again.

The thunder was stolen, the other project will suffer, that's just the state of things right now. Regardless of intent, you guys know about it now don't you? So is anyone willing to try to work in a compromise?

[Bahamut]

Ugh, I had a long post typed up but Apple in its infinite wisdom decided for iTunes to automatically close Firefox without asking in a software update. What a terrible player, the one downside of the iPod...I just wanted to sleep at midnight .

You make a valid point, but I also have to disagree with you. What about my album? The Bad Dudes already covered Super Dodge Ball, does that mean the music from SDB is now off-limits for remixing now and forever? Of course not. Mustin had the idea for that album independently of mine, even though the "ethnic feel" idea is the same for both albums. Like then, I highly doubt he saw the project thread for Badass and went "OH YEAH? WE'LL SHOW THEM!" and starting working on a bad guy album. I can't speak for The Joker and pu_freak, but I believe that they're not negatively concerned at all with the idea of another album with roughly the same idea as theirs. I don't see it as a middle finger as much as I do a thumbs up.

The two situations have big differences, which make all of the difference. That SDB album was not intended to be posted on OCR, although it did have a bit of mention in writeups. These both are. What this means is that potential resources, in this case people who could've helped them, is rendered split. There was also not a theme difference with the SDB projects as far as I'm aware. Here you have a project just starting that contains the other as a complete subset of it, aimed at release on the same site - you don't see the problem here?

I do think that this could've possibly been averted somewhat if they made themselves more visible, which is their fault, but also the thread was made too hastily - the moratorium was enacted a day or two beforehand, people were bothering us to allow them to post their project threads or when the moratorium would be lifted, or about the project proposal/approval process, etc., and then this thread is posted, blindsiding the staff completely. The flurry of discussion that followed was basically on what to do, which ended up leading to djp's post on the first page. By the time I had an inkling of a realization that the themes were similar, it was too late to bring it up for discussion on what to do site side.

So what I ask is to try to minimize the overlap unless something is worked out to try to get the tracks done in different styles where it does occur, because it is an awkward situation, and one that might've never happened had the proposal process and everything been fleshed out before this thread was posted.

[KyleJCrb]

One solution: Bring the BadAss tracks over here. Are they all by OCReMix "regulars"? No, but who cares? That stipulation is honestly a bit ridiculous anyway: Almost all of the remixers on BadAss are posted, and the ones that aren't are regular contributors to the community, and have had work previously released on other OCReMix albums. Granted, it would be entirely up to Mustin and Joker if they wanted to discuss it, but that is a potential solution. Everyone gets their work released, resources aren't split, and we get one hugely amazing album.

[po!]

If people have such a problem with 2 similar projects on OCR, then maybe we should remove Heroes vs Villains as on official OCR project?

Personally, I would be against any kind of merging between the 2 projects. Our concept for this project came about through a bit of discussion which was totally independent of BadAss (in fact I only learned of BadAss today). We have our own vision of what we want to create.. so why not let BadAss be BadAss and let Bad Dudes be Bad Dudes.. which is how it was always intended to be.

[José the Bronx Rican]

Two different projects, two different visions, two different release dates. I'm not seeing any problem here, except of course for what I call the "video game music mainstream" mentality that has all of us begging each other to do the same damn tunes all the time every time. That's why the overlap discussion in the first place. God willing, if I get a track done for BadAss, it'll cover a tune no one cares about ("Phantom" from TFIV), so no worries there. We'll get more carping about the overlap from 50 million FF/Chrono OC ReMixes before this.

[K.B.]

Since it hasn't been said yet...

[Kirby] Kirby / King DeDeDe | talc / ???

...lol.

(change the 't' to a 'h'... he's not a powder)

And one of you Dudes please pick up Hector. Because that shit is boss. '20's boss. And best on the ost, I say. Should be criminal that only one Grim mix is on this site (props, Mazedude... and props djp for picking up Manny here).

Oh and since I haven't posted here yet, yeah, this is a fucking amazing idea. I'll be tracking this one.

And I'd add some Persona biz to that there OP list, but I doubt it'd get traction. If I'm wrong, you know how to reach me.

Also, drama lol. If you please, stfu with what's not on-topic. It detracts from this effort. This competition bullshit is just that.

[anosou]

There's hardly any "overlap", if it is it doesn't matter. The concept will be different, the approach taken and music resulting in it will probably be different. I think this is a rather dumb discussion. Get on with the show please

(and, no offense, I think this project will end up sounding much better than BadAss so I wouldn't want this to be non-OCR or for some tracks to be pulled)

[Pavos]

I don't think a merger is the answer here. BadAss is giving "new" mixers a chance to get full attention and if they were combined with the Bad Dudes I think they would get overshadowed.

There is, of course, a risk that this would happen if the album would be released seperatly aswell.

[Mustin]

Since it hasn't been said yet...

...lol.

(change the 't' to a 'h'... he's not a powder)

hahaha oops

[bladiator]

ALRIGHT MAGGOTS! I'M TAKING ON HALC POWDER AND THE DDD THEME!

I'll get in touch with the incredible halc later.

[ktriton]

I've contacted The Joker who is the project lead for Badass. Thanks to all who have raised awareness of the issue. I'll work with him to find a solution that benefits all.

That said, we're still waiting on:

Dale North

Dhsu

The Guy (formerly mellogear)

Kaijin

Also where are these remixers at?

A_Rival (maybe please?)

priZm

Scott Peeples (we can dream?)

goat

kLuTz

Star Salzman

Gecko Yamori

Vigilante

The Wingless

GrayLightning

Harmony

There are two outstanding challenges from OCR and one outstanding challenge from me. Let's get moving!

[Joshua Morse]

If people have such a problem with 2 similar projects on OCR, then maybe we should remove Heroes vs Villains as on official OCR project?

Personally, I would be against any kind of merging between the 2 projects. Our concept for this project came about through a bit of discussion which was totally independent of BadAss (in fact I only learned of BadAss today). We have our own vision of what we want to create.. so why not let BadAss be BadAss and let Bad Dudes be Bad Dudes.. which is how it was always intended to be.

I personally don't want to offend anyone with this Bad Dudes project, and if it means not having it as an OCR project, then so be it.

However, I think the majority of us are forgetting something: this is about tribute. "Video game isn't necessarily blips and bloops, and here's proof"--is this not our mission? So, our projects overlap coverage...and? I don't see how this is a bad thing--the more tribute, the merrier.

[SnappleMan]

I could listen to an entire album that's just the same one source arranged 12 times by 12 different people, and absolutely adore it. As long as the people doing it know their shit, I wouldn't worry at all about overlaps.

Honestly, next thing you know, they'll take your thoughts away.

[Bahamut]

For people saying there's not overlap - you miss the point about what the overlap is, and the track overlap is larger once all of the tracks are updated on both ends.

And I agree, this is about tribute to music, but marginalization of one group with respect to another because of the desire to slap the Bad Dudes name is not tribute - it's cliquish & alienization.

Again, this wouldn't have been an issue if the thread hadn't been so hastily posted in the rush to get it out and something could have been worked beforehand. I'll leave it at that with kunal's effort to contact them and them to all work out something.

[anosou]

For people saying there's not overlap - you miss the point about what the overlap is, and the track overlap is larger once all of the tracks are updated on both ends.

And I agree, this is about tribute to music, but marginalization of one group with respect to another because of the desire to slap the Bad Dudes name is not tribute - it's cliquish & alienization.

Again, this wouldn't have been an issue if the thread hadn't been so hastily posted in the rush to get it out and something could have been worked beforehand. I'll leave it at that with kunal's effort to contact them and them to all work out something.

I really don't get where you're coming from. Like, at all. Marginalization of one group? We're just artists looking to cover VGM. I mean I wouldn't even see it as an issue if someone wanted to start a second OCR FFVII project, the more the merrier. Also, and I know I will come off as a douche here, the people doing BadAss has been trying to get it together for a long time and many of them are relatively unexperienced remixers. This project has 1. a different scope, 2. a different mission (BadDudes VS. OCR is a great idea), 3. more experienced remixers. But above and beyond I don't think this project in any way sabotages for BadAss. If we were to make this not an OCR project it's more like BadAss sabotages this project.

Also re: the hasty posting they DID talk to both Dave and Larry. Correct me if I'm wrong but if Dave says it's OK it kinda feels it's OK.

Live in harmony anyone? No?

[Bahamut]

I really don't get where you're coming from. Like, at all. Marginalization of one group? We're just artists looking to cover VGM. I mean I wouldn't even see it as an issue if someone wanted to start a second OCR FFVII project, the more the merrier. Also, and I know I will come off as a douche here, the people doing BadAss has been trying to get it together for a long time and many of them are relatively unexperienced remixers. This project has 1. a different scope, 2. a different mission (BadDudes VS. OCR is a great idea), 3. more experienced remixers. But above and beyond I don't think this project in any way sabotages for BadAss. If we were to make this not an OCR project it's more like BadAss sabotages this project.

Also re: the hasty posting they DID talk to both Dave and Larry. Correct me if I'm wrong but if Dave says it's OK it kinda feels it's OK.

Live in harmony anyone? No?

Problem is that djp and Larry didn't say anything near what Mustin might've been insinuating - they were like it sounds like a good idea but there was an expectation that more talking about it would've happened since it was a short talk from what I gathered. It was never an implicit or explicit green light to post the thread, which is why the thread blindsided everyone in staff chat when it happened, since we were busy hammering out details for the project approval process.

1. Scope isn't different - it's a complete containment of the other.

3. They haven't been afraid of taking experienced remixers either, as bLiNd and Sixto both told me they joined BadAss.

I wasn't saying to nix this or anything like that, but I was pointing out how poorly it all started and to try to find a remedy so that both could move forward without worrying further.

[anosou]

Problem is that djp and Larry didn't say anything near what Mustin might've been insinuating - they were like it sounds like a good idea but there was an expectation that more talking about it would've happened since it was a short talk from what I gathered. It was never an implicit or explicit green light to post the thread, which is why the thread blindsided everyone in staff chat when it happened, since we were busy hammering out details for the project approval process.

1. Scope isn't different - it's a complete containment of the other.

3. They haven't been afraid of taking experienced remixers either, as bLiNd and Sixto both told me they joined BadAss.

I wasn't saying to nix this or anything like that, but I was pointing out how poorly it all started and to try to find a remedy so that both could move forward without worrying further.

I still don't see what actual issues the potential overlap will cause. At all.

[BardicKnowledge]

IMO if someone was going to complain a bunch about this, they should have done so BEFORE everyone started signing up and it got popular.

Where were these complaints when I was making the potential tracklist for the project two weeks ago? If it wasn't a big deal then, claiming that it's a big deal now seems like people just want to spoil the fun everyone is having with this idea.