Big A2 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I have a question about the soundtrack that the community here made for Capcom's Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix. Now that I have a PS3, I was interested in the game, so I decided to check out the soundtrack and, I'm sorry to say, but man, it's clipping and compression-city. Does anyone know if this is this the way Capcom used it in the game or it just the version used on this site (so it's on par with modern stuff on the downloader's iPod or something)? Because if that's not the case, if you ask me, it's pretty amateur that something like this could happen to the site's most important project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushfire Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I have a question about the soundtrack that the community here made for Capcom's Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix. Now that I have a PS3, I was interested in the game, so I decided to check out the soundtrack and, I'm sorry to say, but man, it's clipping and compression-city. Does anyone know if this is this the way Capcom used it in the game or it just the version used on this site (so it's on par with modern stuff on the downloader's iPod or something)? Because if that's not the case, if you ask me, it's pretty amateur that something like this could happen to the site's most important project. Your PS3 has Red-Ringed. Get the flux capacitor replaced. You can pick those up at Wal-Mart. Make sure to pick up a Monster Brand fiber cable to eliminate the bleeps, creeps, and sweeps. Then ship all passes you have to Comic Con 2011 to Level 99 and the rest of the OCAD crew. Then listen to OCAD. That should fix your problem. In all seriousness, it could be your TV speakers causing your problem. My version on the 360 sounds fine. You gotta remember that they prolly don't have full, uncompressed audio in the game anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I have problems with my LCD HDTV speakers clipping w/ PS3 games as well. Doesn't happen at all with my 360, including HDRemix on 360. I would guess this is a PS3 problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A2 Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I don't have the game yet. I downlaoded the soundtrack here from the site and my ears aren't too fond of it. I wanted to know if the in-game version is the same as the one here on the site, in terms of mastering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 There isn't any clipping in the soundtrack. If you're hearing clipping it's a problem with your monitoring setup or sound card/audio interface. Most tracks are compressed/mastered at a reasonable level, though "Clamato Fever" is definitely pretty intense. Do you have any examples of tracks where you're hearing clipping or over-compression? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 it's clipping and compression-city... if you ask me, it's pretty amateur that something like this could happen to the site's most important project. Hahaha! Your setup is messed up, don't go blaming it on us. Hopefully zirc or someone else can help you figure out what's wrong on your side, because, as they say when you're getting dumped and they're being honest, "It's not me, it's you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Clamato Fever is a bit over-compressed I believe. To the OP, I believe you have the option to use the original music if you're not a fan of the new music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 There's compression - which, by the way, you'll find on pretty much every major game recording/ost, to SOME extent - but no clipping that I'm aware of. Clamato Fever is, as BGC mentions, intentionally going for an over-compressed sound. Give us some time markers for what you think is clipping. If you ask me - hell, even if you don't - it's pretty asinine and tactless to ask what should have been a simple question - "Does anyone else hear clipping?" but instead toss around words like "amateur" and "compression-city". Never assume that problems you're having, specifically, are indicative of a larger problem or failure on someone else's part, when they could just as easily be your own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollgagh Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 ho snap someone got told by the bossman himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A2 Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 There's compression - which, by the way, you'll find on pretty much every major game recording/ost, to SOME extent I know. Compression is found in every recording made ever. It's not a bad thing when used right. -but no clipping that I'm aware of. That's great to hear! Give us some time markers for what you think is clipping. At its best, clipping is when the peak digitally distorts; usually it's over as soon as it begins, so it's not too much of a problem. At its worst, it kills dynamics, introduces distortion, and makes everything sound harsh and grating. If you ask me - hell, even if you don't - it's pretty asinine and tactless to ask what should have been a simple question - "Does anyone else hear clipping?" but instead toss around words like "amateur" and "compression-city". But you see, that wasn't exactly my question. Never assume that problems you're having, specifically, are indicative of a larger problem or failure on someone else's part, when they could just as easily be your own... Okay; I don't have the game yet. I downloaded the soundtrack for the site. I just wanted to know whether the mp3s available for download here are the same mastering as the files used in the game. For example, here's Street Market in Audacity. This is the file I downloaded from the website, not from the game, because I don't have it yet. But thanks a lot for your help anyway! Sorry about blaming the community here. I guess I was just shocked that a community driven project could do something like that. So I’m glad to know that’s not the case. To the OP, I believe you have the option to use the original music if you're not a fan of the new music. More great news! I have problems with my LCD HDTV speakers clipping w/ PS3 games as well. Wait, what!? Do you know anything more about that? I wonder why it does that. Now that I mention, there's some very noticeable distortion on Casino Zone in Sonic 2 (via Ultimate Genesis Collection) when there's a lot of sound effects at the same time, but I assumed that was just the emulation or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar Man Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 From the OCR link right? Or is there some other Capcom site you're not listing? I listened to said MP3 from the OCR link. You either have insanely good ears hearing some normally inaudible issue or theres something wrong with your sound equipment, because sounds crystal clear to me. its a nice VBR mp3 too so I cant really detect ANY compression artifacts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSim Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 That screenshot you posted shows no clipping... why are there red lines all over the place?! The scale on the left hand side shows 1.0 as the VERY TOP and VERY BOTTOM of the y axis, not where you think it is. I don't know what you're using to generate those red lines, but again, it's not clipping at all. If it was clipping in all those places, you'd see a blue "brick". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSim Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Try checking other modern songs with Audacity (Note to those who are interested, the 'View->Show Clipping' function is only available in the latest beta version). I guarantee you will see similar clipping in some of them, even professional productions, but you probably won't be able to hear it. Try Flying Lotus - Cosmogramma. That thing hurts my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A2 Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Well, I have the game now, and was just able to record some of the music off my TV. The mp3 files have to be different. Listen to the main menu music. The mp3 has a crapload of distortion that's not present in the game's version. Now onto SubNormal’s giant post. An example of real clipping can be seen is this unfortunate rip of the Zelda: Twilight Princess soundtrack. (Click Here) Not only does it sounds awful, but upon further analysis, one can see a miserable amount of flat lines. (Click Here) I think I have the same rip. Whoever ripped it clearly didn't listen back. It's so obvious; a 2 year old would notice the distortion. Now comes the point. In the Chun-Li stage you mentioned (Click Here), I have found there is some real clipping, however, it's context is relatively appropriate, and relatively inaudible. So I agree with others that you probably have a bad audio setup or the like, but you are correct that there is clipping. Now, whether or not this clipping is in the master or an artifact of MP3 compression I do not know. I don't have the FLAC file on hand to check, but I am confident there is also similar clipping in the FLACs as well as the files used in-game. Not according to "The Bossman". Where there is flat-lining in this (Click Here) example (approxamately 0:06), there is some drum glitching used for a stylistic effect. My point in saying that, is that the clipping manifest in the SSF2THDR soundtrack does exhist, but it is not extreme and not a problem per se. It is just an unfortunate, natural consequence of modern mastering with 16-bit audio. The remixed tracks are 16-bit audio? You mean 16-bit as in SNES or 16-bit as in a WAV file? And besides, to say this is a consequence of "modern mastering" is just dumb. Just because all the big record companies are doing it doesn't mean everyone else has to. Try checking other modern songs with Audacity (Note to those who are interested, the 'View->Show Clipping' function is only available in the latest beta version). I guarantee you will see similar clipping in some of them, even professional productions, but you probably won't be able to hear it. Anyways, hopefully that's helpful. Again, just because it’s "professional" doesn't mean it's the benchmark for what music sounds like. Thanks for all the info. To be honest, the clipping wasn't my biggest concern, but the compression. I didn't want to get a headache playing the game, but so far that hasn't been an issue. I hate digital compression with a passion, sometimes just knowing it’s there is enough to get annoyed about it, but I guess that's just the sound the community here was going for. At least the retro tracks aren't over compressed (although not as dynamic as my copy of the SNES version of Super Street Fighter II, another interesting difference is that the sound effects in HD Remix all come out at the same sound but in SSFII they have different sound levels). I should really just relax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar Man Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Well, I have the game now, and was just able to record some of the music off my TV. The mp3 files have to be different. Listen to the main menu music. Out of curiosity, have you tried to play the mp3s on your PS3/TV? or if you already listened to them there, another source besides the possibly offending equipment? Also theres a FLAC available if the mp3s are somehow too compressed for you. I'm not hearing anything wrong with the menu title either, its a loud song (by design I'm sure) sure but I can hear everything clearly. Theres no audible issues and doesn't sound compressed. Not seeing a problem honestly but maybe this is some hyper audiophile type thing I'm missing (Which why aren't you listening to the FLAC if thats the case =P) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 The remixed tracks are 16-bit audio? You mean 16-bit as in SNES or 16-bit as in a WAV file? *facepalm* The only song I find noticeable clipping (for shame) is Clamato Fever. But just from skipping around on other tracks, I can tell you there is no clipping. Only fist pump style compression. From the OCR link right? Or is there some other Capcom site you're not listing? I listened to said MP3 from the OCR link. You either have insanely good ears hearing some normally inaudible issue or theres something wrong with your sound equipment, because sounds crystal clear to me. its a nice VBR mp3 too so I cant really detect ANY compression artifacts There's a difference between file compression and actually compressing the sound in terms of loudness. The latter is when you have audio go past a certain threshold of loudness and then it gets pushed down at a set ratio (basics of compression). This is what Big A2 is referring to. You're talking about file compression, which is hard for a lot of people to hear especially if it's a VBR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar Man Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 If he is talking about some audiophile issue and not something obviously WRONG with the mp3s a layman would pick up, I'm not sure how that would get better with the PS3 version unless there really is a mastering issue with the mp3 version over the FLAC/originals. So kinda confused here now heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 If he is talking about some audiophile issue and not something obviously WRONG with the mp3s a layman would pick up, I'm not sure how that would get better with the PS3 version unless there really is a mastering issue with the mp3 version over the FLAC/originals. So kinda confused here now heh It's not an audiophile issue; anyone can hear compression. He heard clipping in the songs, which could be the result of faulty listening gear or just having the volume knob too high somewhere in his audio routing, and is asking if the same EXACT VERSIONS of the songs were used in the PS3 version. As in, were the PS3 versions mastered better/the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC2151 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 the real question is that with Super Street Fighter 4 out, why you'd go and get SF2THDR in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 the real question is that with Super Street Fighter 4 out, why you'd go and get SF2THDR in the first place. Street Fighter 4 has crappy hit boxes and a terribly useless but a bit cheap thing called a focus attack. Third Strike ftw (parries all the way, bro) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare4War Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 the real question is that with Super Street Fighter 4 out, why you'd go and get SF2THDR in the first place. Wtf? That is certainly not the real question. HDremix is fun as fck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big A2 Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 *facepalm* No, seriously. It's not an audiophile issue; anyone can hear compression. He heard clipping in the songs, which could be the result of faulty listening gear or just having the volume knob too high somewhere in his audio routing, and is asking if the same EXACT VERSIONS of the songs were used in the PS3 version. As in, were the PS3 versions mastered better/the same? The only song I can hear clearly audible distortion on is Clamato Fever. Now I have the actual game, I can safely say that the distortion is not on the game, which would lead me to believe that the other songs had their gain turned up as well. With the other songs I think I was fooled by Audacity’s "Show Clipping" feature, but they still don't sound very good to me. Besides, if there isn't that much clipping, I usually don't hear any distortion, but the harshness and drop in dynamics is there. Whether that's a result of the compression I dunno. Something strange: I tired recording some of the song off my TV through a minijack-minijack cable, so I can save them onto my lappy and examine them closer, BUT, they all recorded in MONO! So I can't compare them against the mp3s until they decided to record in stereo. Other games were recording into stereo just fine, like Beatles Rock Band (which btw, sounds fantastic). No worries, bro. Dynamic mastering is just the way things are. I honestly prefer earlier digital masters, but that's a personal opinion and an entirely different topic. (See Here) Go have fun, play the game, and don't worry about it. Do you mean non-dynamic mastering is just the way thing are? Because if everything was mastered dynamically then we wouldn’t be having this discussion. But your right, I shouldn’t worry about it. Waste of time. The thing Zircon mentioned about the PS3 clipping does have me a little concerned though. I haven’t noticed any audible distortion, but like I said, could there be a drop in dynamic range? How can I check? OH GOD SOMEONE HELP ME. And yes, the game is fun as fck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishy Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 The thing Zircon mentioned about the PS3 clipping does have me a little concerned though. I haven’t noticed any audible distortion, but like I said, could there be a drop in dynamic range? How can I check? OH GOD SOMEONE HELP ME. If you have to check it with a meter to know if it's there, it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 the real question is that with Super Street Fighter 4 out, why you'd go and get SF2THDR in the first place. They're two very different games. SSF4 is much slower paced. Way more emphasis on memorizing long combos/links, not quite as balanced. HDR is tightly-balanced with more focus on timing and reading as opposed to flawless execution of links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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