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Not super motivated to be the billionth person to figure f.e. the MM2 Wily 1 lead out though.

having listened to it a billion times, i think sequencing would be faster..

i'm sure i'm not the only one here who randomly pictures melodies he's hearing in piano roll format. when the song is simple enough and i've heard it a whole lot, there isn't much work to do. you just know the intervals.

i can understand why you wouldn't wanna sequence wily's castle. extremely easy to argue against tho:

so there are a billion wily mixes

there are approximately 3/4 billion wily mixes using a midi from the web

let's use one of those and maek kikaz remix!

in this scenario, shouldn't you actually double your efforts to create something worthwhile and original? how is starting from the same midi template that countless others have used a better way of reassessing a monstrously overplayed classic than starting fresh?

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I do this too. For me, it makes interpretation a little easier, cause I inevitably get the rhythm/note wrong in certain spots, and it sounds better than the original. :)

I was going to make a related comment. Unless I just CAN'T remember how a tune goes, I avoid listening to the tune directly while remixing. I rarely remember the music perfectly so putting down what's in my head helps to add a personal touch to the interpretation of the source.

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For most of the time, I use Youtube to get the song. I would either then look up any MIDIs on VGMusic merely as a reference, or if they aren't accurate enough, I'd transcribe it myself (I believe my skills to be frighteningly accurate :razz: ). After that comes the studying of the different components of the source, and planning out the arrangement on paper, before putting it all to practice.

And voila, my methods :)

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@Nase

Not sure what you're arguing, I agree with your post before mine. :P

It was just an example. I also mentioned I was talking about covers too, not just ReMixes. Nothing wrong with just wanting to play (and record) something for quick fun even if you're the billionth person doing it (not everyone is trying to get on OCR/become a Pokémon master by being the very best like no one ever was all the time), I simply meant that if that's all you're looking to do it can indeed save time to go off a MIDI (and no, you don't sequence even the Wily 1 lead faster than the five clicks it takes to import a MIDI).

No, for an OCR style ReMix I personally wouldn't use a MIDI in my actual project (does seem counteractive) and would generally advice against it should anyone ask, but having one to look at if you're unsure about source specifics doesn't hurt (especially if the source isn't too clearly mixed and easy to hear what exactly plays what). ...which is pretty much what you said.

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@Nase

(and no, you don't sequence even the Wily 1 lead faster than the five clicks it takes to import a MIDI).

totally! because it usually takes longer to find a midi that isnt trash :o)

yeah i wasn't really meaning to argue, sorry if that came across wrong.

to be more clear, i have used lots of midis in the past, some of them ended up in remixes partially, but it usually was the stuff i had trouble figuring out and had not listened to that much. if it's something a million people have transcribed and remixed, it's usually no hassle to do myself, and i actually want to put in those notes i've heard so often manually. it's still somewhat satisfying when i've never sequenced it myself before.

also, to be even more anal about what i said: no problem with using the actual midis in remixes if you feel it doesn't compromise your work or if it doesn't really matter to you.

no point in being elitist about this.

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totally! because it usually takes longer to find a midi that isnt trash :o)
Unfortunately I must concede that that's a fair point (with all due respect to the hard working MIDI sequencers; perhaps it would be nice if sites like vgmusic.com had a way to rate MIDIs after how correct they are and the ones where creative liberties have been taken always clearly stated so, but anywaaay).

Yeah we totally agree, sorry if I came across as too defensive.

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Using a MIDI is out of the question for me. I think it's a lazy approach, and it also skips a big step of the arrangement process. Yes, you can alter the imported MIDI to add in your touch to the melodies, the chords, etc, but I'm 100% certain that you can't have as much original ideas when you do that than when you transcribe the song yourself.

This might just be a personal opinion, but I believe transcribing is a very important step in the creative process of ReMixing a song.

See, I'm tone deaf to the point where I can do it, it just takes an hour to get about 8 measures. Music is an unfortunate interest for me in that case.

This is something you can practice! :)

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This is something you can practice! :)

This is true, but most of the time my other interests (like gaming and coding and not failing to get my CS degree) usually get in the way of important music stuff (like actually developing my ear and actually using a keyboard instead of manually tweaking hell if I know what in the piano roll). Therefore, I am forced to use MIDIs for now. >_>

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This is true, but most of the time my other interests (like gaming and coding and not failing to get my CS degree) usually get in the way of important music stuff (like actually developing my ear and actually using a keyboard instead of manually tweaking hell if I know what in the piano roll). Therefore, I am forced to use MIDIs for now. >_>

I have to disagree with that. If you have the time to make music with MIDI, you therefore have the time to transcribe it yourself, it'll just take more time for as long as it takes for you to get used to it (and by the way I only mouse everything in, I don't use a keyboard ;-) ). I don't think anyone is "forced" to use MIDI, unless they must produce songs quickly.

But hey this is your choice and I respect it :)

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I do this too. For me, it makes interpretation a little easier, cause I inevitably get the rhythm/note wrong in certain spots, and it sounds better than the original. :)

Yep, that's generally why I go the ear-route, too. I'm not terribly good at just pasting the MIDI and making alterations. I'd rather "accidentally" make the alterations by misremembering how the tune goes or mistranscribing it just a bit.

Very well then. You are incorrect, it does hold back your musical development.

What a black and white world you live in... have you ever simply "disagreed" without informing the poor, ignorant, subservient third party that they are "wrong?"

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chroxic:

ear development can be a pastime. you can do it when listening to music, you can even do it silently by just imagining the intervals or humming them. it's a great pastime in class or at work.

you don't need a sequencer or a piano. only your brain.

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My approach has typically been to learn the melody by ear and then toss everything else, I'm terrible with harmonies and this ensures that it will be different from the original as well. A few times I've looked at MIDI's if I want to more closely replicate the feel of the original, but only to learn it, I think it's always a mistake if you take a MIDI and try to just start arranging from that, it's easier to change things starting from scratch

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Very well then. You are incorrect, it does hold back your musical development.

What a black and white world you live in... have you ever simply "disagreed" without informing the poor, ignorant, subservient third party that they are "wrong?"

Agreed. That is kind of a silly thing to say. Everyone works differently, that doesn't make one person or one way any "better". Plus...

I use a midi for most of my remixes. it saves me a metric shit-ton of time and is a good part of the reason why I am able to finish a track in a single day or less.

... I guess halc better get back to work then! His musical development is being hampered so much. I can tell by his massive collection of horrible remixes :razz:

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... I guess halc better get back to work then! His musical development is being hampered so much. I can tell by his massive collection of horrible remixes :razz:

halc was one of the "prominent remixers" to whom I was referring when I said that using MIDI clearly hasn't held some people back very much :P

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I don't really see how MIDIs are really that much different from loops or arpeggiators; some of the work is already done for you. SOME. of the work. is done for you. You still have to figure out how to be creative with it.

That being said, I work better without MIDIs, and I sequence my own drums (as sort of a pride thing, what with being a percussionist). Arpeggiators are fair game for me though; it still takes chord know-how to get complex stuff out of them

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... I guess halc better get back to work then! His musical development is being hampered so much.

it probably is. not so much but to some degree. go on and flame me.

he's still got a very good sense for melody and soundscape and all that, and the midi based stuff clearly goes through a lot of stages and edits. it sounds halcy in the end, so obviously he's doing just fine with it.

doesn't mean that it doesn't hamper his progress in any way. he said himself that figuring out the chords is a bitch and that he prefers midis as a base to get his remix going asap.

the pretty obvious consequence is that he will stay a bit weak in the figuring out chords department.

make of that what you will, it's a very worthwhile but ultimately not an essential music skill, esp. not in the digital environment. trial and error rules, and you don't really need to internalise everything western music theory has to offer to make awesome music.

i know enough people who've done better stuff than i but have less of a grasp of what they're doing with the notes or chords. and it's not like i'm very educated on the whole thing...

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I've probably written over 800 midis in the last decade so I don't really feel noob to get a .mid directly rip off a Snes cartridge. It's not like I couldn't write em, but that is when I wanna be close to the source and not forget anything.

However, I think that writing by ear is a lot easier and leads to great creativity.

:)

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it probably is. not so much but to some degree.

I wouldn't say his progress is hampered in the slightest. Have you heard halc's originals? There's no MIDI rips for that stuff... And it's not like chord progressions are impossible to change in a MIDI. For some, yes, it's a way for them to get started on what they wouldn't otherwise be able to start; but for others, it's just a way to lay down the base of a mix quickly, which can be altered in any way that the musician pleases.

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I wouldn't say his progress is hampered in the slightest. Have you heard halc's originals? There's no MIDI rips for that stuff... And it's not like chord progressions are impossible to change in a MIDI. For some, yes, it's a way for them to get started on what they wouldn't otherwise be able to start; but for others, it's just a way to lay down the base of a mix quickly, which can be altered in any way that the musician pleases.

Hey Pete, for now on, I'm gonna talk about our lesson material through OCR threads that we're both subscribed to. Great idea, right?

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