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Kickstarter FAQ / issues / concerns

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BGC, I am concerned for OCR's appearance in the legal system.

Whether you're handling the surplus well in a harmless not-for-profit way or not, Square Enix isn't gonna care when all they see is you guys generating oodles of funding for something that has Final Fantasy all over it.

However, if you guys have tons and tons of prize ideas lined up for this, it seems you have it under control.

Perhaps if you stated that out in the open you guys wouldn't have had so much negative feedback.

It's not really legal to take donations for one thing and then use it for something else.

I just don't have the energy to reply to why you're still far too concerned with something that's not really an issue. Suffice it to say, I wouldn't worry about it. OCR isn't pulling some shady scam here. Either support it, or don't, and move on. There will always be folks who are upset by the success of others. Heaven forbid that a non-profit site like OCR actually receive an abundance of monetary support after all these years of volunteer service to the world of video game music. I hate to think that MORE awesome things might come as a result of said support.

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Honestly, a lot of these compilations are a sea of shit you have to wade through to find a few gems.

As someone who directed one of the albums that probably falls under that criteria, I will reply to this. Yes, there were a lot of quality control issues with some of the earlier compilations released through OCR several years ago, Summoning of Spirits \being one of them. However, I feel that almost all of the albums released since the implementation of album standards and reviewing have been very consistent and much better quality, and every album since Echoes of Betrayal has been damn solid across the board in my mind. Not that the earlier albums should be discounted (it was, after all, Blood on the Asphalt that got OCR the gig to compose Street Fighter II HD ReMix, and it's honestly showing its age a bit at this point) but I have thoroughly enjoyed every album released over the last several years and have been very impressed at how much album quality has improved.

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Anyway, back on topic. The actual topic; not PR gaffes.

Noooo, I didn't get to bust out "I misspoke and I apologize!" :'-(

EDIT: At the end of the day, people are going to claim bullshit things about the site and what the artists are creating. I can ignore the subjective comments, but I'm going to have to just ignore the ones that are framed as being objective and fact-based, even though they're not.

Basically, this:

"The FFVII album was mostly nonsense techno filth."

http://twitter.com/atbigelow/status/223088927945400320

=

Jon Kyl Tweets Not Intended to Be Factual Statements

Stephen celebrates Jon Kyl's groundbreaking excuse-planation

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/381484/april-12-2011/jon-kyl-tweets-not-intended-to-be-factual-statements

And that's no hate/drama redux on atbigelow, as there's no way I should have insulted him, but it's just acknowledging that sometimes e-people are going to say WHATEVER, facts be damned, and we're just gonna have to realize it's not necessarily grounded in any reality. So I overreacted, and took what was framed as factual at face value. :-D

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Also: the politics that go on behind the scenes for submissions is outrageous and petty

You don't know the fucking half of it.

Let the drams roll!

in the interest of full disclosure, I was an active (and extremely popular) remixer at ocr until I got shafted and not invited to participate.

I had nothing to do with this situation, but I didn't realize there was a case of taking offense due to some sort of protocol we didn't follow for you. It seems like you've filled in the gaps with your own explanations or got really bad secondhand information to explain these situations to yourself.

These projects are usually planned years in advance (I would guess this one has been in the works for about 4 years now) and kept secret until, in this case, someone created a public FF6 OCR remix project and it was shut down due to forcing an announcement of the secret one.

Sorry, but in creative communities, the development of everything isn't required to be broadcast to the public, even for you. We also made the Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix soundtrack privately. Not everyone needed to know, that's just how it is.

1. This FF6 project started in late 2011, not 4 years ago, so that's not true. McVaffe and zircon compiled a list of people they had previously worked with (e.g. from Voices of the Lifestream) and invited them to the project. No politics involved in wanting to work with people you already have a good relationship with as the starting point.

2. This project has nothing to do with the other FF6 project on OCR. We didn't shut it down, so that's not true. When zircon saw that Prophecy (the director of the second FF6 project) was interested in starting one, zircon spoke to him and asked if he was interested in collaborating. He wasn't, so they decided to work on our projects separately and amicably.

5 disks and they couldn't even ask me to do one track? yeah, kind of pissed.

3. No hate, we're cool (love playing Street Fighter with you; I always win), but I think you overreacted there. We ran a very public remix contest to get more people on board, and invited a whole group of new people on. If you weren't invited, that doesn't mean you're hated, you could have participated. zircon has also been messaged by people whose work was stellar and who he invited because they politely asked and expressed interest. If you weren't invited, you could have asked nicely to join up.

It seems like you're more offended you weren't invited, as if someone inviting you was the most important protocol about this whole thing, thus "it's all politics" to explain it away. Seemingly, it was not on your radar or beneath you to try to get on the album by either participating in the contest or just asking zircon or McVaffe in a chat or email, and thus you "quit" OCR. Well, you didn't have to do all that, and I'm not sure why the protocol or formula of you being invited was the only way you'd be willing to join, but that's certainly one way to react.

also, I've always been 100% against making money from fan remixes in ANY case whatsoever, and that's actually one of the main reasons there was the whole vgmix/ocremix split thing.

Morals differences over money or licensing was NOT one of the main reasons for the VGMix/OCR split at all, says djp:

[16:33] that's just patently false

[16:33] that's such a lie that he almost must know it's a lie

[16:34] the vgmix drama amounted to not MUCH more than Jake's ego being stepped on; I deleted a forum post of his and he lost it

[16:35] there had been drama prior because he didn't like how cotmm OP'd the IRC channel

[16:35] I have emails to prove it

[16:35] both Jake and myself could/should have behaved better, and there WERE some other legit criticisms or differences of opinion that helped form vgmix

[16:36] Money was never once mentioned in any context and Justin was like, what, 11 at the time?

[16:36] that's the type of bold-faced lie that deserves being corrected

[16:41] regarding money being involved in vgmix, I'll put it out there that that's a lie, and I can prove it, and I have no problem whatsoever w/ Jake being asked as well, as we're the only two people who can say what happened, and money had jack shit to do with it

[16:49] hey, I don't think cotmm, Jake, or myself really care about what happened that many years ago, or would object to it being characterized as such

[16:49] people should know he's just outright lying

[16:50] I'll stake the entire reputation of OC ReMix that his statement is completely false in that I recall absolutely no mention of money before, during, or after the vgmix split being in any way, shape, or form connected to its occurrence

[16:51] he is either knowingly lying, or he is repeating secondhand misinformation as fact

I was only a lurker in early 2002, but morals differences over money or licensing had 0 to do with the creation of VGMix. Neither OCR nor VGMix were advocating selling unofficial arrangements. Where did you even hear that? Whoever gave you that info is full of shit. :lol:

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There's a point where I think (and hope) it's acknowledged that the internet is this huge place.

If you go tracking down (it sometimes seems like it) every negative comment that really shouldn't matter at this point w/ the mentality to "squish" it, it usually kinda backfires into shit storms like this.

Huge posts like this are not helping. Can't you resolve your differences in private?

Edit: I mean this in the nicest way possible. You're responding to one guy's difference of opinion on another forum on this forum. In a way it feels like an "official" response because of how it all started on Twitter. He's not even posting here. So I say, if it's important to correct him or discuss issues, then talk to him about it, instead of fronts like this which are obviously alienating and insulting, regardless of any sugar coating and "Oh we're bros dude" overtures. You may think that posting all of these corrections will help spread good information about OCR, but what I see is people outside of this reacting in 2 ways.

1. They will think that OCR does indeed deserve a reputation for drama.

2. They will believe what he says because of the way this has been handled (dramatically).

There is no maliciousness to this post. THE END.

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Wait so Larry finally got out of the bubble and got a hint of what the rest of the internet thinks about OCRemix and he flipped out? Whatev, Larry you gotta fight for what's right, I support you. If you don't stand up for what you believe in, then might as well quit right now.

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There's a point where I think (and hope) it's acknowledged that the internet is this huge place.

If you go tracking down (it sometimes seems like it) every negative comment that really shouldn't matter at this point w/ the mentality to "squish" it, it usually kinda backfires into shit storms like this.

Huge posts like this are not helping. Can't you resolve your differences in private?

Edit: I mean this in the nicest way possible. You're responding to one guy's difference of opinion on another forum on this forum. In a way it feels like an "official" response because of how it all started on Twitter. He's not even posting here. So I say, if it's important to correct him or discuss issues, then talk to him about it, instead of fronts like this which are obviously alienating and insulting, regardless of any sugar coating and "Oh we're bros dude" overtures. You may think that posting all of these corrections will help spread good information about OCR, but what I see is people outside of this reacting in 2 ways.

1. They will think that OCR does indeed deserve a reputation for drama.

2. They will believe what he says because of the way this has been handled (dramatically).

There is no maliciousness to this post. THE END.

No worries about maliciousness. We're dudes, bro-sister.

This stuff's a blip in the bigger picture, so I'll probably split off any drama from the main thread, which is the progress of the Kickstarter. But since a lot of the talk is about how the site seemingly functions according to another large community and now Justin, who's a quality ReMixer and a part of this community also, I think it's fair to reply publicly and be upfront about it, messy as it is for bystanders sometimes. I think in his case, there was a misperception from him leading to him feeling slighted when he shouldn't have, but I'd rather address his points and hopefully hold hands later.

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Getting pissed off, throwing a public tantrum, and leaving a community because you didn't get invited to a private remix project is some childish and immature bullshit. There's thousands of other people out there who make quality music that weren't invited either. I have huge lists of people that I wanted to invite to my projects but never could or did for one reason or another. What makes one person so much more special above all of them?

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I hope djp uses it to get a new Ferrari. At the rate it's going they'll probably end up with enough.

I wouldn't care if djp said up front he was doing just that. I'd be pretty damn proud to donate to my first kickstarter, happier still that it was to OCR, and overjoyed to look forward to the CD/DVD set I think I just bought.

A webcomic I frequent had a goal of $50,000 and made a bit over $1mil. We should all be so fortunate. As it is, I'm sufficiently tickled that this project came along just as I gained enough cash to be a contributor.

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Gotta watch out. The stuff that's in the vid doesn't come close to costing even the original $15k that the kickstarter was for. If this money is gonna go lining some peoples pockets under the guise of "site costs" then I'm gonna be dropping out ASAP. I don't work for free so that someone else can make a modest profit.

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Gotta watch out. The stuff that's in the vid doesn't come close to costing even the original $15k that the kickstarter was for. If this money is gonna go lining some peoples pockets under the guise of "site costs" then I'm gonna be dropping out ASAP. I don't work for free so that someone else can make a modest profit.

Not that I'm jumping on a "hail OCR they're never wrong" bandwagon if one even exists, but I doubt they'd do something that douchey. That's not even douchey in fact. That's just mean.

But OCR has proven themselves to be good people in the past, IMO.

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So where's this money going? And don't answer with "It's going back into OCR, webspace blah blah", tell us the truth. :)

I wanted that Ferrari, but they told me no. :cry:

In all seriousness, though, that is currently being worked out by the staff. Zircon was kind enough to give a breakdown on the original 15k goal on Kickstarter - some of it is going into the album production, in fact (I have no specifics in that regard - that's Zircon's deal). EDIT: Missed this, but Zircon mentioned what that was for in another thread...

Original post by Zircon

None of the ReMixers involved with the project are getting paid (or any site staff). However, it is possible that we might need to hire someone outside of the community for $$ (eg. session musicians, mastering engineers). Of course we'll be doing our absolute best to keep everything inhouse and free, of course.

So that's what the extra production costs might be going into.

There will be a portion that goes back into the site, of course - seeing that this is replacing the 'April is Support OCR Month' that normally raises the money that keeps the site going, I don't think that's uncalled for (Considering the Support OCR month has raised up to 7000+$ in the past, that is a considerable amount to make up). The rest is being worked on, as it stands - give the staff a little time to respond to the overwhelming support; they'll be open with you all when they finalize their decisions.

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Use the access money to start whatever it is that's an interest-bearing bank account for nonprofit entities to go towards site maintenance and so forth.

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So where's this money going? And don't answer with "It's going back into OCR, webspace blah blah", tell us the truth. :)

All of it's going to the Fostering Underdeveloped Nerds: Breast Augmentation for Gaming Girls fund, or FUN:BAGG. It's a charity to allow any flat-chested (sub A-cup) gaming girls across the US and Canada, to acquire A-cups or larger if they so choose. The only catch is that any woman who applies, must agree to a Sports Illustrated-level photo shoot for the OCR Facebook page.

Oh, and there are no rewards given until the $500 level, at which point you get hi-res photos of all the women who participated.

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Gotta watch out. The stuff that's in the vid doesn't come close to costing even the original $15k that the kickstarter was for.

agreed, someone's making a fat profit from doing supposedly "free" game remixing.

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agreed, someone's making a fat profit from doing supposedly "free" game remixing.

Actually, for a 4-CD release, $15K is cutting it awfully close. I'm not sure how they would have afforded any studio time at all if they hadn't smashed that goal.

Anyway, I think that the kickstarter campaign was a fantastic idea. I hope it brings in more money than they know what to do with.

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I hope it brings in more money than they know what to do with.

I think it may already have. Expectations were clearly shattered; they obviously went into it thinking that $15k in 30 days would be kind of a stretch. Nobody could have anticipated that the goal would be shattered in a single day.

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