OUYA: A $99 Android console meant to open up console gaming

[The Derrit]

i'm not sure how everyone can possibly be like 'computers are more expensive than consoles what are you talking about' when a) everyone owns a computer a basic, out of the box laptop that i bought from best buy 2 years ago for about 600 runs every possible indie game i would want it to, and also runs the most current prince of persia, arkham asylum, and burnout pretty much without a hitch. and, you know, is a computer. which everyone not living in the dark ages needs.

you would have to actively look for a shitty old computer to find one that can't run current indie games. the argument is that everyone already owns a computer, and unless your computer is on it's last legs and was bought 6 years ago, has the ability to play any game that could possibly hit the ouya from a specifications standpoint. plus dancing around this issue is even further moot because it started at PSP, and frankly you CAN get a PSP for 100 dollars or less, easily. and specifications be damned, no one that's developing ouya games is going to make a game prettier than the best-looking psp games for a good while.

[Ramaniscence]

i'm not sure how everyone can possibly be like 'computers are more expensive than consoles what are you talking about' when a) everyone owns a computer a basic, out of the box laptop that i bought from best buy 2 years ago for about 600 runs every possible indie game i would want it to, and also runs the most current prince of persia, arkham asylum, and burnout pretty much without a hitch. and, you know, is a computer. which everyone not living in the dark ages needs.

I'm sorry but, current Prince of Persia? The last Prince of Persia title was released in 2008. That's 5 years ago.

Even Arkham Asylum is 4 years old now.

Does your laptop support 1080 resolution? Because there's a big different between 1920*1080 and 1280*960. Can you provide a screenshot of the specs of your laptop and the specs you're running for the game? Can you show screenshots of what the game looks like with a FRAPs of the FPS it's pushing? Basically: Can you substantiate these claims? Because if you can't, frankly I don't care about your hearsay.

This is really comparing apples to oranges.

plus dancing around this issue is even further moot because it started at PSP, and frankly you CAN get a PSP for 100 dollars or less, easily. and specifications be damned, no one that's developing ouya games is going to make a game prettier than the best-looking psp games for a good while.

If I may:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BDSRkXUjSls/TLXjqOglfwI/AAAAAAAABt4/HctNls5t5iw/s1600/Little-big-planet-PSP.jpg (Actual late-generation PSP game developed by Sony running at actual PSP resolution)

http://cdn.steampowered.com/v/gfx/apps/223220/ss_5bc81a6d8126be3f78754e2fd722ecc029cf0a97.1920x1080.jpg?t=1360699592 (Actual game for Ouya running at actual resolution that Ouya can support, but not necessarily running on Ouya hardware)

It's worth noting that that last link is actually an Android title being run on Ouya hardware. It's not a game that has actually been developed for Ouya, but it's also a title that is running at 720p, which is something that PSP can not do.

You can compare apples to oranges all you want, but to say that Ouya developers do not have the knowledge or resources to create titles that look higher quality than PSP games is just plain ignorant.

The amount of specifications and OpenGL support that the Ouya has open to through a lot of really easy to use technologies is ridiculous.

I mean, really. Do you have experience in 3D modeling and texturing? Do you know what the difference between a normal and a bump map is? Do you know the difference between 3D dynamic lighting and baked lighting and shadows? Do you know how much harder it is to make a 3000 pixel model versus a 30,000 pixel model? Do you know the difference between having the opportunity to animate with an IK/FK rig versus not?

I'm all for someone playing devil's advocate, but some of the things you're saying are just plain false.

Frankly, what I'm surprised no one mentioned the Wii. Or even the original XBOX. They're both really good, open, homebrew consoles when cracked. They're fairly inexpensive now a days. They can be hooked up to a TV. They have a good amount of technology available to developers. They have good looking games. Heck, the XBOX even has 720p support, but you guys are all hung up on the PSP for some reason which just isn't even a real comparison.

But wait, the XBOX and Wii aren't even a real comparison because companies, independent or not, aren't actively developing software for them because modding your console to play homebrew apps is illegal.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Ramaniscence

[Crowbar Man]

Derrit:

1) Not everybody wants to play console style games on a computer, or hook their computer to a TV. This just isn't considered "Normal" even if its a thing that can obviously be done by those who want to. We've been down this road.

2) How is $600 cheaper than $99? Or any other consoles for that matter?

3) As Ramaniscence pointed out, you don't seem to really know what you are talking about. Maybe you haven't seen a PSP in a while, or confusing it with the Vita, but PSP has some pretty dated graphics (low resolution, lack of effects, low polycount, etc), it wouldn't be very hard to surpass it on the OUYA (or any modern mobile device for that matter) even for a smaller dev. It has a far more modern graphics API, programmable shaders, and there are tons of tools available on the market a lot even free. The quick ports on it NOW look better than PSP games. The hardware's resolution, polycount, and effects alone make it pretty hard to make something look worse than PSP. And that is just 3D. How's it going to be harder to make games look better in 2D on it?

4) No matter what, you have big black letter boxing on PSP on a TV. The cord doesn't come with PSP (extra $$). The cord tethers you to your TV so you can't relax too too far away. It still has a MSRP $129. It is reaching End of Life Cycle. You really can't do local multiplayer without another unit on top of everything. Don't know why these points keep getting ignored, or why PSP keeps being dragged into the conversation in the first place

Just seems odd people want to keep kicking up a fuss over something that costs a measly $99 and is aimed at bettering the market for small devs in the console space. I'm going to enjoy the ride and hope for the best.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Nabeel Ansari]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BDSRkXUjSls/TLXjqOglfwI/AAAAAAAABt4/HctNls5t5iw/s1600/Little-big-planet-PSP.jpg (Actual late-generation PSP game developed by Sony running at actual PSP resolution)

http://cdn.steampowered.com/v/gfx/apps/223220/ss_5bc81a6d8126be3f78754e2fd722ecc029cf0a97.1920x1080.jpg?t=1360699592 (Actual game for Ouya running at actual resolution that Ouya can support, but not necessarily running on Ouya hardware)

...

You can compare apples to oranges all you want,

WAT

Derrit:

1) I don't want to play console style games on a computer, or hook my computer to a TV. This just isn't considered "Normal" even if its a thing that can obviously be done by those with the ability to order a cable. We've been down this road.

*cough*

Wat.

Obviously you've never built OR set up a PC gaming rig if you think it is "Get cable, plug cable". And no, PCs do not cost $0. Just because you have it now doesn't mean that you didn't pay for it at some point. What a lousy argument.

Obviously those 3 that I built never existed, right.

I didn't say PCs cost $0. How can you reliably argue if you don't even read?

Who are you kidding?

Just seems odd people want to keep kicking up a fuss over something that costs a measly $99 and is aimed at bettering the market for small devs in the console space.

Because you don't understand that it doesn't.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Neblix

[Crowbar Man]

Um, what indeed? I already have a computer hooked up to my TV. I play tons of console style games on my computer (did you not read any of my posts?) I'm not shallow thinking enough to think just because I've done it, everybody else will do it.

Obviously those 3 that I built never existed, right.

Not if all you did was "get cable, plug in cable". It takes a lot more than that to build PC yourself (I built and fixed them for a living). Even if you bought one at a store theres quite a bit of setup involved. Either way, your average consumer does not buy a PC to hook up to a TV. Dance around that all you want but those are simple facts.

I didn't say PCs cost $0. How can you reliably argue if you don't even read?

Who are you kidding?

This is a really lame rebuttal (and trollish)

The fact is, your PC cost more then $99. This is $99. Facts.

You said your PC "cost you $0" to hook up to a TV, yet that isn't true because you bought it at some point. Or someone else bought it for you. They don't materialize out of thin air, but if you found a way to do that, I would love to learn your secrets! (Seriously. It would be a lucrative business endeavor )

Because you don't understand that it doesn't.

How so? Just because YOU don't like it or people aren't giving it a chance? It isn't even technically out yet so isn't that a bit early to say anything about it? So far they've done what they've said: Its a low barrier entry console at best, and just another Android device on the market at worse. So it is doing technically what they advertised

Edited April 6, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Nabeel Ansari]

Not if all you did was "get cable, plug in cable". It takes a lot more than that to build PC yourself (I built and fixed them for a living). Even if you bought one at a store theres quite a bit of setup involved.

Building a PC is a flat 1 hour ordeal.

Steps:

1. Put processor in motherboard, then heatsink on top. This is the only "complicated" part.

2. Plug the parts together. They all have unique looking cables and ports. It is virtually impossible to mess this up unless you can't hold a screwdriver.

Here's your "quite a bit of setup":

1. Plug back cables

2. Insert Windows Disc

3. Install anything you want

Your price argument really sucks. You're not quite understanding that instead of spending $99 on an Ouya I can stay with what I already have for 0 cost.

I don't have to rebuy my computer to put it in the TV.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Neblix

[DaMonz]

Building a PC is a flat 1 hour ordeal.

Yeah, it probably is for everyone.

Ahem.

[The Derrit]

Building a PC is a flat 1 hour ordeal.

Steps:

1. Put processor in motherboard, then heatsink on top. This is the only "complicated" part.

2. Plug the parts together. They all have unique looking cables and ports. It is virtually impossible to mess this up unless you can't hold a screwdriver.

Here's your "quite a bit of setup":

1. Plug back cables

2. Insert Windows Disc

3. Install anything you want

everything else notwithstanding there's just no way to argue building a computer is hard. i had literally never done anything regarding computer hardware before, and 3 years ago i built one in like an hour and a half. maybe 2. i'm on it right now.

[Crowbar Man]

That is all a massive over simplification. Even so, do you really expect an average individual to even be able to follow those "simple" steps? Virtually impossible? I've had fried components, bent pins, etc come in from people doing the stupidest of things. You have a pretty naive faith in humanity if you think its impossible for people not have enough skill to build a computer. And that is if everything works as expected and you don't get a defective part, bad ram, etc. and then have to trouble shoot what has gone wrong.

Not to mention if you think everybody WANTS to.

I don't know what your deal is but its obvious you are just arguing for argue sake without really much of a point, or basis in reality

Edit: Ditto for Derrit

Edited April 6, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[zircon]

It's definitely hard. I've tried building them three times. There are many ways to mess it up, many parts that can be broken with the wrong pressure being applied. Every case is different, sometimes drastically so. Parts can be incompatible with your case, or each other. Stevo (who builds computers practically for a living) spent like an hour the other day just figuring out how to swap a hard drive from my current machine, and he's about 10x better at this stuff than I am. It's definitely not something that anyone can do, even if they're technically-minded. If we can all agree that I'm not a moron with computers then it only takes one example like myself to disprove the argument.

And as Crowbar Man said, almost nobody hooks up their computer to a TV. The majority of households in the U.S. are not wealthy enough to have a primary use computer and a secondary gaming computer. Even if they HAVE a gaming computer, it's unlikely that it will be in their living room. Jill (my wife) reads 2-3 home decor magazines monthly, and watches an enormous amount of home decorating shows - and I've joined her on many occasions - and do you know how many households, even pre-fancy-decorating, have computers in the living room? Zero. I've never seen a single one in hundreds of episodes/articles.

[GravitySuitCollector]

The Ouya is aiming to fill a perceived niche; it's just some people aren't picking up on that. It's meant to be an easily accessible, inexpensive platform for devs to release on without paying however much Microsoft or Sony wants(there still is some, have to make money somehow), and to able to play them on your TV easily. PC's actually do take a bit of time to hook up. It's harder than moving and setting up a PS3, that's for sure.

Hopefully for those who are getting an Ouya, there will be plenty of good multiplayer games. That's usually the only reason besides console exclusivity that I get games for console now. It's not as enjoyable having to configure and set up your computer before being able to play together (boot it up, log in to Steam, button map the controllers, set resolution, miss someone's controller's unplugged, close/reopen the game...). Between Super Metroid on an emulator or console (even Wii VC), I prefer the console. It's much simpler.

[Kenogu Labz]

The point isn't that no-one does hook up their computer. It's the fact that most people will already have a PC they can use for both games and other applications, hence the need for extra investment into gaming hardware is $0. PCs are capable of being hooked up to the TV; the only issue is with common system placement and the relative inconvenience of cabled utilities (keyboard, mouse). As people realize that the PC can do all a console can - and more - and as it becomes easier to remotely connect displays, the gap consoles fill is becoming narrower and narrower.

[EC2151]

Not really - the Wii showed us that consoles are just as viable as ever - or rather they can be, granted that you make games that people actually want to play on it, instead of PC ports.

[Kenogu Labz]

But why not develop those same games for a PC? The only reason is that of consistent hardware with concrete capabilities. That is the defining point of a console: the hardware and architecture are known. Once we can safely abstract these architecture differences away from the game developers without causing a loss in performance or flexibility, consoles will be a moot point. Will that day come anytime soon? Perhaps not, but many of the issues are already dealt with.

Another aspect could be the market. The market for consoles is alive because there used to be a niche to fill; it could be that many do not realize that the niche is very small, and could be filled by their other devices just as well. Either way, the console creators can still thrive on that niche because the PC isn't seen as a viable competitor, even when it has the capacity to be.

[EC2151]

I think that's missing the larger point of a console. Nintendo was successful with the NES, SNES, and Wii because it sort of understood what makes console-gaming viable to begin with - low cost, social interaction, simplicity, and mass appeal. Arguably, Sega did something similar with the Genesis, but in that regard it far more targeted young boys, which was a valid marketing move that gave them great success in the 16bit days. And Sony with the PS1 and PS2 realized how it could beat Nintendo offering similar strategies and targeting the mass audiences that Nintendo left behind in the N64 days.

A successful console doesn't have anything to do with hardware specs or its relation to PCs, because PCs will always dominate in the hardware department. But the strength of a console is in that its hardware specs ultimately don't matter, which is what a lot of people forget in the PC vs Console scream-matches.

[Dhsu]

Yep, love how this keeps devolving into a PC Master Race argument.

[The Damned]

Bah. You're all fools. The true system of choice is the GameBoy Advance SP.

Tremble in fear of its mighty 32-bit hardware and superior library of games!

[zircon]

Another aspect could be the market. The market for consoles is alive because there used to be a niche to fill; it could be that many do not realize that the niche is very small, and could be filled by their other devices just as well. Either way, the console creators can still thrive on that niche because the PC isn't seen as a viable competitor, even when it has the capacity to be.

PCs have a ways to go before they're competing in the same space as consoles. They're certainly not interchangeable (yet) for something like the Ouya. For that to happen, PCs need...

* Far more standardized hardware for compatibility, optimization, and troubleshooting.

* Accessible standardized tech support options (Geek Squad anyone?)

* Much more compact form factors.

* Universally faster boot & load times.

* Streamlined interfaces oriented toward gaming (i.e. no reliance on mouse/keyboard to get things booted up and running).

* Lower price points.

It's true that everyone has a computer, but relatively few people have the flexibility of hauling their computer to a living room to use it with a TV. This can require hardware and furniture that the average person might not have or be able to afford. Once it's set up, you still need to rely on a cumbersome keyboard and mouse to operate the OS and get to your games, which is less elegant than a standard controller. If you have problems with the hardware, you have no universal tech support number to call, no warranty for the system itself.

Note that I'm not disparaging the PC for gaming at all... I do most of my gaming on a PC. I'm just saying the defining point of a console is a cheaper, optimized, easy-to-use hardware unit with a small form factor, built from the living room and completely idiot-proofed. PCs are not there yet.

[Kenogu Labz]

Very much agreed. I'm just trying to view the discussion from a high-level perspective. The reasons you list are the primary ones I've run into when considering this; similar reasoning can be used when looking at Linux game development, a bridge that's only recently being gapped by industry developers as standard platforms become stable. No developer would want to spend months - or even years - accounting for every possible fine-tuned environment Linux users may have. A PC or a Mac would have similar potential issues, corresponding more with the hardware. Consoles are certainly unique in their ease of development and usability.

That's why I'm hoping the two worlds can be merged at some point, using the age-old software engineering method of abstraction. Remove the complexity of the underlying system from the developer's hands, and allow them to build on a stable system: console, PC, or even mobile devices. Abstract the interfaces away from the machines, so users can view and control their games without needing to understand every detail about how they need to be connected.

A pipe dream? Perhaps, but that's the high-level reason many people are arguing that PCs are the 'master race': eventually, given time and years of progress, it will subsume the very concept of consoles. You can see companies pushing that way now, with remotely streamed games, systems such as the OUYA, or even products like Steam for Linux. Inherently, they're devices that perform the same tasks: Consoles are your specialists, PCs are your generalists.

[GravitySuitCollector]

Bah. You're all fools. The true system of choice is the GameBoy Advance SP.

Tremble in fear of its mighty 32-bit hardware and superior library of games!

Which one? I hope you mean the AGS-101, otherwise I'm going to have to come blind you with mine.

[Level 99]

http://www.whatgamesare.com/2013/01/2013-the-year-of-the-microconsole.html

I like the term Microconsole.

[The Damned]

It makes it easier to turn into dick jokes, yes.

[Gario]

Oh hey, I got mine in today. Tinkered with it a little bit, got the firmware updated, etc. It's pretty much what I'd expect it to be, at this stage - fun little games on there and some emulators.

Controls are tight (save for a moment when it felt like it got stuck on a command in one game - could have been the game, as that didn't happen again), so no worries there. The touchpad will take some getting used to though. The controller is comfortable, too.

The interface is alright. The exiting method for the games are a bit inconsistent, but the controller has a hard exit option on it, so it's not too big of an issue,

Some of the games are actually pretty fun, and it's nice to see that there are plenty of exclusives on there already (even though there currently isn't anything TOO spectacular - for a few months time for development, though, some of them are great).

The FtP and demo model of showing off games (as I haven't purchased any games yet) actually works pretty well, so far, and I've seen various methods of implementing it already (in Canabalt, for example, you can play five free attempts per day, unless you pay, and FFIII you could play for a short time before you needed to pay up). I think it can work for the company, if they stick to it.

Shuttle Rush was pretty fun, too (nice work, DaMonz!)

It's pretty much what I expected the system to be for 100$. I haven't checked out too many games yet (there are a surprising number, considering this is pre-launch), but in time I'll have a more rounded idea of what this system is capable of.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Gario

[theshaggyfreak]

Just got the e-mail that mine will be shipping soon. I'm looking forward to seeing how the future unfolds for this little guy.

[DaMonz]

Shuttle Rush was pretty fun, too (nice work, DaMonz!)

Thanks man, I'm glad you liked it!