Fit Club ahoy! Where men are bros and women are also bros!

[ectogemia]

So diet.... I know I should eat breakfast. It jump starts your metabolism and get's your body active which in turn causes more energy consumption. But for me it works too well. If I eat breakfast, I'm absolutely starving by 10am. If I don't eat breakfast, I can easily wait on eating till dinner. (yea, I know that in order to lose weight, you gotta eat.)

False. Breakfast doesn't jump start your metabolism. In fact, "jump starting your metabolism" is a meaningless aphorism. Ask any biochemist what the hell that means. You'll get no concrete response. There are so many reasons you are hungry soon after breakfast but not when you skip it. So... skip it.

Fasting is extremely beneficial, especially with weight loss. Insulin, not calories, is usually the most important factor to control when seeking to lose fat (this does not always apply; diabetics or those with an adrenal disorder are exceptions, for instance). High insulin = high fat retention. Fasting increases your cells' sensitivity to insulin which means you will need to produce less insulin to get the same blood sugar regulation as you would in an insulin insensitive state. Again, insulin leads to fat retention. So, simply put, fasting leads to decreased insulin which leads to decreased fat retention.

As an aside about breakfast, carbohydrates do little to bring about satiety. Protein is the strongest satiety signal to the body with fat coming in at a fairly distant 2nd place. If you eat lots of carbs for breakfast, as almost everyone does, you're sure to be hungry soon thereafter. To your gut, brain, and endocrine system, eating a meal of only carbs -- especially simple and refined carbs -- is interpreted almost as though you've eaten no meal at all. There are many reasons for this, and I can go into it if you're interested. Moving on, though...

Anyway, breakfast: It would usually be either cereal (Frosted Shredded Wheat, Honey Nut Cheerios, Total, Golden Grams. Gotta keep a variety.) If not cereal, then a frozen waffle with strawberry yogurt spread on top.

Sugar on top of sugar on top of sugar. Again, it's insulin, not calories, which you need to control first. Calories come second. What triggers insulin release? Carbohydrates (sugar) do so strongly, protein does so weakly, and fat does so hardly at all. So in order to minimize insulin secretion, you have to minimize carbohydrate intake. This is why the Atkins diet works so well for fat loss (although its allowance of processed foods doesn't make simple 'lo-carbing' via Atkins conducive to total health). This meal alone is sabotaging almost all of your weight loss.

Lunch is usually a salad in the cafeteria. I put a hard boiled egg in along with other vegetables like onions, tomatoes, peppers. Ranch dressing is probably the worst thing in my diet. Usually, a salad is all I eat, unless something good is being served. But that's only once a week. If I don't buy, I make my own sandwich. And let me tell you, they are awesome sandwiches. You start off with buying a whole Italian loaf of bread but instead of cutting it in slices, I only make 3 sandwiches out of the whole thing. You cut the loaf in thirds, and then lengthwise like a sub. I always use turkey or chicken, lettuce, tomato, pickles, mayo, and BBQ.

Salad certainly isn't bad for you, but it's not very filling except in a bulk matter sense, and that does count to some degree as far as satiety signals go in the intestines -- the intestines and stomach respond to the degree of "stretch" caused by food -- but they respond most strongly to the macronutrient chemicals in the food -- the proteins, carbs, and fats. Salad is pretty devoid of any of those in a digestible form, so it's rather calorie-sparse and poor at satiating you. It's just an average choice for a diet food. You could do worse, sure, but you could do a whole lot better.

For a snack, I would eat fries..... but the healthy kind. I buy frozen potatoes (0 grams fat) and bake them. Throw on some salt, garlic, dill weed, salsa and you've got a one awesome snack. I have this a few times a week.

There's nothing healthy about avoiding fats unless you're avoiding excessive polyunsaturated fats (AKA excessive omega-6 fatty acids). The most obvious exception is if you have familial hypercholesterolemia which you probably do not. If there's a VERY high incidence of heart disease and type II diabetes in your family, then perhaps you may have it and avoiding fats could be advisable.

Again, fats are reasonably effective at satiating you. They also do not mobilize insulin, so, ironically, if you want to lose fat, it doesn't hurt to eat fat. And no, just because you eat fat does not mean you will store it as fat. Every cell in your body has the ability to transform fat into carbs or amino acids, although it is primarily the liver's responsibility to do so. It is insulin's responsibility to regulate when dietary fat is retained as stored fat. High insulin (high carb intake) leads to high dietary fat retention and high conversion of dietary carbs to stored fat.

Sometimes I go overboard on the yogurt though. I buy it in the quart size and I can go through the entire thing in a couple of sittings. I like putting granola in it. I also eat a lot of nectarines, apples, bananas.

Sugar, sugar, sugar.

For dinner, it's either Subway, pizza(frozen pizza), stir fry, vegetables, chicken wellington, rotisserie chicken, sometimes chicken chord on bleu goes on sale for a $1.00 apiece so I would eat that. As you can see, I don't eat red meat. Often times I also make myself baked fish sandwiches. I make sure never to eat more than 2 grams saturated fat per serving....except on rare occasions.

Can't really complain here about anything but your fat phobia unless I get picky about bread and processed foods, but I won't go down that rabbit hole.

The only thing that really isn't healthy is dessert. I will scoop maybe 2 Tablespoons of cookie dough onto a plate and microwave it for about 17 seconds. It's so soft and gooey! I love cookie dough.

Me, too, but I don't eat it because I like being lean more than I like eating cookie dough

But the fact is, I don't eat fast food. I don't eat butter, I cook with olive oil, I don't eat red meat(no bacon!!!!!). If I make popcorn, it's on the stovetop with no added fat. I don't eat cheese. I use ½ percent milk. I don't drink pop, coffee, or alcohol. I drink a gallon of water a day. There's nothing more I can cut! That's why I'm so interested in this alternative method with the sensa. I would appreciate any critique on my diet.

Eat butter. The medium chain saturated fatty acids in real butter (not this "vegetable spread" bullshit like Smart Balance) are VERY good for your energy levels, immune system, and satiety. Do NOT cook with olive oil. It is extremely rich in monounsaturated fat (omega-9 AKA oleic acid). This is important because omega-9 (along with omega-3 and omega-6) are HIGHLY reactive in heat and will oxidize to form those dreaded FREE RADICALSSS you hear about everywhere. Cooking with vegetable oils ensures you're getting a nice, big dose of free radicals to ravage your intestines and cardiovascular system. Eat red meat. In fact, make it a staple. There's nothing more satiating, and it is very nutrient-dense. I would discontinue the milk entirely. If you're not getting it from a farm directly, it's probably ultrapasteurized, and that has the same effect as cooking olive oil.

It sounds like you're fixated on "cutting." You mentioned that you feel like there's nothing else you can remove from your diet, yet you still aren't losing weight. Doesn't it seem like the popular paradigm of "calories in = calories out" is sorta bullshit? If it were true, would you not have lost a lot of weight by now instead of having GAINED 10 lbs. since you started exercising and dieting? Calories are secondary to hormones. Energy (calories) do not dictate to your metabolic enzymes what to do with the fats, proteins, and carbs you take in. Instead, it is hormones which tell your cells what to do. There is no calculator in your body that will store a little fat if you are 1 calorie over your "calories out" limit. Instead, there is a balance between competing hormones like insulin and glucagon which determines fat storage. Control this balance, and you control the path your calories take through your metabolism -- do you want fat storage or fat release? If you want storage, chow down on the carbs; if you want release, avoid them.

So yeah, I know a lot of this sounds contrary to conventional wisdom, and it is. Don't let that scare you. Extraordinary methods lead to extraordinary results. I just sorta touched the tip of the tip of the iceberg of my dietary philosophy, so I'm sure I left a lot of things insufficiently explained, so if you aren't convinced yet, I'm not surprised If you have questions or problems with any of my claims, ask away.

Edited February 15, 2013 by ectogemia

[Brandon Strader]

What can you recommend to someone with no money in the bank who has chicken breast and rigatoni and marinara and actually I'm almost out of chicken and rigatoni

[ectogemia]

What can you recommend to someone with no money in the bank who has chicken breast and rigatoni and marinara and actually I'm almost out of chicken and rigatoni

Everything I said in my other post. And also don't buy more rigatoni.

[Soul Splint]

Ecto deserves a round of applause. *Clap clap clap*

[Brandon Strader]

Everything I said in my other post. And also don't buy more rigatoni.

Chicken and marinara would be pretty boring.

I've heard roman noodles are pure carbs

[ectogemia]

Chicken and marinara would be pretty boring.

I've heard roman noodles are pure carbs

OH BRANDON. But seriously, don't buy that fucking rigatoni.

Ecto deserves a round of applause. *Clap clap clap*

Why thank you, sir <3

[OceansAndrew]

Ecto's post was solid. My small addition is if you are not measuring and tracking, you actually don't know how much you are eating. You don't have to do it forever, but a few weeks will actually give you insight to the actual portion sizes you are consuming.

[ectogemia]

Ecto's post was solid. My small addition is if you are not measuring and tracking, you actually don't know how much you are eating. You don't have to do it forever, but a few weeks will actually give you insight to the actual portion sizes you are consuming.

Totally. Actually tracking what you eat for a while to get a real, objective handle on the composition of your "average" daily food intake speaks volumes and would make it EXTREMELY clear where improvements can be made to achieve your goals.

And to clarify, Thin Crust, it's not that calories DON'T matter, it's that they are of SECONDARY IMPORTANCE to your macronutrient (protein, carb, fat) intake ratio. A 2500 Calories/day diet of 100% carbs will NOT lead to the same fat loss/retention as a 2500 Calories/day diet of 100% fat or 100% protein. That is a fact, and it alone is sufficient to debunk "calories in = calories out."

That being said, in light of everything I put forth about insulin leading to fat retention and storage, eating 5000 calories a day of 100% fat -- being that fat does not lead to insulin production -- does not mean you will not gain any fat. I oversimplified it to some degree to keep things short-ish, but the take home point is that if you control the carb-content of your food, you don't really have to concern yourself TOO much with calories unless you have 1-digit body fat % and are trying to cut a little more fat or if you're trying to build muscle quickly. Or if you track your diet and find that you're eating 4000 Calories per day or something a little out there like that.

[XPRTNovice]

ecto - stay away from my wife. She'd fall in love with you for posting what you did.

I love to see people passionately and intelligently deconstructing the common knowledge (the common ignorance). There is such a gigantic hole in modern medicine and the knowledge of the general population when it comes to health and food, propagated by years of listening to doctors that had no clue what they were talking about and listening them tell you "eggs will kill you and butter is bad" on CNN.

Love you guys.

EAT (real) BUTTER.

[Bahamut]

I would dispute some of what was said - most people have a problem of eating way too much period. For most, calorie intake is the primary problem, not the breakdown.

Also it should be mentioned that while it is true that the body can break down fat into energy, it is *not* equivalent to carbs, in particular glucose. It does not get stored as glycogen, which is the body's ready reserve energy, so if you ever plan on doing intense aerobic exercise, a huge amount of fat is a terrible thing. It is why most athletes and even more casual exercisers like runners intake a lot of carbs from sources like pasta or bagels - it is also why any energy source during workouts such as Gatorade, gels, etc. are primarily carb-based. It is also more strenuous for the body to break down fat into energy than it is carbs.

Not to say that fat in itself is bad - some fat is good for the body. There's a lot of more recent misinformation/myths about carbs/protein/fats that has been circulating around though.

It's up to you to figure out the right balance with respect to how strenuous your exercises are.

[Brandon Strader]

Ok ok I get it... don't buy rigatoni... what about penne noodles? Wheat? You can't JUST say no fucking rigatoni without coming back with some kind of substitute!

[Argle]

EAT (real) BUTTER.

I can't, I'm allergic to dairy.

[ectogemia]

I would dispute some of what was said - most people have a problem of eating way too much period. For most, calorie intake is the primary problem, not the breakdown.

Tell me why you think this is. Also, do you have any evidence suggesting most people consume lots and lots of calories, irrespective of the macronutrient ratio?

Also it should be mentioned that while it is true that the body can break down fat into energy, it is *not* equivalent to carbs, in particular glucose.

This is false. In an energetic sense, all the macronutrients are interchangeable with one another. Read more on gluconeogenesis, de novo lipogenesis, beta oxidation, and alpha-ketoglutarate.

[Fat] does not get stored as glycogen, which is the body's ready reserve energy, so if you ever plan on doing intense aerobic exercise, a huge amount of fat is a terrible thing.

Again, false. You are correct in assuming that glycogen is a ready reserve energy, but you are missing the fact that, in an absence of carbohydrates in the diet, glycogen is STILL replenished. Gluconeogenesis is perfectly capable of generating all your body's carbohydrate needs; in fact, there is no such thing as an essential (unable to be produced by the body) carbohydrate. Any carb your body needs can be produced from fat or protein precursors. The important point, and the one you're really speaking to, is that the RATE of glycogen replenishment is greater with direct carb intake instead of waiting on gluconeogenesis to do its work in the liver...

It is why most athletes and even more casual exercisers like runners intake a lot of carbs from sources like pasta or bagels - it is also why any energy source during workouts such as Gatorade, gels, etc. are primarily carb-based.

... and this is important for recovery between workouts. Most athletes perform at an extremely high (read: too high) level which almost requires that they take in a fair amount of carbohydrates. They deplete their energy stores so much that without a high-rate replenishment method like direct carb intake, they would suffer a lot of systemic energy deficits which would not be fun to live with. Gluconeogenesis is not sufficient on its own to keep up with their workload. Being that most people do not perform at this level -- even those who just "work out" -- lots of supplemental carb intake is not usually necessary.

That being said, most people who work out intake a lot of carbs before, during, and after workouts because that's simply what they've been told to do by conventional wisdom. It's not because ONLY carbs are effective at replenishing glycogen. I know of marathoners who take coconut oil or butter with them on runs, both of which are rich in medium-chain fatty acids. Medium chain fatty acids, especially lauric acid, are converted to useful energy VERY quickly in the liver.

And all those workout supplements you mentioned are carb-based because 1) fats aren't water soluble or stable on a shelf for long periods of time, so they wouldn't make a good drink and 2) carbs are cheap and sweet, so people will buy them and companies will profit immensely. There's a societal explanation, not a strong biological one. Again, though, I will grant that carbs replenish muscular and organ energy the fastest, but they are only necessary in high-performance athletes or those seeking to build muscle quickly.

It is also more strenuous for the body to break down fat into energy than it is carbs.

I have no idea what this means.

Not to say that fat in itself is bad - some fat is good for the body. There's a lot of more recent misinformation/myths about carbs/protein/fats that has been circulating around though.

Which myths do you mean?

It's up to you to figure out the right balance with respect to how strenuous your exercises are.

This much is true. If you are sedentery, carbs hardly need to be consumed at all. Scale them up as you exercise with more intensity to ensure your organs are being energized sufficiently.

---

ecto - stay away from my wife. She'd fall in love with you for posting what you did.

I love to see people passionately and intelligently deconstructing the common knowledge (the common ignorance). There is such a gigantic hole in modern medicine and the knowledge of the general population when it comes to health and food, propagated by years of listening to doctors that had no clue what they were talking about and listening them tell you "eggs will kill you and butter is bad" on CNN.

Love you guys.

EAT (real) BUTTER.

The sad part is that I'm 2 years away from being a doctor, and I can tell you that maybe 2 of my 103 classmates have a clue when it comes to nutrition. It's amazing how little doctors are taught about nutrition, and when we are "taught" about it, it's outdated and mis-contextualized information (e.g. "Insulin causes fat deposition, so just eat less fat!" instead of a logical alternative like ("Insulin causes fat deposition, so just eat fewer carbs!). The last person someone should trust about nutrition is a doctor. We just don't have the training. I'm fortunate that I'm super interested in nutrition and biochemistry, so I sought out information myself. It's made all the difference in my life.

Edited February 15, 2013 by ectogemia

[Soul Splint]

The sad part is that I'm 2 years away from being a doctor, and I can tell you that maybe 2 of my 103 classmates have a clue when it comes to nutrition. It's amazing how little doctors are taught about nutrition, and when we are "taught" about it, it's outdated and mis-contextualized information (e.g. "Insulin causes fat deposition, so just eat less fat!" instead of a logical alternative like ("Insulin causes fat deposition, so just eat fewer carbs!). The last person someone should trust about nutrition is a doctor. We just don't have the training. I'm fortunate that I'm super interested in nutrition and biochemistry, so I sought out information myself. It's made all the difference in my life.

I learned this the hard way. Many if not most doctors are indeed clueless about true nutrition. I kept wondering why my eating habits were not causing change the way they *should* have been, as I was following *expert* advice. At least now I know better, although finding out I'd been doing it wrong for so many years made me a wee bit .

[Brandon Strader]

My face when I looked and everything I eat is pure carb. I've probably been eating 700% daily amount of carbs.

[OceansAndrew]

not sure about you guys, but this is how my gym rolls -

[Soul Splint]

Nah, my gym's not half that awesome. If you haven't checked out the UGA swim team's version of the shake, give it a look...it's the most epic by far.

Oh, and remember we were talking about your nifty little scale a while back? I mentioned to my wife that a scale like that would be cool to have, and then guess what I gots for V-Day?

And while I got my gift and was thinking, how cool is this, it struck me how different her reaction would have been if I had gotten her a scale as a present.

[OceansAndrew]

And while I got my gift and was thinking, how cool is this, it struck me how different her reaction would have been if I had gotten her a scale as a present.

That is so funny to me, mainly because I feel the exact same. I'd think it's super amazing and cool, and Deia would be like "NO OVERRIDE".

[Argle]

haha

[XPRTNovice]

Any of you guys do Crossfit? I've always kind of wanted to try, but I'm not really sure I get it.

Do you JUST do crossfit? Working out for 10 minutes a day, while I know it can be exhausting, seems way too little for anyone that wants to get in shape. Yet I know crossfit people are some of the craziest beasts in the world.

Anyway, I'd like to give it a shot, but I don't want to pay 400/month to go to one of those gyms. I'd rather do the WOD on my own.

[Level 99]

I'm joining a gym tonight, I believe. Been almost 3 years since I was a member of a gym, and it's going to hurt me. A lot.

[ectogemia]

Any of you guys do Crossfit? I've always kind of wanted to try, but I'm not really sure I get it.

Do you JUST do crossfit? Working out for 10 minutes a day, while I know it can be exhausting, seems way too little for anyone that wants to get in shape. Yet I know crossfit people are some of the craziest beasts in the world.

Anyway, I'd like to give it a shot, but I don't want to pay 400/month to go to one of those gyms. I'd rather do the WOD on my own.

Yes, generally you just do the Crossfit WOD. They aren't all so short. Also, pure Crossfit is dumb. The injury rate for Crossfitters is astronomical for many reasons, perhaps the chief of which is that the time-based "personal best" system of progression encourages you do sling around heavy weight as quickly as possible, not necessarily as mechanically soundly as possible. And let's not forget that daily intense workouts leave no time for recovery, so there's the very likely outcome of overtraining and chronic fatigue on top of chronic cortisol release which will lead to fat gain AND muscular wasting over time. Only the genetically gifted are the ones who look like beasts after years of Crossfit. Every other loyal Crossfitter I've ever seen looks like they've hardly ever touched any iron. Bad, cortisol. Bad.

So Crossfit is a great idea in theory, I guess (maybe?), but doing it in the pure WOD sense with the ideal Crossfit progression isn't a good plan if you like tendons untorn and bones unbroken. It's an excellent supplemental way to exercise from time to time or to add some variety, but I don't believe it lives up to the hype it has created for itself. Heavy compound lifts with low reps are the way to go for pure brawn with minimal risk of injury, assuming you know how to execute the lifts properly. Tabata-style sprints are the way to go for cardiovascular fitness with minimal risk of injury. Don't believe me? Check out the death knell of steady state cardio. God, I love it when "common knowledge" is actually bullshit.

And now I leave you with perhaps one of my favorite videos ever. Such technique, such creativity.

edit: lol, I'm sorry, but the pull-ups in that video get me evry tiem.

editedit:

Edited February 21, 2013 by ectogemia

[Soul Splint]

Yep, give HIIT (high-intensity interval training) sprints a try. They will end you. (The fat you, that is).

Ecto, I assume tabata sprints are similar.

Random first-world fitness problem: at the rate my legs are growing, I give it another month until my favorite pair of pants become indecent for public usage.

[XPRTNovice]

Just for some background, I'm in pretty good shape, but there are so many people around me that swear by Crossfit (I'm military) and those folks are generally in tip-top shape. I've just never had a chance to try it.

Yeah, it looks goofy (the pull ups are just weird), and if you do it improperly (like the idiot dead lifting 500 pounds or whatever with a giant curled back) you're going to hurt yourself. But I've actually never met anyone that injured themself doing crossfit.

Not that I doubt you, ecto, but have you (or anyone else here) actually ever tried it? There are too many people that I know that swear by it for me to just write it off quite that quickly.

I'm also joining a free-running gym at the end of the month. Imma break myself.

[ectogemia]

Yep, give HIIT (high-intensity interval training) sprints a try. They will end you. (The fat you, that is).

Ecto, I assume tabata sprints are similar.

Random first-world fitness problem: at the rate my legs are growing, I give it another month until my favorite pair of pants become indecent for public usage.

Tabata sprints (developed by a Japanese physiologist named Tabata -- check out his research some time) are a type of HIIT, and studies have shown them to be the most effective protocol out there at the moment. Basically, 20 seconds of maximum effort, 10 seconds of dead rest -- repeat for 8 reps, a total of 4 minutes effort. Yep, 4 minutes of effort twice per week nets you greater VO2 max increases and fat loss than 45 minutes of steady state 5 times per week. Love this stuff.

Haha, awesome about the pants. I can't wait to get back to that feeling. I lost all my gains last year after I succumbed to frustration with a bout of insomnia and accepted a prescription for Ambien like an idiot. 6 weeks later, I was hooked on the shit, and I quit cold turkey and embarked on a month of withdrawal which was INDESCRIBABLY FUCKING INSANE. I lost over 20 pounds by the time I got my mind back and was so bummed out about it, I didn't work out for like 7 or 8 months after that and just kept dropping muscle. I've only recently gotten back into the gym, and a month later, I'm already up 6 pounds. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Just for some background, I'm in pretty good shape, but there are so many people around me that swear by Crossfit (I'm military) and those folks are generally in tip-top shape. I've just never had a chance to try it.

Yeah, it looks goofy (the pull ups are just weird), and if you do it improperly (like the idiot dead lifting 500 pounds or whatever with a giant curled back) you're going to hurt yourself. But I've actually never met anyone that injured themself doing crossfit.

Not that I doubt you, ecto, but have you (or anyone else here) actually ever tried it? There are too many people that I know that swear by it for me to just write it off quite that quickly.

I'm also joining a free-running gym at the end of the month. Imma break myself.

I did Crossfit for a couple of weeks, if that counts

There's nothing special or mystical about it. Its secret is its structure. It tells you exactly what to do and when to do it. On top of that, it has a built-in progress metric in its "for-time" system. If you're the type of person who isn't very proficient in developing your own long-term plans and sticking to them, Crossfit's WODs are a good method to ensure that you'll make some progress. Otherwise, you could plan for yourself a more efficient and safe course to total fitness. There's also the Crossfit culture and community which some people are really into, so that's a perk if it's up your alley.

Also, Crossfit isn't for everyone. My goal at the moment, for instance, is to maximize muscle gain rate being that I already have a low body fat %. Crossfit would be a poor choice for me because it is fairly aerobic, and aerobic adaptation/recovery activates a cell pathway which inhibits muscular strength adaptation/recovery, among cortisol and overtraining concerns. If your goal is fat loss, again, there are more efficient ways to go about losing the fat than Crossfit, but as I said, Crossfit done sensibly will do the job eventually.

I guess the moral of the story is that Crossfit is one approach to fitness, but it certainly isn't the best one in an absolute sense. In a relative sense, though, specifically with respect to those who struggle to develop and maintain a routine, it's a winner. It does the planning and makes the decisions for you and even measures your progress in a simple manner.

Edited February 22, 2013 by ectogemia