Garrett Williamson Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) Link and Mario were like killer powerful in the original. They were dumbed down quite a bit in the later games. Edited July 14, 2013 by Garrett Williamson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleck Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 link is actually towards the bottom of the current SSB tier list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar Man Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) SSB: A crazy experiment by HAL/Sakurai, mostly created to be a fun party game, they didn't even expect it to be popular and at one point weren't even going to release it outside of Japan. The models have lower polygons because the game needed 4 players (including AI and "physics"), items, 2.5D interactive backgrounds, etc. It pushed the N64 pretty hard. Still looks good for an N64 game though. They don't look worse than the Mario Party games actualy, and a LOT more is going on in Smash than Party. SSBM: This game was created pretty much as a more "serious" fighter once the popularity of SSB soared. They improved every aspect of the game, and used it as a tech demo to show off how powerful the GCN was (which was a beast at the time). The GCN could handle a CRAZY amount of polys/textures/etc where these were all weak points of the N64 version. This game definitely showed a dramatic change between the two. This was the GCN's killer app. Very unfortunate that the GCN was released so late and the PS2 was far too ahead so the GCN didn't pick up too many sales by comparison, but MOST people who owned one owned this game or bought it for this game and still play it for this game. SSBB: Wii didn't exactly need more sales, but regardless for this one they pumped up the production values (graphics, music, and even added a lengthy story full of FMV) through the roof and tried to pull in a more casual audience by adding a lot of fluff, silly stuff, and making the controls a bit floater. They also got rid of things the Tourney folks clung onto for Melee to that gave them competitive edge over newer players. Unfortunately of course, Tourney folk usually do not like this game and have stuck with Melee. Game is still great though, and sold well thinks to Wii's massive installed base. It also introduced online play to the series... too bad it was kinda broken :/ SSB4: This is one of those games that need to push Wii U. They are pulling larger outside resources (Namco Bandai) to help create it and hopefully keep production values as high as the previous one. I beleive it has been said this game will somehow meet a happy medium between SSBM and SSBB. I'm sure if the controls are tighted up at all from SSBB and they put back some SSBM mechanics SSB4 will easily replace SSBB in Tourneys. Though I am sure SSBM will still remain lol. Since Namco Bandai is involved with this game, I'm hoping they use some of their netcode and the Online of SSB4 is more stable. The Wii U is certainly a more capable machine than the Wii for online play Edited July 14, 2013 by Crowbar Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirby Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Because the stability of the 3DS's online play is totally not an indication nor relevant to show that Nintendo knows how to make online play better now on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Williamson Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Because the stability of the 3DS's online play is totally not an indication nor relevant to show that Nintendo knows how to make online play better now on their own. ^^^^^^ lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar Man Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) I haven't played Mario Kart 7 yet (just got a 3DS last month), but Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon while really fun is bugged like crap in its online mode. As long as you don't come across a game breaking glitch its super fun and pretty smooth, but when you hit a bug you just have to wait for your team to lose. Happens about 1 out of 10 times I play give or take. So that is my only experience with Nintendo's online service on 3DS :/ Plus a fighting game is a LOT harder to do than a racing game online. I don't remember even Mario Kart Wii having very many issues VS SSBB. What fighting game has Nintendo themselves made on 3DS to prove they've improved? Edited July 14, 2013 by Crowbar Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirby Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Animal Crossing's online is really fun, incredibly stable (provided your internet or the internet of someone you're visiting is). And my experience with Dark Moon's online didn't yield any bugs like you mentioned. Mario Kart 7, when it first came out, was really fun. Played it many times with OCR folks around the world; no issues there (except when it didn't connect). So while it's not perfect, it's still a hell of a lot better than it was on the Wii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowbar Man Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 (edited) Animal Crossing was pretty stable on the DS/Wii too though from what I recall.. there isn't much going on anyway Fighters are a completely different story. They are notoriously hard to do online. Smash only increases the difficulty because of 4 players and all the crazy stuff going on the screen. Others have tried just doing regular fighters through multiple generations (like Namco Bandai) and have finally got it right. Nintendo has only tried it once... not so good. Edited July 14, 2013 by Crowbar Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid wind Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Link and Mario were like killer powerful in the original. They were dumbed down quite a bit in the later games. Melee looked fine and Brawl was more the fault of the art direction trying to be more realistic, where Mario and Zelda have always looked best with a more stylized look. Skyward Sword's influence on smash 4 will be a glorious thing. I'm also noticing that Mario is getting angrier and angrier with each passing Smash Bros... They also got rid of things the Tourney folks clung onto for Melee to that gave them competitive edge over newer players. Unfortunately of course, Tourney folk usually do not like this game and have stuck with Melee. This was the idea but I don't think it actually worked, top players in Brawl are incredibly consistent in defeating lower and mid level players and if anything it actually seems -harder- to improve because you have to do so at a completely fundamental level, aside from a few things like ice climbers death grabs there isn't anything you can practice that makes you significantly more dangerous. The minimized tech skill required to play the game puts an even higher emphasis on things that may not even be trainable(reflexes, thought processing speed, memory, clutchness etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirby Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Animal Crossing was pretty stable on the DS/Wii too though from what I recall.. there isn't much going on anyway Pretty sure that Mario Kart 7's relatively smooth play is a good indicator of handling a lot of action going on with lots of players on a large area (has to keep track of the entire course in that instead of just one screen). I mean, yeah, Namco could definitely bring a much better system to the table, all I'm saying is that the framework Nintendo has since laid out for the 3DS ain't a bad place to build from. I'm also noticing that Mario is getting angrier and angrier with each passing Smash Bros... I'm-a here to eat-a raviolis and kick-a butt-a, and I'm all-a outta raviolis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiowar Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 melee allowed a degree of control and expressiveness with characters that is, in my experience, unmatched. it also built on the customizability of 64, allowing for greater "world building". brawl had a much greater depth of features, but severely nerfed the depth of the playing experience. it was a fun game, but rarely anything more than that. the ssbm evo stream broke records today tho, something like 134k viewers. clearly there is still love for the game. i dont expect the developers to "cater" to the competitive crowd, but i hope smash 4 is the best game it can possibly be, something inclusive and open to all types of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptazza Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 melee allowed a degree of control and expressiveness with characters that is, in my experience, unmatched. it also built on the customizability of 64, allowing for greater "world building". brawl had a much greater depth of features, but severely nerfed the depth of the playing experience. it was a fun game, but rarely anything more than that. the ssbm evo stream broke records today tho, something like 134k viewers. clearly there is still love for the game. i dont expect the developers to "cater" to the competitive crowd, but i hope smash 4 is the best game it can possibly be, something inclusive and open to all types of play. They've taken out tripping, it'll be fine competitive I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiowar Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 They've taken out tripping, it'll be fine competitive I'm sure. tripping is just scratching the surface. i mean, its definitely a metaphor for the philosophy of brawl, which was restricting movement, the game literally punishing the player for playing as much as people hate on things like directional airdodging/wavedashing (among other techniques in melee), they were part of a larger set of movement options and quirks which made melee unique. brawl went so decisively in another direction, i dont see the things that made competitive melee possible coming back. i think if smash 4 does end up having a competitive scene it would likely be a very different game from brawl and melee, which i dont think is a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirby Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 from what i heard, they had multiple air dashes already in the engine for smash 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid wind Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 tripping is just scratching the surface. i mean, its definitely a metaphor for the philosophy of brawl, which was restricting movement, the game literally punishing the player for playing This is what I took out of it, as bad as tripping near an ice climbers is, it's not the worst thing ever on it's own-but it even existing spoke volumes about sakurai's design philosophy for that game, so I am hoping that it's removal is also part of a larger philosophy shift Air dodges...as much as some of my melee playing friends have disagreed, I don't think it makes a big difference in offline play, bad connection wifi is the only place where you don't get punished for air dodging repeatedly for no reason anyway. Melee's air dodge allowing wavedashing/landing to occur to me is the most significant part of that, the crazy movement options of Melee are a lot of what makes it so entertaining. While I certainly don't expect that to return, I'd like to see the ground mobility in Smash 4 opened up a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Pizza Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Melee looked fine and Brawl was more the fault of the art direction trying to be more realistic, where Mario and Zelda have always looked best with a more stylized look. Humbug. I'm also noticing that Mario is getting angrier and angrier with each passing Smash Bros... He's angry because he's still yet to receive a neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Williamson Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Melee looked fine and Brawl was more the fault of the art direction trying to be more realistic, where Mario and Zelda have always looked best with a more stylized look. Skyward Sword's influence on smash 4 will be a glorious thing.I'm also noticing that Mario is getting angrier and angrier with each passing Smash Bros... Ya know, the art direction with Brawl wasn't an issue for me. It was just the fact that it didn't seem like a major improvement from Melee. Realistic was actually really neat for me. I enjoyed it. Mario in that realistic tone was really quite awesome. Ya know what, I've noticed that with Mario too. Odd. Just went and played SSB with a whole bunch of my friends tonight. Some of them had never played it before (they had either played Brawl or Melee) and I think all of them concluded that it was a better game than Brawl and came close with Melee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chernabogue Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I think Brawl had a "Twilight Princess" approach of all characters in terms of design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salluz Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I think Brawl had a "Twilight Princess" approach of all characters in terms of design. Pretty much. The 64 models could stab you in the eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Williamson Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I'm looking back at that picture I posted. Mario's hands in the N64 version are just so glorious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Pizza Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 N64 Link looks like a souped-up Mii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnWake Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 Nothing will ever beat this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Williamson Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Polygon count: 123% epic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chernabogue Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 No Story Mode: WHAT THE HELL NINTENDO??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Williamson Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 There's no story mode? Tiny bit stupid, Nintendo. I never cared for story mode, but seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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