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Liontamer

"Has Video Game Music Lost Its Way?"

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Not to mention the fact that "The Makers Overworld" uses a very minimal amount of notes in the entire song and still manages to be my favorite battle song (I heard it merely once at my brother's house and got it stuck in my head, "no hooks" my ass).

Just gonna drop this here:

(melody at :30)

@haters: These all have very strong melodies, and I didn't even try to link the rest of them on the soundtrack. If you want to call these generic, please find at least one example of a film or game score that sounds anything like these.

Because Darksiders II is the most unique soundtrack I have ever heard. It doesn't even sound like Kyd's other work.

I literally just explained this it's called

MARKET SATURATION.

An absolute value of 50 carries a different statistical significance when comparing populations with both different sizes and circumstances.

Top 50 of an era when only the big names could afford and had the development tech to create video games is completely different than top 50 of an era where games have literally become a manufactured commercialized commodity. There are literally thousands more games now in this generation than there were in older generations, it's no surprise that there's a lot more bad/uninteresting music coming out for them. It's almost common sense if you stopped to think about it for a few seconds.

Like I said already, and you agreed, the problem is modern games, not specifically music for these games.

I'd be surprised if you found more than 2 or 3 people in this thread who actually said that.

maybe all that is true, but Frank Zappa still pwns the shit out of Darksiders II

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the majority of people here will
purely because of all the 8-bit sounds in it. which is kind of the point of everyone here saying 'it's not the music it's you'

You're deliberately trolling here. Keep ignoring all the points everyone have been making, I'm sure it's the best way to bring this discussion further.

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You're deliberately trolling here. Keep ignoring all the points everyone have been making, I'm sure it's the best way to bring this discussion further.

no not really at all because i'm right.

you're deliberately minimodding here, keep ignoring the rules of the forum, i'm sure it's the best way to bring this discussion further

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you two are just a delight.

it really matters over whether or not the game will be successful enough as well. famous games will have famous songs.

Stupid obvious theories that are correct but totally pointless, by Garrett Williamson.

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the connection is that I'm speaking the obvious.

Except it's not because there are plenty of counter examples to your "stupid obvious theory that is correct but pointless"

Edited by Neblix

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http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2014/01/24/has-video-game-music-lost-its-way/71190/

The piece by Alex Carlson mentioned Journey as being a poor representation of modern game music, implying that a failure with it was the soundtrack not having the same character of old-school video game music, e.g. strong hooks. Couldn't disagree more, given that Journey, much like Super Mario World for example, was a soundtrack that used variations of a common motif pretty often.

@konec0 on Twitter mentioned that the article had a large nostalgia bias toward older material, which was the initial impression I had as well. They also mentioned that much of today's game music is meant to serve a more immersive role, and felt it was wrong to judge it without taking the purpose it serves into account, which was another good point.

Just as classic video games had a lot of unmemorable music, so do modern games. But there are plenty of titles with strong, memorable music in the last 15 years or so, not just Halo, Portal, Skyrim, Shadow of the Colossus and Bastion, but Katamari Damacy, PaRappa the Rapper, Super Meat Boy, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Perfect Dark, Shenmue, Metal Gear Solid, Metroid Prime, Okami, Phantasy Star Online, Ragnarök Online, Viva Piñata, Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future, Guilty Gear, ChuChu Rocket!, Breath of Fire IV, Capcom vs. SNK, SaGa Frontier 2, LocoRoco, Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike, and more stuff I either don't recall or just haven't heard of.

It's more difficult for any game music to gain recognition with so many more games out now, as well as other forms of entertainment to pay attention to, but I don't believe that needs to be held against modern game music.

Anyway, just sharing some thoughts. What did you think about this article? Debate away!

Throw at least the first Bayonetta into it (Not sure about 2's music but if its anything like the first....)

I can honestly say despite my problems with the games themselves Defiance and Rift have excellent music.

ANd while i'm at it. If anyone is NOT including the mass effect TRILOGY on a music standpoint they need their heads examined. I personally have several soundtracks from EACH game on my spotify playlists and i still hold Omega Relay Music Sequence as possibly the best suite composed in videogaming. (From jumpdrive to End Run.) And the SR2 reveal music STILL sends chills up the spines of listeners. I think this guy has not evolved his hearing the more i think it out.

Edited by Hyperion5182

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I'd also like to just drop this off here:

http://bestnestracks.captaintortilla.com/results/index.php?back=115

This is just a small sampling of the best NES tracks... for those of you who seem to think there is only a handful of good NES tunes for some reason, and the "people remember it being good music because they are nostalgic for it" :/

And here's the full list here:

http://bestnestracks.captaintortilla.com/results/complete_list.txt

Some of my favorite ones (from Godzilla - Monster of Monsters!) didn't even start to show up until #189, and one of the better ones isn't until #1283.

So yeah, there isn't only just a handful of good NES track. I would say that the majority of NES tracks are good. Yes, there were limitations, but limitations breed creativity. When you have all of the technological tools at your disposal, you don't need to be creative to make something sound good.

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So yeah, there isn't only just a handful of good NES track. I would say that the majority of NES tracks are good. Yes, there were limitations, but limitations breed creativity.

No one in this thread ever said otherwise. :-|

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And here's the full list here:

http://bestnestracks.captaintortilla.com/results/complete_list.txt

Some of my favorite ones (from Godzilla - Monster of Monsters!) didn't even start to show up until #189, and one of the better ones isn't until #1283.

So yeah, there isn't only just a handful of good NES track. I would say that the majority of NES tracks are good. Yes, there were limitations, but limitations breed creativity. When you have all of the technological tools at your disposal, you don't need to be creative to make something sound good.

while i generally support this, i have to confess that going through the top 100 made me realise that i've done enough 8 bit appreciation over the last decade.

i loved discovering all the great NES OSTs before my time (lacking an older sibling, i'm of the SNES generation). loved trying out tracking on gameboy and famitracker. loved all that.

but to be honest, i've grown a bit sick of the 8bit soundscape and its mannerisms.

when musicians today are inspired by the old classic soundtracks, i hope they channel less of that into sounding 'retro cool', and rather take that simple 'less is more' concept with them, thinking up their own sets of limitation to push their abilities the hardest.

Arcanum is a great example for what i mean. doing string quartet for a game made it completely unique at the time.

Edited by Nase

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If we saw more, in AAA, turn-based RPG's, side scrollera, isometric games (Pokemon still has good music, surprised no one said that), we would see the catchy music comeback, because it's appropriate there. Of course this won't ever happen.

Speaking of, I've heard the Bravely Default soundtrack is pretty kickin.. also, can't wait to see what happens with the FFT guy's (Yasumi Matsuno) Unsung Story if he successfully gets the FFT music guy (Hitoshi Sakimoto) involved. :)

the majority of people here will think
purely because of all the 8-bit sounds in it. which is kind of the point of everyone here saying 'it's not the music it's you'

Actually, that song is pretty bad. It is completely depending on its retro sound fx to make itself interesting. The parts that break into an actual song are almost passable, but then it quickly goes "OH BOY NOSTALGIA". Not a good piece.

An absolute value of 50 carries a different statistical significance when comparing populations with both different sizes and circumstances.

Top 50 of an era when only the big names could afford and had the development tech to create video games is completely different than top 50 of an era where games have literally become a manufactured commercialized commodity. There are literally thousands more games now in this generation than there were in older generations, it's no surprise that there's a lot more bad/uninteresting music coming out for them. It's almost common sense if you stopped to think about it for a few seconds.

Like I said already, and you agreed, the problem is modern games, not specifically music for these games.

More or less we are pretty much saying the same thing just at different angles. Kinda like a chicken and the egg type situation.

No one in this thread ever said otherwise.

There were quite a few posts on the "Pro modern music" side (not that there are really sides per se, new or old we all want good game music) that hinted as nostalgia as the primary source of why people liked older game music

Nase:

Yeah there is definitely more to game music than 8bit.. even the people throwing the whole "its nostalgia" thing seem to be focusing on 8bit limitations, like the only games/music they listened to WERE their nostalgic 8bit games :/

Game music has been a wonderful rainbow of styles and tastes. It still is really, you just can't look to mainstream stuff for everything (same as regular music, but we're not that bad yet). There is still amazing stuff coming out, it just feels that for the most part, due to sound design or whatever you want to argue a counter point, music is put to the side. That in essence is the root cause of the whole discussion.

Edited by Crowbar Man

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More or less we are pretty much saying the same thing just at different angles. Kinda like a chicken and the egg type situation.

The difference is that I'm blaming the game market in general while you (or at least, the article, which you seem to support) are blaming game composers and are trying to say that there's less good music now than there was back then because composers are getting lazy.

What I'm saying is that there isn't less, there's actually more now than there was back then, but relatively speaking there is a lot more bad than good. Remember, there is a difference between ratios and absolute values.

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The difference is that I'm blaming the game market in general while you (or at least, the article, which you seem to support) are blaming game composers and are trying to say that there's less good music now than there was back then because composers are getting lazy.

What I'm saying is that there isn't less, there's actually more now than there was back then, but relatively speaking there is a lot more bad than good. Remember, there is a difference between ratios and absolute values.

more cookie cutter themed games > more successful cookie cutter game composers.

course the market is where it starts, but if there's no clear feedback demanding more risks taken artistically (dropping sales), the bland game makers and composers increase in numbers.

which means more lazy composers.

the ratio thing is obvious.

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semantics, we're talking big picture here.

old players know how it works for them and are more consistent than anything. of course they aren't getting lazy collectively.

nothing changes a game more than new players, except when the new ones mostly stick to old tried and true strategies. that causes the whole thing to water down over time.

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That's true, and my main point I want to get across here is that the problem with game music is the type and amount of games themselves, not necessarily the attitude of the game audio industry.

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The thread kinda died down, but I wanted to post the Dante's Inferno OST because it is amazing. I've never heard anything like it. I listen to it loud like it's metal.

Yes, it's awesome, I really like it, though I never got a chance to play the game.

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I'm glad this generated some discussion, but...

Well, in my opinion, it just kinda seemed like clickbait.

  • "Has X lost its way??"
  • "Is this the end of Y??"
  • "Top 10 reasons Z is doomed!!"

The idea of measuring whether VGM has "lost its way" has only become increasingly preposterous, because the games industry is now so diverse, segmented, and prolific that even attempting to take its temperature is a gargantuan & highly subjective task.

Also: No, it hasn't :-D

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Well, in my opinion, it just kinda seemed like clickbait.

  • "Has X lost its way??"

Also: No, it hasn't :-D

Yeah dude, I'm with you 500%.

It's like this scene from Billy Madison, just replace puppy with VGM:

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