OCR03012 - Sonic Adventure 2 'Graveyard Theory'

[djpretzel]

What did you think? Post your opinion of this ReMix.

[timaeus222]

This kinda sounded more funny than scary.

[SuperiorX]

Spooky scary skeletons! I love this track and I love the ZR! Keep it up you guys!

[DaMonz]

Hah! I'm generally not that much of a rap fan, but I love this! Great job guys!

[BONKERS]

:lmassoff::lmassoff: So good!

[Black_Doom]

First SA2 ReMix in... 10 years???? Are you kidding me? Anyway, this is just awesome. Spooky, yet groovy, fitting for a Halloween party. Good work, guys!

[OverClocked PodCast]

Heyyyyy, it's the Zone Runners! I have a soft spot in my heart for Hunnid-P's fast-and-furious-but-trying-a-little-too-hard echidna rap, and I love this goofy, stylish take on it. One of the best songs from you guys yet!

[Crulex]

Oh my god, hahahaha! I love this so much, guys! As a big fan of all three ReMixers separately, it truly is a treat to hear all three combine to deliver this smooth and spooky rap arrangement of Pumpkin Hill. Also loved the addition of some spooky scary skeletons at the end. Awesome ReMix, I'm going to be enjoying for quite a lot time.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Crulex

[Salluz]

I am going to show this song to Hunnid-P. Once he gets out, he'll hear and appreciate it.

Go on ahead and kill me, but:

Pros:

• Halloween.
  
• The beat was good.
  
• Some surprising instances in the song made it interesting, like some of the fx vocals.
  
• 2nd chorus was pretty creative.
  

Cons:

• Those pizzis were a poor choice for that beginning melody, which was a piano, originally.
  
• Song transitions could have been smoother.
  
• Hunnid-P had more character. His vocals were more dynamic and passionate. You can hear it even in the rise and fall of his pitch.
  
• The rest of the fx vocals seemed unnecessary.
  
• Hunnid-P's lyrics were way more into the context of Pumpkin Hill, as if he was pumping out lyrics subconsciously while watching/playing it. Adding verses that weren't there originally would win you some serious bonus points, but honestly... mostly, though not entirely weak and meaningless.+
  
• I know that you guys aren't Sega Studios, but the quality of this one needed to be closer to the original.
  

+There were more things that could have been mentioned about that level, or Knuckles in specific:

• Shovel Claw upgrade.
  
• The G.U.N enemies.
  
• The three general areas: Pumpkin Mountain, Church Mountain, and Ghost Train Mountain.
  
• The need/use of Knuckles' sunglasses, which help you see the invisible. Useful for Hard Mode (one of the emeralds being above the church, but it can't be accessed unless you wear the sunglasses and see the secret, which sends you into the air toward the emerald once you see it).
  
• Big the Cat's random and unwanted appearance, because really, nobody loves Big the Cat.
  
• Ring balloons.
  
• The scene implies that it's in the same district as Sky Rail, Shadow's stage.
  

It wasn't a serious track (after all, it's a remix of a video game rap song for Knuckles in a Sonic game released during Halloween on Overclocked Remix many years after the original was recorded), but a different execution would have been nice.

First SA2 ReMix in... 10 years???? Are you kidding me? Anyway, this is just awesome. Spooky, yet groovy, fitting for a Halloween party. Good work, guys!

Yeah, Bronx-Rican was the last SA2 remixer. I tried to do a couple but I wasn't very knowledgeable nor financed enough to pull it off. Let's make a trend.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Salluz

[halc]

I typically just ignore stuff like this, but if you're gonna try and make some in-depth analysis of my music and creative choices with a list of vague, unhelpful comments thinly veiled as criticisms on a public review thread, then be prepared to elaborate because I'm going to defend myself.

• Those pizzis were a poor choice for that beginning melody, which was a piano, originally.
  

Why were they a bad choice? Because they weren't a piano? Obviously the original was a piano, but I didn't want to use a piano, I wanted my song to be different. That's what we do around here.

Song transitions could have been smoother.

Which ones? What was un-smooth about them? Obviously nothing is ever perfect - by that measure all song transitions ever written 'could have' been smoother. But since you made a whole bullet point out of it, I'd like to know what you particularly think is wrong with our transitions?

Hunnid-P had more character. His vocals were more dynamic and passionate. You can hear it even in the rise and fall of his pitch.

I'm not gonna compare any of us to Hunnid P, that's not the point of this song. Each of us gave it our all on this song, so I guess we just don't stand up to your standard.

The rest of the fx vocals seemed unnecessary.

I don't know what 'fx vocals' means. Are you talking about the robotic background vocals at certain parts? If so, okay, but I disagree. I think they give the song a ton of extra character.

Hunnid-P's lyrics were way more into the context of Pumpkin Hill, as if he was pumping out lyrics subconsciously while watching/playing it. Adding verses that weren't there originally would win you some serious bonus points, but honestly... mostly, though not entirely weak and meaningless.+

Well, we were not writing a song about gliding around pumpkin hill collecting emerald shards with a digging tool. We were not setting out to make a new background music for pumpkin hill. We really didn't even want to use any of Hunnid P's original lyrics in the first place, but since the original song had them, and the general perspective on vocals in VGM is so weird and fucked up, we figured people are gonna expect to hear them, so we kept them. It seems like you have this grand concept in mind of an updated version of Pumpkin Hill that has the exact same feel and vibe as before but 'enhanced' - that is not what we set out to do here. This song fits into OUR context as the ZR, and that's all that matters to us.

And I have no idea what that last sentence means. I read that to mean that you thought our new verses were 'weak and meaningless' but I may be interpreting whatever you're trying to say incorrectly.

I know that you guys aren't Sega Studios, but the quality of this one needed to be closer to the original.

Okay, so basically, you want us to lower the quality of our mix. I mean, the original Pumpkin Hill is great, but it's no secret that it's produced with cheap samples, rigidly sequenced and deceptively repetitive. The only thing in the original song that is of a modern quality is Hunnid P's vocals. I think we've done this song a favor and given it a whole new life. Again, I don't know what you want from us - it's OBVIOUS to me at this point that you have a vision for how this song should be remixed and we didn't give you that. But these comments are just thinly veiled insults really. Nothing on here is helpful at all on a musical level. It's just you telling us how you wanted us to make the song, which from what I can glean basically a carbon copy of the original with maybe updated piano sample and new vocals that do nothing but self-reference Knuckles-related things for 4 and a half minutes.

It wasn't a serious track (after all, it's a remix of a video game rap song for Knuckles in a Sonic game released during Halloween on Overclocked Remix many years after the original was recorded), but a different execution would have been nice.

The lyrics may have aired on the humorous side, but we took this song just as seriously as any other we've ever made. It may have been crafted on a whim, but we poured just as much passion and inspiration and detail and care and love that we do to all of our tracks. If you want a different execution, feel free to do it yourself.

Edited November 5, 2014 by halc

[DiGi Valentine]

First SA2 ReMix in... 10 years????

Good god, i didn't even notice that! XD ...seriously, the last person to hit up SA2 was The Bronx himself! That's insane.

Man, i'm really glad we did cover this song now. It's not only been the ZR's first official posted debut at OCR or halc's first vocal posted debut at OCR but it's also been the first SA2 remex in ten years.

Awesome!! Totally unintentional, but awesome!

Everything you just said

Yeah, Hunnid P is doing time for a gun-charge. Hopefully he'll be a bit more open-minded about our remix than you've been because i feel you're judging us a tiny liiiittle bit unfairly here.

We kept the original lyrics in the song out of homage and that i know people would want to hear them, otherwise i would have personally liked to have re-written the lyrics entirely. But i'm not a killjoy and recognize some people want the old bars in there, so we left them.

Why didn't we rap more as Knuckles? Simple. We're not Knuckles. We're the Zone Runners with already established personalities, so we used our own for our own new verses. Knuckles himself, that's reserved to people like Dredd Fox, Hunnid P, The Bronx Rican (who portrayed Knux here at OCR ten years ago), so it wouldn't be right if we built off of the echidna.

Instead, we decided to build off of the Halloween mood itself by referencing vampires, zombies, frankenstein, werewolves and all that good s**t from our own perspectives visiting Pumpkin Hill.

That being said, i get the feeling you are a very big fan of the original song and, hey, all the more to you. Enjoy what you enjoy.

All this boils down to is the fact that you ain't feeling our version more than the source. Done.

I'm personally really pleased with the response our version has gotten and i thank everybody who has been bumping it, reblogging it on Tumblr, retweeting it on Twitter and sharing it on Facebook. The support has been fantastic and with that i can feel it when i say i think we done a good job here.

Not ego inflated, not 'trying to out-do anybody or the original', i just feel we've done the song a lot of justice.

It's all good, either way.

[Garrett Williamson]

Dang, had a lot of potential in this one. Personally, not gonna lie, I was disappointed. Everything is too quantized and perfect. I loved Jordanius's part; the chorus is both funny and enjoyable.

But with any music, *especially* this type of hip hop, it just can't be that perfectly quantized. It should be "out of the pocket" if that makes sense. It grooves so much harder when everything is a little off. You got this shuffle goin but when it sounds robotic, you just lose some of that groove magic.

I did enjoy DiGi's rapping, once again, though. Enjoyable lyrics.

[Salluz]

Note: this isn't another 'I didn't get what I wanted' rant. I can make my own music. The nature is rather a request that roots itself in higher expectations from good musicians.

We kept the original lyrics in the song out of homage and that i know people would want to hear them, otherwise i would have personally liked to have re-written the lyrics entirely. But i'm not a killjoy and recognize some people want the old bars in there, so we left them.

Why didn't we rap more as Knuckles? Simple. We're not Knuckles. We're the Zone Runners with already established personalities, so we used our own for our own new verses. Knuckles himself, that's reserved to people like Dredd Fox, Hunnid P, The Bronx Rican (who portrayed Knux here at OCR ten years ago), so it wouldn't be right if we built off of the echidna.

Instead, we decided to build off of the Halloween mood itself by referencing vampires, zombies, frankenstein, werewolves and all that good s**t from our own perspectives visiting Pumpkin Hill.

That being said, i get the feeling you are a very big fan of the original song and, hey, all the more to you. Enjoy what you enjoy.

All this boils down to is the fact that you ain't feeling our version more than the source. Done.

You got it, but to clarify, the real reason for critique is to express faith in your skill. Bringing up the original is comparison, which will get done because that is always what will be done when you make a remix. Always. Honestly, the rapping is mainly what made the original that phenomenal.

I typically just ignore stuff like this, but if you're gonna try and make some in-depth analysis of my music and creative choices with a list of vague, unhelpful comments thinly veiled as criticisms on a public review thread, then be prepared to elaborate because I'm going to defend myself.

Can't blame you, but... relax.

Why were they a bad choice? Because they weren't a piano? Obviously the original was a piano, but I didn't want to use a piano, I wanted my song to be different. That's what we do around here.

It can be whatever instrument. It doesn't have to be the original, or even like it. In my opinion, the pizzi was meh. Pay no attention, please.

Which ones? What was un-smooth about them? Obviously nothing is ever perfect - by that measure all song transitions ever written 'could have' been smoother. But since you made a whole bullet point out of it, I'd like to know what you particularly think is wrong with our transitions?

In songs, you have major and minor transitions. The major ones, of course, are obvious changes, and the minor ones are subtle. A good idea would be to have small buildups and falls of percussion in the background when you are getting ready to change. As for the tones, same. To be more specific about the tones, the scheme of dropping some and including new ones is essential; likewise to rhythm, a precursor of a certain theme acts as hint; the following of that tone could be replaced by another instrument, become less constant, or be dropped altogether. Heck, bring more of its constant, and work from there.

A lot of the changes in the song were good, like that rolling synth bass at the end of certain musical phrases, but the ringing synth that jumped in at the chorus was like... where did that come from?

I liked that little break before the second verse. What was that... a key change, or something? [shrug] it was good.

I'm not gonna compare any of us to Hunnid P, that's not the point of this song. Each of us gave it our all on this song, so I guess we just don't stand up to your standard.

This ain't about who's better than who, but about what Zone Runners can do, and that is a lot.

Well, yes, you did a remix, not some cover. I don't hear a lack of effort; there was PLENTY of that! Rather, what's being sought is the skill of expression. When I speak of what Hunnid was doing, I was talking about character. For example: "I'm hearing someone saying "You a chicken, don't be scared!"" The part of when he tells us that he hears someone, he sounds narrative, and then he repeats what he heard. That recall sounded sincere, like we're being told that he was getting mocked and couldn't figure out who. Paranormal? This is a place roaming with spirits. That leads to "had to be the wind cuz nobody wasn't there", confirming in narration that he came across some paranormal shit and said to himself "fuck it" cuz it's a haunted place and he had a mission, despite.

Simpler: reciting lyrics versus telling a story with your expression. You're not Hunnid-P, but give us that expression! The Zone Runners are going to do it how the Zone Runners will, but there's no limit. You guys can do anything.

Well, we were not writing a song about gliding around pumpkin hill collecting emerald shards with a digging tool. We were not setting out to make a new background music for pumpkin hill. We really didn't even want to use any of Hunnid P's original lyrics in the first place, but since the original song had them, and the general perspective on vocals in VGM is so weird and fucked up, we figured people are gonna expect to hear them, so we kept them. It seems like you have this grand concept in mind of an updated version of Pumpkin Hill that has the exact same feel and vibe as before but 'enhanced' - that is not what we set out to do here. This song fits into OUR context as the ZR, and that's all that matters to us.

Who said that it had to be the same as before (but yet enhanced)? It's a remix! I don't run shit; I was just really disappointed because of something that I perceived to be a distraction to what would otherwise be a great remix.

And I have no idea what that last sentence means. I read that to mean that you thought our new verses were 'weak and meaningless' but I may be interpreting whatever you're trying to say incorrectly.

Let me start with the positive: DiGi and you can rap. Secondly, I'm going to ease on down about the 'strength' of the lyrics. They were decent.

As for the lyrics:

I ain't gonna let it get to me, I'm just gonna hang

Down in Pumpkin Hill because I need my next drank

I tried a pint of vampire blood and I liked it

'Cuz they said just a drop would make me go Hyper

And now I'm walking like Frankenstein

Because I need another taste of that fine red wine

Lain silver chains and pulled fangs

Without pain, drained veins and a staked brain

What? Are my raps too violent?

Yo, I didn't kill the guy, just keeping him quiet

That you can log as a merciful attack

The True Death reserved for the guy who calls bars raps

(Ding dong) trick or treat, its'a me, halc, yessiree and I'm a doctor this year,

So please, why don't ya hand over all the candy

And we won't have to show you our graveyard theory

The beat abstractions were killer during this verse.

The first half was some Halloween poetry with the wine/blood assimilation. Okay, but if the chorus and a reserved verse both from the original serve the purpose of describing the endeavors of the great Knux, then... what's going on? Is Knuckles a hemo-holic vampire now? No, but we get confused because we think that this is about Knuckles, but it's not. That's not my fault if I get lost because I heard a transit from Knux to yourselves in a song that seems to be about Knuckles because of the chorus, mainly, but really, you did something for the fans. I am sure that they are pleased.

Second verse:

Yo, Dr. halc. Let me clear out some of these corpses, bredda.

I ain't gonna let it get to me, I'm just gonna chill

Down at Pumpkin Hill, I'm gonna keep it hella real

Serving hot soup, force feed beyond your fill

when you wanna test me but you lack any skill.

Bloodsuckers wanna hunt me in the night,

but their fangs only talk, they never really bite.

Take a stake or two and drive it through your chest in one strike.

Now, what was it about me you didn't really like?

Get stalked by the undead

so I got 12 gauges aimed at his dumb head.

Turn pumpkins from orange to blood red.

Grab your jack-o-lanterns, here comes the sunset.

(Aaoo-oo-oooo)

Howl at the moon.

Whispers in the air, I'm coming for you soon.

Yeah. I got a graveyard theory

that says you'll be buried before you get anywhere near me.

The sounds and music that were placed in this part were killer.

As for the second half, it's still fitting. In fact, more interesting because it went in harder on the ruthlessness of the rapper as well as Knuckles. At first, I thought that this was still about Knuckles, except more awesome, actually. It's about something else, but it's still awesome.

The funky sounds and (auto-tune?) on the singing at the latter/end of the song were funky. Stankin'.

Okay, so basically, you want us to lower the quality of our mix.

I mean, the original Pumpkin Hill is great, but it's no secret that it's produced with cheap samples, rigidly sequenced and deceptively repetitive.

True. It sounded good, but still.

The only thing in the original song that is of a modern quality is Hunnid P's vocals.

Ok, now I'm not confused because a mix with lesser quality is the last thing that I would ask for. If I wanted bad hiphop, I would go listen to

or someone awful. Just to say, anything good in the song being linked that you hear, I hear, but we can agree that... if that's is what I want to hear, then that's what I'll go for.

Am I doing wrong here?

I think we've done this song a favor and given it a whole new life. Again, I don't know what you want from us - it's OBVIOUS to me at this point that you have a vision for how this song should be remixed and we didn't give you that.

Nothing on here is helpful at all on a musical level. It's just you telling us how you wanted us to make the song, which from what I can glean basically a carbon copy of the original with maybe updated piano sample and new vocals that do nothing but self-reference Knuckles-related things for 4 and a half minutes.

You did bring it new life. Thank you. However, am I requesting something similar to the original, or something with heightened skill and expression that comes from you? The best of you, or a fanboy's wet dream?

Do note: I'm not being serious in reply to the above. I'm NOT trying to flame here, but I could swear almost that I'm being flamed here. Honest to God, or maybe I need to take a good nap or get some fresh air. Again, my reply won't be serious, but one serious thing that I have to say is that I am starting to question my sanity after reading the previous two quotes (with the line about me throwing pseudo-technical insults at you extracted from it) because I could be pulling a rabbit from a hat, if there is a hat.

Two things come to mind, or three. Here's the first:

"You had an idea of the song, which really wasn't an idea after all because it would be more like the original cuz you're a fanboy who misses the original, and so it'd be pretty clever for me to say that as a dis to the fact that you liked the original (though I liked it too, or at least enough to remix it), which means (wait, that makes no sense; should I mind too that this guy could find fault with the original? Well, regardless, I'll just use his liking of the original against him (because he picked ours apart). My reply is not only insulting but deliberately flawed, and so it renders my reply offensive, but nevermind) ANYWAY, so yeah, suck Hunnid-P's dick you fanboy! Go take a MIDI and slap some cool instruments on it, then record yourself trying to sound like Hunnid-P!

But those comments are just thinly veiled insults really.

Second thought: "I don't know what you want, but since you do, why don't you try it your way without saying much about mine? Nothing is wrong with mine".

Third: take the straw man first thought of mine and balance it with the clear and sincere message of the second thought. It'll reciprocate and turn into a legitimate point laced with dickish statements. That's what you're doing. Just keep it real, padna.

The lyrics may have aired on the humorous side, but we took this song just as seriously as any other we've ever made. It may have been crafted on a whim, but we poured just as much passion and inspiration and detail and care and love that we do to all of our tracks. If you want a different execution, feel free to do it yourself.

I needed to be clearer: I am aware that you took this song seriously, as of any other that you have done, even with the elements of dark humor. However, what I am speaking on is that I shouldn't be too serious because after all, I'm a random game nerd that you've come across a few times before on a website full of game nerds who appreciate game music. It's wonderful, even ground-breaking but nothing to get too serious about. Like I had mentioned, the original song was a game theme made to accompany the adventures of an anthropomorphic echidna who descended from a long dynasty of guardians, and due to it was destined to protect a green rock that'll keep his home afloat.

So, we got one thing straight: I'm not just some butthurt fanboy who couldn't keep a boner. That which you take me for is up to you.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Salluz

[Salluz]

'Scuse my double post, but by the way: I just helped the Rich Gang get more money. Look at all of those views: 64,438,382. Sweet Jesus! We gotta make a way for the OCRemix musicians because they're so talented, passionate, and deserve much as a result.

[Chernabogue]

Very cool remix. I like what the Zone Runners did last year, and this one is one of my fav. The instrumentation is very cool IMO -- love the pizz strings. The lead synths were nice too. Very funky as well. Liked it a lot, nice job!