OCR04598 - *YES* Monster Hunter "Heroes"

[Emunator]

Thennecan - Proof of a Hero ft. Fredrik Häthén

 

Credits:

 

Arrangement: Thennecan ft. Fredrik Häthén

Strings - Orchestral Fantasy

Brass - JohnStacy & Allison Martin Trombone

Woodwinds - GOTWinds

Guitars - Thennecan & Cradius

Bass - Matheus Manente

Drums - Leo Miyata

 

Contact Info:

ReMixer name - Thennecan

Real name - Felipe Salinas

Email - 

Website - www.thennecan.com

Userid - 35872

 

Submission Information

Name of game - Monster Hunter

Name of arrangement - Proof of a Hero

Name of individual song arranged - Proof of a Hero

Link to the original soundtrack - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1fEV6QbCww

 

Comments:

This is the final track of my latest EP called "VGM Life", which it's a tribute to everyone who has supported my VGM endeavors all these years, my family, my friends and my partner. Proof of a Hero is a special track for me because it's a track I got familiar with at the same time that I decided to get serious about video game music, that's why I wanted to make this epic orchestral metal arrangement and try to encapsulate everything I felt for my people and my journey in one big piece.

 

Fredrik has been an incredible friend since I started this journey, and he was definitely the perfect match to help me build the orchestration for this arrangement. Also everyone who recorded for the orchestral and the metal parts did an amazing job, it's truly one of the tracks I'm most proud of ever.

 

LT EDIT (8/1): We have an updated master from Thennecan.

 

Hello!

 

Here's the new master, sorry for taking so long but I realized I lost my take on a pc format some time ago, I re-recorded it. 

I diminished the volumes overall and gave more space to the mix.

I think it's a lot more dynamic now and I think the section where the brass was clipping also was fixed.
I forgot to add an original name to the track. I think simply "Heroes" would be cool, let me know if that works.

 

LT EDIT (9/12): We have an improved master from Thennecan.

Hey folks! Sorry for the slow response, I've been extremely busy this last couple of weeks.

I mixed in a lower volume range and made 2 versions, without my mastering plugins and one with them so you can check more accurately what's not working on the track. Hope this helps solve the distortion and clipping problems, let me know what you think!

 

Best.

 

[DarkSim]

Hey, what a cool source tune! Very cinematic and emotive, with a full arrangement, not just a loop.

Love the direction you've gone with the orchestral metal arrangement. Structure is pretty conservative, but given that the original has a 'proper' structure to begin with, it doesn't need too much tinkering. You've shortened the string breakdown in the source, and at 2:13 the chunky rhythm guitar takes the place of the woodwind and brass in the source, building into a big metal finale. The brass is retained, giving it some extra bombast, and I love the flute trills in there as well. Guitars sound fantastic throughout, no lead dominates the piece, and all instruments have their say. Orchestration seems well-balanced, and everything sounds very naturally played.

There's a beautiful breakdown from 1:32-2:11 to give us some respite from the intensity. The notation is almost verbatim from the source, but I enjoyed the initial switch of lead from flute to oboe to give it a more sombre timbre, and how the lead instruments flowed into each other throughout this section.

Mixing is pretty decent considering the amount of instruments at play here. However, in true metal loudness-war style, it is mastered very loud. There are a number of occasions where you can hear the compressors working hard to keep things under control, and not doing the best job of it. These typically occur at big crescendos or brass blows, such as 0:53, 1:27 and 3:32, but there's also an audible crackliness at 2:12. I'm willing to forgive those though, as they're not too noticeable, and brief enough.

It's a triumph of a vision to remix such a delicate source tune and add such intensity, yet still retain the core emotion of the original piece. Mastering is on the loud side, but not a dealbreaker.

YES

Edit Aug 27th: This sounds worse on my headphones than the first version. Right out of the gate it sounds muddier, and more compressed in all domains. Probably still would give it a YES in isolation, but not compared to the first version.

Edited August 27, 2023 by DarkSim

[MindWanderer]

Fantastic metal/orchestral arrangement, but I'm in hard disagreement with DarkSim about the mastery.  Even though it's hard limited at exactly 0 dB, you can clearly hear crackling when the volume hits that wall, and I'm not just hearing at a handful of spots.  Other than 1:32-2:10, this is a real sausage fest.

I'm not saying this can't be loud, but it can't be so loud that it's pumping, crackling, and otherwise distorted.  And I don't think it's a 5-minute fix.  That makes this a

NO (resubmit)

UPDATE 8/2: Well, I was right that it wasn't a 5-minute fix, because clearly this revision took more than 5 minutes, and it's not fixed. It's much better, but the kicks still pop and the bass still pumps. It's gone from "egregious" to "needs to be better" IMHO.

UPDATE 9/13: Now this is produced by someone who knows what they're doing! Still a little tinny and/or crushed at times, but much, much better. See how much nicer this looks?

YES

Edited September 13, 2023 by MindWanderer

[Chimpazilla]

What a glorious source tune!  It has Star Wars vibes for me.  I am glad the remix is as conservative as it is, since the source tune is long and non-repetitive.  I find this arrangement fantastic, it's full of varied and exciting instrumentation and detail.  The breakdown is utterly lovely, although I'm not a fan of the panning, I prefer things be more centered and mixed front-to-back and narrow-to-wide rather than left-and-right.  That said, the arrangement and performances are excellent and an easy pass for me.  The mixing is also quite good. 

The mastering is indeed super loud.  I don't hear any egregious artifacts, but it's right on the cusp for me, it's almost-nearly pumpy but not quite.  Pushing the master this hard has flattened the overall dynamics though, which is unfortunate.  

I don't find this mastering to be dealbreaking, but in case the track doesn't pass, I recommend the following.  On your master chain, lower the input gain by several db, I lower up to 10 or 12db sometimes on my electronic mixes (I do this first thing before I even begin to write, it makes it easier to mix).  Then, gradually bring the level back up gently through more than one compressor.  I use three or four of them in my chain, each for a various purpose, ending with a mastering compressor and then final limiter set to -0.5db ceiling (avoids unwanted clipping especially when uploaded to YouTube).  Doing it this way should allow you to still have nice full dynamics while giving the track a solid beefy sound and no overcompression artifacts or pumping.

Edit 8/11/23:  New version is not better but worse.  It sounds even more overcompressed and now I hear artifacts and unwanted crunching and pumping.  I would flip to NO if this is the version we go with.  I'll stick with my YES for now while we sort through this.

YES

Edited August 11, 2023 by Chimpazilla

[prophetik music]

needs a new title.

wow, big intro. heavily panned and very loud.

the initial presentation of the main theme (which is just such a cool theme) at 0:38 feels incredible. this is the perfect vehicle for this. layering in the brass and guitar together sounds very good. there's a ton going on here with all the little winds flourishes and the detail in your lead guitar playing.

the english horn at 0:35 is beautifully played. the following string parts are heavily panned but well-handled and beautiful to listen to. there's some crunch at about 2:10 that sounds like an artifact. the build after that is really exciting, and does a nice job moving to the C theme in the original without doing it exactly the same as the original did.

2:45 is an immediate head-bobber. this section's brass is a bit stilted in performance, but as an ensemble sounds great. there's a bit build/blow for the last 10 seconds and it's done.

this is really energetic and fun to listen to. i'd say overall the arrangement is highly conservative, but what you did do to mix it up is welcome and does a great job. it's very loud but i didn't notice any crackling or artifacts besides the one i mentioned.

excellent work.

 

 

YES

Edited January 20, 2023 by prophetik music

[XPRTNovice]

Honestly, I opened the source tune and was like "oh THESE GUYS have some GUTS trying this" 

But you ABSOLUTELY NAILED THIS. It's an incredibly done arrangement. Like, really, really, really, really good. The emotion, the performances, the instrumentation, the interpretation, the sheer EFFORT of it all is phenomenal.

The huge problem, and one for which I am putting up a flag, is actual digitial distortion - like all over the piece. You slam 0dB a ton, and it's very noticeable. :45, 1:15, the entrance at 2:20. It's really kind of everywhere. This needs a careful production pass where we bring this back down so that the real gem of this can shine. 

But other than that, holy shit this is great you guys. 

YES (conditional)

[Emunator]

I'm not going to spend too much time beating around the bush here, but this arrangement is really, REALLY good. Like, some of the best orchestral metal I've ever heard. All of the performances are stunning and the way you brought them all together is so satisfying.

The only issue I have is that the mastering is causing a lot of digital distortion that does not feel intended. For example, I'm hearing it at 1:10, and especially 2:10 when the brass comes in. I suspect one of the brass tracks might be a big culprit. Even backing off of the master limiter slightly would clean this up and put this squarely into "get this on the front page immediately" territory, but I feel like it's doing a disservice to your impeccable arrangement to not clean that up.

NO (resubmit immediately!)

[Liontamer]

Though not a huge deal, the woodwinds didn't cut through at all during the intro lasting until :21. The electric guitar panning was way too wide and didn't make sense on headphones. From :37-1:32, there's also a crunchiness to the soundscape, though I couldn't tell you why that's happening; from 2:09-2:12, it sounded like the brass flourish was distorting, then there's constant distortion from 2:25 until the end.

Production-wise, this needs a serious reexamination, and I think the YESs have lost the plot, nor would I accept this as is if the source files were gone.  Something about the way this has been mixed feels like shit's been overdriven, so there's pervasive and unpleasant distortion and crunch. I hope fixing this would be a straightforward enough process, because with the personalization via the instrumentation and performances, it's a great arrangement and an easy pass.

NO (resubmit)

EDIT (8/1): This version's certainly mixed better. That said, since I'm still listening on headphones, the panning's still too wide; maybe it's a non-issue for speakers/monitors. It sounds like various parts are nearly, if not totally, exclusive to one ear. Overall, it sounds like too much is panned hard right, and that's actually my weaker ear, so it's gotta be drastic if I'm going to notice. I wish I could go YES (conditional) at this point, but addressing panning feels like it would be a lot more involved. Whether this sustained and extremely wide panning's intentional or not, my vote has to stay the same unless the panning's addressed.

EDIT (9/12): The panning's still too wide, I wish the overall sound was sharper, and 1:25-1:27 felt to me like some very minor distortion was there, so some nitpicks still exist. That being said, this newly mastered version Felipe sent actually eliminates the crunchiness and distortion! We do have the unmastered version he sent as well (check the first post), in case one of you Js think you could improve it even more. To me, the arrangement's solid, so we shouldn't tinker with the mixing any longer, when we now have a viable rendition of the track! Glad to FINALLY be able to flip this vote!

YES

Edited September 13, 2023 by Liontamer
changed vote from NO (resubmit) to YES

[DarkeSword]

The performances here are too good to post with this kind of wall-slammy, overdriven distortion. I'm with Larry, this needs a production pass beyond what a Conditional YES would warrant. I mean, listen to 2:09. That's doing the performer a disservice. Please take this back to the DAW and take a hard look at the levels.

NO, resub

[Gario]

Keeping this short, the performances and arrangement are great, but the production quality is holding this back like the others have said. Metal does tend to have pretty hot mastering, but this is much too far. Lower your levels and let off on the limiter so that there's more breathing room for the track. It's plenty loud already, it doesn't need to be hitting the limiter so hard all the time - there are moments where the arrangement is just crackling from the amount it's hitting the limiters like at 2:12, which is unacceptable.

Bring those levels down and clean up the production on this and we'll be good to go.

NO

[Liontamer]

I sent the current feedback to Thennecan, and he's down to revisit this! His comments today: "Hello! Thanks a lot for your input, I'll definitely fix the mastering and resubmit in the next couple of days. And also add a new name as prohpetik suggested." - @Rexy, feel free to vote, but we'll also keep this on standby instead of closing it if you go NO on the current version, since a new version may easily flip some votes.

EDIT (8/1): We've received an updated version.

EDIT (9/12): We've received a better updated version.

[Emunator]

Ahhh, I have to say this new version sounds objectively worse. I'm not sure what happened but there's now MAJOR distortion artifacts all over the track; basically any time that the guitars are chugging, this sounds like mud. Would you be willing to share an unmastered version of this with some headroom so I could try to determine if these issues are happening during the mixing or mastering phase? I'm not a mastering expert by any means but it sounds like you basically ran your old master through a second mastering chain and it's just crushing against the limiter.

Still a no from me, but I'm 100% confident we can workshop this to a passable state!

[DarkeSword]

Yeah still a NO from me. Look: I love this arrangement and these performances. This is an all-timer! The energy shifts and changes, you change things up rhythmically in really cool ways. It honestly sounds like something you'd hear off of a really great official arrange album. I want this track to be on OCR, it's something people would love, especially Monster Hunter fans. But this needs to shine in terms of sound quality. I'm also hearing the distortion artifacts. The drums and guitar are not playing nice with each other. We desperately need to get some eyes and ears on this.

[Rexy]

The fellow judges have expressed the arrangement side to a tee, so nothing bears repeating.  Taking the structure and converting it into a symphonic metal arrangement, with the assortment of musicians you have, ticks many of the right boxes on that front.  And with your performers must also come some exceptional recording and articulation qualities; on that note, I feel not a single player had been out of place.  Indeed, this is highly ambitious, and I greatly respect that.

But here's the elephant in the room - the mastering.  The first version you sent had a lot of clarity but was heavily distorted, so I can see why this was a factor for a split.  I never heard the second, and the third one has a much cleaner sound in exchange for a muddier mixdown - which I can understand due to the similar tone register between guitars, strings, and brass.  Thankfully, the panning helps identify your instrumentation, and while I would've preferred to see some EQ cuts to further distinguish between your symphonic backing, what we have here is still more than serviceable.

Based on the renders, I'm cool with seeing this version make it onto the site, but if we focused the vote on the first one alone, it would've been a NO.  I won't be too surprised if this takes more deliberating before figuring out what to do, but we'll see how it goes.  Excellent work between you all, though.

YES