Why I don't play PC games.

[PlastikBag]

My system cost me less than $1000 two years ago. I just upgraded my videocard to a x1950 pro ($150) and I can max out everything but Crysis. Even so, Crysis plays fine and still looks great on medium. I'm actually quite sick of people giving Crysis so much shit, it still looks better than almost every game on the market even on medium settings. Currently I could build a brand new system for less than $1000 that could max Crysis, no AA and not super high-resolutions, but that's a lot to ask for. Some might scoff at the $1000 price tag, but it's a computer and there is far more you can do with it than just play videogames.

Also, to the topic creator: Do some research before even bothering with PC games.

[Fenrir]

It's a matter of games for me. Most of the games I like to play just don't come out on PC. Maybe I'm just a weeaboo faggot or something, but most of the stuff I see on the PC shelf looks like uninspired shite (before you try dissecting that, notice the MOST part. I'm well aware the Crysis and the Orange Box look gorgeous). Speaking of which, why isn't Mass Effect on the PC yet?

The last game that I spent a ton of time on was Total Annihilation. If I ever get a new computer, I might spring for Supreme Commander, but that's about it. I just don't really care.

[Yoshi3gg]

I love PC gaming, but my reasons for it haven't been mentioned anywhere else in this thread (from what I saw skimming through it).

I mean, yeah, keyboard and mouse is a great setup for a lot of games.

I could care less about graphics as long as the game's art direction is good and I can get a good framerate.

But where PC gaming is important to me is in user-generated content. I loved Starcraft because I loved making maps, and the map-making community always pushed the envelope to make the game do things that I never would've thought possible while playing the single player campaign. I loved Morrowind because you could make your own quests, your own items, your own towns, or download any number of totally awesome plug-ins that totally changed the appearance of some of the less attractive things in the game (faces, book covers, etc.). Same thing with Oblivion.

And then there's all the independent development going on; Knytt Stories is absolutely amazing (and it has a tool for making your own levels!).

Anyway, I guess that's tangential to the original point. I think that a lot of devs for commercial hardcore PC games have forgotten what makes PC gaming so special in the first place, and it's become kind of dick-waving competition among the players to see who can eek out the most fps on mega-hyper-ultra settings. For me, while I do keep my machine up to date and able to run games I want to play smoothly, it's more about the special things that PC gaming brings to the table that console gaming can't due to licensing.

[Lunahorum]

the main difference being PC gaming has a bloated piece of shit (or at least inefficient compared to consoles) operating system to run while it is running the game. A console has a minimal operating system.

I don't understand why gaming operating systems haven't come out yet. Have an xbox like OS, but for the computer. Does anyone know the actual system specs of the xbox and how it compares to a computer?

edit: is vista any good? I have heard it takes more ram, but the processing might be more efficient?

[BlueMage]

On the other hand, I'm not the type of guy that plays games on a PC because of the whole "keyboard, mouse" setup. I've never been a fan for this type of control even though a lot of people say that it's the coolest setup in terms of FPS games. Also, I really don't feel like worrying over tech specs and buying more upgrades (graphics card and the like) with each game I want. I'd rather waste that money on buying the games themselves, their respective consoles, and upgrading my gaming hub with an HDTV and 7.1 surround system.

The simple fact is that you have far greater and exacting control using the keyboard and mouse.

From what I'm hearing these days, the PC market is really going down under because the latest games require some heavy-duty graphics/physics cards to make them run. CRYSIS bombed at retail because most people can't run the damn game...I think it needs like 5000$ worth of PC upgrades to get the most out of it. Same thing with UT3, while not as heavy as CRYSIS, it still needs a really good PC to get the most out of the game. I'd rather get a PS3 or 360 to play PC ports....it's a lot cheaper and I don't need to worry about graphic cards, installation problems, errors, and the like...even if the console ports don't look as good as the PC ones runned on high-end setups. Hell, getting consoles are a great option for PC fans these days because developers are paying more attention to please the original market. I hear that UT3 for PS3 can work with a keyboard/mouse setup and they've been recently testing the waters on MODs.

They are testing water for mods. PC games are better off being ported to console than the other way around, however - it's easy to remove complexity, not so to introduce it.

Also, my rig was only 3500AUD for the entire lot, and apparently we have far higher costs on electronics than in the US, so 5000USD in upgrades is a bit overkill. Unless you're intending to get a 30" screen.

Max, for modern games, Vista is superb. I have not encountered any Vista-related problems on modern games - it's rather well-behaved regarding system notifications, hasn't crashed due to OS faults, and politely concedes RAM to the higher priority applications, all without bothering you over the details. And then, when you finish your gaming session, it returns to your usual settings.

[Shadowe]

A ~260 dollar 8800gt and even a singlecore pentium4 and 2gb of ram can get you crysis at 1920x1200 with no AA and ~25fps solid.

[I-n-j-i-n]

A ~260 dollar 8800gt and even a singlecore pentium4 and 2gb of ram can get you crysis at 1920x1200 with no AA and ~25fps solid.

25fps is not solid. Sorry.

Also, if we're talking about gaming PCs nowadays, it's mostly with doubling it up. Dual sticks of memory (4GB), dual graphic card link, dual processors, or even dual harddrives for faster access.

I really don't buy the idea that PC gaming is cheap. Because it is not. Not if you want something respectable, then you have to expect to go into $3000 category, and that is just by going to newegg to find parts, not even to buy it from a large manufacturer.

[Hyperion5182]

If I saw such a system I'd believe it. My $1600 workstation doesn't even really run stuff that well.

Workstations arent geared for gaming they are rather specialized and sometimes they incur problems when used for other purposes. (especially the high ram versions which typically have somewhat different operating systems to access that ram) And oh BTW 1600 for a WORK STATION? Thats a crappy workstation as the ground floor on that is 5000

(general scale of PCS)

400-1000 Entry level

1001-2000 Mid level

2001-3000 Gaming rig

3000=4500 Dream Machine

4501+ Work Station.

Not everyone keeps their computer on 24/7. When you pay your own electric bill it definitely makes an impact. If you're already booted up then yes it can be relatively fast, assuming your system is tweaked and optimized.

This is true. But every 6 months or so is a pretty solid setup for an upgrade schedule. Its a matter of comparing what you have to what you want. If you are close no need to upgrade if you are falling behind by a significant margin consider it.

On my current computer, UT:3 has fairly lagged mouse controls. Likewise for Hellgate London. Starting up Portal takes awhile too. My system is in general tweaked for max performance, too. I cut background crap to a minimum.

This sounds like a driver issue or a direct setting issue in game. Have you checked for patches? Checked mouse lag options in UT3? What kind of mouse trackball or laser? (if track ball try cleaning it) If laser check drivers. Speaking of drivers check them for your graphics card as well that can help in truckloads.

I'm not stupid; I do a LOT of optimization to my computer and always have. I do all that stuff and there is just no denying that over time, as you install more and more software and fill up your hard drives, performance takes a hit. On the other hand, my PS2 works as well as it did when I first bought it. Same speeds.

That is more on Hd speed than anything else a RAID setup with a 10k drive will fix those problems in a hurry. A PS2 doesnt keep games installed and has a specified purpose. Even a gaming rig can do more than play games.

Maybe IF I built or bought a computer with the SOLE purpose of playing games and kept ALL other tools and utilities off, plus paid meticulous attention to maintaining it, this wouldn't be an issue. But no matter what way you slice it, it's more work just to get to where consoles are (and have been) for years.

Completely untrue. Well not quite in sheer repair work maybe. But in performance? Not even CLOSE proven by more than a few devs. A computer will forever outdistance a console they are the cutting edge. Period. The current console+HD TV is completely outclassed by an AVERAGE PC of today in graphics power. A dedicated gaming rig? Forget it.

Not to say I don't play games on my computer. I've been a PC gamer for way longer than I've had consoles, and I will always play RTS/FPS games on my computer (as well as MMORPGs, if I ever go back to them.) But in general, gaming on a PC is not as smooth of an experience as modern console gaming. This is confirmed especially after I picked up an Xbox 360 and a Wii a few weeks ago.

You arent trying hard enough to keep up with the curve. A lot of your issues seem to be very fixable with a bit of effort. If you want to play games on Console i cant stop you but you are missing out. Especially if you arent working to keep up with the tech. You can put together a PC capable of running the best games of today at very high FPS rates for under 1500 dollars if you know what you are doing.

Edit: To the poster above me i can do a legit rig for 1500 dollars or less. Care to have me send you specs? Its not hard reallly granted its not a dual 8800 GTX quad core 3.0 GHZ 8 gig ram a raid 4 HD with an SSD and 3 other 10k drives but it should run crysis at 80 or so FPS with out real trouble.

[OverCoat]

So, really, what is the point of gaming on a computer?

-10 billion games to choose from. 30 billion if you count emulation. And I do [DOSBox is handy]

-Keyboard and mouse for everything, not some weirdass banana controller

-region free

-alt-tab

-I have a decent enough computer that I can create music on AND it can run pretty much anything. I was running Crysis and it was on low-medium settings but still looked pretty nice.

-fucking Steam is awesome. I just bought the iD software super pack last night during a huge christmas sale for $57

-torrent plz

p.s. you don't get Crysis for the graphics. You get Crysis for the

[I-n-j-i-n]

Wow. I never thought anyone would say Steam is awesome.

[OverCoat]

Wow. I never thought anyone would say Steam is awesome.

I love it! It's so much better than going down to the store and paying $60 for some game. Buying the iD Super Pack took me less than 2 minutes, and I already had access to like 30 games.

I've never had many problems with it. Nothing major since... HL2 came out.

The only thing is I can't activate my copy of HL1 because of some duplicate CD key thing :V so I have to install it independent of Steam.

[operawonderdude]

Personally, I dislike the whole multiple GPU solution. If you use two cards, you should get twice the performance.

Having two of something doesn't mean 2X the performance...just to let you know...T_T

Anyways, I get pretty good kicks outta just having an entry level dual core laptop (with the intel 900 series by the way).

Yeah Crysis is out the question for me...but I'd rather play CS:Source and Doom3 anyways...

EDIT: Dang that id software bundle looks pretty nice, I've only got Doom3 and the expansion,

so perhaps I'll look into it...

[Steben]

Ah well. Lesson learned, I suppose.

Hopefully it'll run okay on my PC, otherwise, I guess I'll need to invest in upgrading it. I'm pretty sure the main culprit there will be my RAM...

I have to wonder when they'll start supporting USB keyboard/mouse support in console games. All three systems support keyboards already, I think, so a mouse wouldn't be too big a stretch, I'd imagine. Except maybe for the Wii, but I'm a huge fan of using the Wiimote for FPSes anyway.

[OverCoat]

so perhaps I'll look into it...

The older games use Dosbox [Keen, Wolfenstein, etc] which should work, GLQuake needed some fucking around for me to use it though [command line stuff!], but you shouldn't have many/any problems.

[The Pezman]

But where PC gaming is important to me is in user-generated content. I loved Starcraft because I loved making maps, and the map-making community always pushed the envelope to make the game do things that I never would've thought possible while playing the single player campaign. I loved Morrowind because you could make your own quests, your own items, your own towns, or download any number of totally awesome plug-ins that totally changed the appearance of some of the less attractive things in the game (faces, book covers, etc.). Same thing with Oblivion.

And then there's all the independent development going on; Knytt Stories is absolutely amazing (and it has a tool for making your own levels!).

Anyway, I guess that's tangential to the original point. I think that a lot of devs for commercial hardcore PC games have forgotten what makes PC gaming so special in the first place, and it's become kind of dick-waving competition among the players to see who can eek out the most fps on mega-hyper-ultra settings. For me, while I do keep my machine up to date and able to run games I want to play smoothly, it's more about the special things that PC gaming brings to the table that console gaming can't due to licensing.

-10 billion games to choose from. 30 billion if you count emulation. And I do [DOSBox is handy]

-Keyboard and mouse for everything, not some weirdass banana controller

-region free

-alt-tab

-I have a decent enough computer that I can create music on AND it can run pretty much anything. I was running Crysis and it was on low-medium settings but still looked pretty nice.

-fucking Steam is awesome. I just bought the iD software super pack last night during a huge christmas sale for $57

-torrent plz

Amen brothas. When you have a versatile machine that can do more than just gaming you can modify your gaming experience. That can mean returning to old school classics or modifying games with your own content. Or both:

You're going to get far more options with PCs. Yes, they can be a bitch to upgrade but at least you can upgrade them (Yay! Nintendo DS! It's so slick and awesome and... what the fuck? DS Lite?).

Don't like using a keyboard? You got your mouse, joystick, or even a console controller if you want. But if you don't like using the controller on a console? Whoops, outta luck.

Want to rip the disc to an image on the hard drive to cut down on loading time? A few clicks with Alcohol here on the PC. And now I don't need any discs to game.

And hey! Let's use the Portal gun in Half-Life 2! ...oh, you've got it on 360? Sorry bud, no can do. It's awesome, though, I promise.

I don't have anything close to an excellent gaming rig. Because I have a non-Alienware laptop. From 2005 (3.4 single core, 2 GB RAM, 100 GB Hard drive). But I have been able to play pretty much anything I've tried. And for the fifteen games I can't play on this there are fifteen hundred I can which I haven't even thought about touching yet.

And about Vista not being designed from the ground up for gaming... well, that's true while you don't actually have a game open. But once you do all unnecessary processes either stop or are given minimal attention, as the OS knows the game is the only thing the user will be focusing on.

Oh, and lest I forget.

[Bahamut]

Uhh if you buy from an OEM, there's a good chance you can't upgrade them. They also tend to be pricey, there's usually little to no way of quality controlling out douchebags on an online game, keyboard & mouse is as much of a negative as a positive (even worse if something catches on an optical mouse near the sensor during a critical moment, or if you're as unfortunate as me with hardcore PC gaming fucking with hand-eye coordination), significantly more expensive, and well, the negative reasons go on and on (some mentioned already). For most, the negative obviously outweighs the positive as PC gaming keeps getting weaker as retail continues to see far weaker sales compared to its console counterparts, resulting in more diminished shelf space. It's not a secret that PC gaming elitists & DRM are killing a once thriving industry in the US.

As for Steam, you pay more in general than if you waited for a retail price drop or sale. For example, Steam's recent sale of The Orange Box - you could've bought it at retail for quite cheaper than through Steam (i.e. $25 on Black Friday for the PC version). Valve controls pricing far more strongly than the competitive retail scene does, and so you pay quite more than anyone who pays the slightest of attention to prices (made even easier with CAG).

[Shadowe]

Edit: To the poster above me i can do a legit rig for 1500 dollars or less. Care to have me send you specs? Its not hard reallly granted its not a dual 8800 GTX quad core 3.0 GHZ 8 gig ram a raid 4 HD with an SSD and 3 other 10k drives but it should run crysis at 80 or so FPS with out real trouble.

Actually the problem is crysis itself. It seems like everything from 640mb 8800GTS's with 2ghz dual cores to SLI 8800ultras with 4ghz quaddies will still only get 25-35fps at conventional resolutions. My guess is the game just needs some code optimized somewhere.

If you really want an awesome rig though, here's mine for right about $1000:

$330 Q9450 2.66ghz quadcore, overclockable to ~3.4ghz easily.

$120 Antec 900 midtower, best non-fulltower case

$140 p5k-E p35 mobo, same 8-phase power as the $200 ones

$120 Corsair 520hx, well known and well tested PSU

$94 2x1gb Gskill ddr2-800, ram's easy at least

$250 EVGA 8800gt 512mb, any of the big3 but evga is best

Assuming that like any smart PC gamer you're cannibalizing the hard drive, optical drive, and peripherals of your old machine that brings you up to $1054 or so for a quad-core gaming monster that can run crysis at 1920x1200. G92 based 8800 series cards are beastly, but they don't tolerate anti-aliasing very well at all because of the 256bit memory bus, which is also why they have 256 or 512mb of ram instead of the other amounts. And for the record a computer with these stats bends an xbox360 over and does it up the ass. Ps3 not so much but then again the ps3's an entirely different architecture so there's no real basis for comparison.

[Bahamut]

I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that people necessarily should reuse parts to get that price - reusing hard drives like that kill their life for example, and even mice & keyboards aren't everlasting. Monitors are just as prone to failure as well and likely won't last the duration of two desktops, and another copy of Windows must be bought altogether anyway. And for such parts, you want a good power supply as well...all of this can easily run someone over $1500 if they want quality items.

[Effef]

If I saw such a system I'd believe it. My $1600 workstation doesn't even really run stuff that well.

I am typing on one right now.

Athlon X2 4000+, 2gb DDr2800, HD3850

I get a solid 50+ fps in TF2, and the whole thing cost me around $450-500 in parts.

Just out of curiosity, what graphics card are you running?

[OverCoat]

(i.e. $25 on Black Friday for the PC version)

I had to work on Black Friday. Also, it's still a good deal even at $50. Also, fuck Black Friday.

I'm mostly buying older games like Vampire: The Masquerade, for $10. I'm not a big spender

[Shadowe]

I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that people necessarily should reuse parts to get that price - reusing hard drives like that kill their life for example, and even mice & keyboards aren't everlasting.

That's ridiculous, I've got an MX510 from when they came out that works fine, a hard drive from over 4 years ago that's still in almost perfect condition, people STILL buy trinitron CRT's even though they were discontinued years ago, and if you buy a keyboard that has mechanical keys instead of rubber that degrades over time it'll probably outlast whatever type of plug it uses to connect to the computer. I still have a buckling spring keyboard from when a ps2 port was considered new and exciting.

It's actually very common for gamers to stick to the same set of peripherals and hard drive and just upgrade the core machine as necessary. I myself used the same buckling spring keyboard, 200gb hard drive, and MX510 mouse for at least the past 4 or 5 years. For the next 4 or 5 years (barring a mandatory hardware change because USB died or something) I expect to be using my G5 and G15 on my primary machine.

Monitors are just as prone to failure as well and likely won't last the duration of two desktops, and another copy of Windows must be bought altogether anyway. And for such parts, you want a good power supply as well...all of this can easily run someone over $1500 if they want quality items.

Bullshit and bullshit again. One of my monitors, from 1995, finally died just a few months ago after (literally) 24/7 use for over 10 years and since I've been keeping the same hard drive I've only ever needed one copy of XP pro at a time. Oh and the Corsair 520HX IS a good power supply. It is, in fact, one of the BEST power supplies and is by and far (along with the bigger 620hx) one of the most popular power supplies on OCforums.

The problem with making stuff up as you go, like you did with that "kills their life" thing, is that you run the risk of doing it to somebody that actually does this for a living. But you go and keep making more and more desperate and random excuses to justify your conviction that a gaming computer costs more than $1000. I'll be laughing the whole time on my sub-$1100 quad-core gaming rig that eats xbox360 games for breakfast.

And by the way. $300 for an xbox 360 core, and about 10 $60 games is equal to one gaming PC. It looks like a better deal on the surface but unlike your 360 and games I get mods, free multiplayer, freeware games, emulated games, cheaper retail games, better framerates at higher resolutions, and most of my stuff comes with a lifetime warranty and is unlikely to ever fail. It will also still be quite good in ~4 years whereas your console will have to be replaced by then for another ~$1000 while I will be good with maybe $250 for a new graphics card.

[anosou]

Except for Gameboys. Man, those fuckers were rock solid all the way through. Drop them down stairs, dunk them in water, kick them down a hallway, throw them at someone else... and the fuckers still worked!

Right on brother!

[kitty]

And by the way. $300 for an xbox 360 core, and about 10 $60 games is equal to one gaming PC. It looks like a better deal on the surface but unlike your 360 and games I get mods, free multiplayer, freeware games, emulated games, cheaper retail games, better framerates at higher resolutions, and most of my stuff comes with a lifetime warranty and is unlikely to ever fail. It will also still be quite good in ~4 years whereas your console will have to be replaced by then for another ~$1000 while I will be good with maybe $250 for a new graphics card.

This, right here, is my main reason for supporting PC gaming over console gaming. Also, I'm a big multiplayer enthusiast and I really abhor paying to play a game after I payed the initial cost (yes that means most MMOs are out of the question but I love my Guild Wars). I love getting updated content and free mods. Counter-Strike started as a mod and look where it is now. I bought the Half-Life Platinum Edition box set off of Amazon and got 8 games off Steam (I like Steam because of its convenience) for just $10. CS1.6 is awesome because of the customization it allows. I still like my console classics like all the Nintendo stuff and the occasional Playstation titles but if you add it up, I've spent less on this gaming computer than my consoles.

[lazygecko]

The ludicrous console game prices thanks to license costs cancels out the whole upgrading argument. I would never pay more than $50 for a new game.

[I-n-j-i-n]

The ludicrous console game prices thanks to license costs cancels out the whole upgrading argument. I would never pay more than $50 for a new game.

No it doesn't. I used to pay $50 for NES games, $70-$80 for new SNES games. Didn't bat an eye. Even if it used up all my monthly allowance at the time.

Then there is the ironclad fact that you don't need to upgrade consoles.