Why I don't play PC games.

[anosou]

The ludicrous console game prices thanks to license costs cancels out the whole upgrading argument. I would never pay more than $50 for a new game.

No it doesn't. Upgrading your PC (and for all I care, buying the PC in the first place) AND buying the new games is more expensive than buying console games. Also it's not like every game is $50. Many good previous-generation games are way below that. In any case the newest PC games are above $50 anyway.

Though, as someone mentioned, a computer is way more than a gaming platform and that might justify not buying a console if you don't care for the games there.

[dsx100]

In any case the newest PC games are above $50 anyway.

Thats not true. The vast majority of brand new PC games are only $50. The ones that are more are usually collectors editions. Orange Box, Crysis, Unreal Tournament III, Command and Conquer 3, Gears of War, and BioShock where all only $50 on PC as opposed to $60 on consoles. Also don't forget that the prices for PC games go down very quickly compared to consoles.

[zircon]

Workstations arent geared for gaming they are rather specialized and sometimes they incur problems when used for other purposes. (especially the high ram versions which typically have somewhat different operating systems to access that ram) And oh BTW 1600 for a WORK STATION? Thats a crappy workstation as the ground floor on that is 5000

Not even going to respond to the rest of your post point by point, but I'll address this. I'm a music professional and I've been making music exclusively with my computer for years. A good digital audio workstation can be built for $1500, easily. There is no disputing this as I can run all of the latest cutting-edge music software easily with my rig. $5000 on a single music workstation is a complete waste, as the major hangup right now is loading more than 2GB of samples, but that is a limitation in 32-bit OSes - switching to 64bit creates compatability issues, so 8 to 16gb systems are useless. A 10k RPM system drive, lots of additional 7200 RPM storage, a very fast multicore processor, top of the line audio interface, and barebones OS install is what defines a music workstation.

In your post you basically listed all the stuff I have to do just to 'keep up with the curve' and enjoy PC gaming, requiring additional time, money, and research beyond what I do now. This is just to match the experience given to me by my Xbox 360, Wii, and PS2, which I am enjoying greatly at a combined price of less than half of what I paid for my computer. Like I said, I'll always play some types of games on the PC, but you're just wrong when you say that an average PC looks better than a nextgen console. I have an average PC (when it comes to graphics) and no, it doesn't look any better.

Microsoft's initiative with "Games for Windows" is an excellent step in the right direction, but PC gaming definitely is lagging behind console gaming in many ways.

[Sir_NutS]

My last pc upgrade cost me around 500 bucks. New vid card, new processor and an additional gig of ram (yes, pc gamers with a brain UPGRADE and reuse components that are perfectly working, it's not like we throw our old computer to the trash and spend all our money to build a new one from scratch...). back then I got an ATI x850 XT and an athlon 64 3800+. Now I am going to upgrade again, with a core 2 duo e6600, prolly more ram, and a new shiny ati hd3870, which will set me back for around 500 again.

Taking in account that I use my pc for waaay more things than just gaming, and that I get free mods and free multiplayer, and I don't have to spend money on an expensive hdtv to get high resolutions, I think it's a good deal. And well there's the fact that RTS, FPS and other types of games are incredible to play on a PC setup and so very shitty on a console.

I still love my console for the same reasons i love my pc, there are some games that I just won't get to play on a pc, and to the naysayers: PC gaming has been called dead since the 90s and it's still rocking the place and leading the way technology-wise, in ALL aspects.

[zircon]

On a side note, maybe I just haven't really watched or played enough stuff in HD or on big TVs, but I frankly have no problem playing games on an old 28-30" picture tube. I've never had a great TV and it just never struck me as a problem. Everything looks fine to me. I'm not much of a video fidelity snob I guess. Admittedly though I do much prefer using my nice headphones when gaming on my PC to using crappy built-in TV speakers (I've never had a home theater system.)

[lazygecko]

If you only buy 2-3 console games per year I guess it's less expensive in the long run.

I can't help but feel ripped off if I pay any more than that, especially if it's one of those games you play for a couple of weeks and then shelf, like Bioshock.

Yes, I limit myself to bargain bin titles when shopping for console games. Not even that is fullfilling sometimes. A few months ago I was looking to buy Twilight Princess for my Gamecube, hoping it had dropped in price. Every retailer were still selling it an nearly full price. I got Neverwinter Nights 2 for $25 during the first quarter of the year and it was released roughly at the same time as TP.

Today I got Unreal Tournament 3 for $35. The PS3 version was listed for nearly twice as much.

[anosou]

If you only buy 2-3 console games per year I guess it's less expensive in the long run.

I can't help but feel ripped off if I pay any more than that, especially if it's one of those games you play for a couple of weeks and then shelf, like Bioshock.

Yes, I limit myself to bargain bin titles when shopping for console games. Not even that is fullfilling sometimes. A few months ago I was looking to buy Twilight Princess for my Gamecube, hoping it had dropped in price. Every retailer were still selling it an nearly full price. I got Neverwinter Nights 2 for $25 during the first quarter of the year and it was released roughly at the same time as TP.

Today I got Unreal Tournament 3 for $35. The PS3 version was listed for nearly twice as much.

Neverwinter Nights 2 isn't nearly as popular as Twilight Princess and the gamecube version of TP was released in limited numbers. Supply and demand.

A game console typically lasts for about 5 years before a sequel to that console comes. During that time there are expensive games but most big titles (that are released in many copies) get cheap fast. There are loads of games that enter cheap on the consoles too that are still good, games you can get on the same platform you got 4-5 years ago. Also there are never issues with compatibility of OS or parts.

Not upgrading your computer for 5 years and still playing the newest games seems highly unlikely, you can do that with a console. And then the console itself is still a lot cheaper than a workstation.

Also, PS3 is very demanding on the developers. I read some article about PS3 games having massive budgets because of everything that had to do with PS3 and how it was built.. though I can't be sure. I don't care for PS3.

Thats not true. The vast majority of brand new PC games are only $50. The ones that are more are usually collectors editions. Orange Box, Crysis, Unreal Tournament III, Command and Conquer 3, Gears of War, and BioShock where all only $50 on PC as opposed to $60 on consoles. Also don't forget that the prices for PC games go down very quickly compared to consoles.

You seem to know this so I take your word for it. I just haven't been interested in buying any of those titles (all shooters or wargames, don't care much for 'em.. though I WOULD like portal) so I wouldn't know. I just know that they're still expensive.

[Bahamut]

That's ridiculous, I've got an MX510 from when they came out that works fine, a hard drive from over 4 years ago that's still in almost perfect condition, people STILL buy trinitron CRT's even though they were discontinued years ago, and if you buy a keyboard that has mechanical keys instead of rubber that degrades over time it'll probably outlast whatever type of plug it uses to connect to the computer. I still have a buckling spring keyboard from when a ps2 port was considered new and exciting.

It's actually very common for gamers to stick to the same set of peripherals and hard drive and just upgrade the core machine as necessary. I myself used the same buckling spring keyboard, 200gb hard drive, and MX510 mouse for at least the past 4 or 5 years. For the next 4 or 5 years (barring a mandatory hardware change because USB died or something) I expect to be using my G5 and G15 on my primary machine.

I'm sure I've had more computers than you, and I've taken care of them well, but I've had monitors fail on me (and have seen it happen to friends), and countless hard drive failures. Just because you have had the fortune of being able to keep the stuff doesn't mean it works like that in general.

Bullshit and bullshit again. One of my monitors, from 1995, finally died just a few months ago after (literally) 24/7 use for over 10 years and since I've been keeping the same hard drive I've only ever needed one copy of XP pro at a time. Oh and the Corsair 520HX IS a good power supply. It is, in fact, one of the BEST power supplies and is by and far (along with the bigger 620hx) one of the most popular power supplies on OCforums.

The problem with making stuff up as you go, like you did with that "kills their life" thing, is that you run the risk of doing it to somebody that actually does this for a living. But you go and keep making more and more desperate and random excuses to justify your conviction that a gaming computer costs more than $1000. I'll be laughing the whole time on my sub-$1100 quad-core gaming rig that eats xbox360 games for breakfast.

And by the way. $300 for an xbox 360 core, and about 10 $60 games is equal to one gaming PC. It looks like a better deal on the surface but unlike your 360 and games I get mods, free multiplayer, freeware games, emulated games, cheaper retail games, better framerates at higher resolutions, and most of my stuff comes with a lifetime warranty and is unlikely to ever fail. It will also still be quite good in ~4 years whereas your console will have to be replaced by then for another ~$1000 while I will be good with maybe $250 for a new graphics card.

What? Everything I've said is fairly commonplace, especially hard drives. You'd have to be an idiot to not know that hard drives are quite prone to failure for example. I think you're full of the bullshit here - it is unreasonable to cripple another computer just to have a cheap gaming computer, I don't know how in the world you can justify that, especially when taking into account part life. All I've stated are well-known negatives, and then all the sudden you throw around ad hominem attacks and then don't even address the points.

As for retail pricing of games, it is not hard to avoid spending $50/60 on a game. For example, new games like Super Mario Galaxy, Call of Duty 4, and Bioshock have seen some quick price cuts/sales ($37 for the previous two just this week as well as similar or better prices in the previous weeks, and Bioshock for $40 on the 360). Blue Dragon, being only a few months old is on sale for $32 this week. I was able to preorder games like Halo 3 & Mass Effect for $40 new without strings attached (and Super Mario Galaxy & Super Smash Bros.: Brawl for $38 ). Many stellar games get cheap in less than 6 months. The pricing argument for console games is bunk.

I don't have any problem with PC games as games themselves - I have enjoyed some of my best gaming times with them (Red Alert, Total Annhilation, Unreal Tournament 2004, Diablo 2, Warcraft 3). I have a problem with the elitist PC fanboy attitude that's all too common in hardcore PC gaming, poor online gaming regulation, and probably most of all, DRM. The first & third reasons have a hand in slowly killing a once thriving industry (marginalizing others who want to play but can't due to hardware & causing problems for those who bought the game legally).

[anosou]

I don't have any problem with PC games as games themselves - I have enjoyed some of my best gaming times with them (Red Alert, Total Annhilations, Unreal Tournament 2004, Diablo 2, Warcraft 3). I have a problem with the elitist PC fanboy attitude that's all too common in hardcore PC gaming, poor online gaming regulation, and probably most of all, DRM. The first & third reasons have a hand in slowly killing a once thriving industry (marginalizing others who want to play but can't due to hardware & causing problems for those who bought the game legally).

Amen brother.

[Avatar of Justice]

I don't really consider price an issue on games. If you don't feel like paying $50-60 for a game, just wait a while for the price to go down. I don't know about anyone else, but I have a huge backlog of games to play, so by the time I actually get to what just came out today the price should've gone down. I generally only make exceptions for Final Fantasy and Guilty Gear.

[anosou]

I don't really consider price an issue on games. If you don't feel like paying $50-60 for a game, just wait a while for the price to go down. I don't know about anyone else, but I have a huge backlog of games to play, so by the time I actually get to what just came out today the price should've gone down. I generally only make exceptions for Final Fantasy and Guilty Gear.

I'm the same way. I'm still all about PS2. Trying to play FFXII, Digital Devil Saga, Dragon Quest 8, Psychonauts and a bunch of obscure titles like Steambot Chronicles all at the same time :3 at least it's cheap

[djpretzel]

Apples to Oranges, really - I'd much rather play RTS and FPS games on a PC, largely I suppose due to keyboard/mouse combo control scheme that, while available for consoles, takes up a lot of space, etc. I go for convenience, more often than not - if I have to set up a keyboard/mouse for UT3 on my PS3, I'm less likely to play it, whereas if they're already out for my PC (which they obviously would be)... you get the picture.

Also, any game that requires micromanagement and strategy in general - Civilization, for instance - I think works better on an LCD, at higher resolutions. Can you hook your XB360 up to an LCD via HDMI, then add a keyboard and mouse, and would it then be just as good? Maybe... but I'd much rather have my 360 hooked up to a 56" 1080p widescreen, personally.

We're talking about how PCs aren't as good as consoles at games, but the reverse of this is that consoles are no where near as good as PCs for other stuff... again, imo, but I find browsing the web on all of these devices to be painful.

Nevertheless, the line keeps blurring. DX10, for all the criticisms it (rightfully) receives, is at least an effort to create a baseline of some sort in terms of shader, etc. support, in the (perhaps vain) hopes of making the PC gaming experience more predictable, and perhaps ultimately, more affordable.

I honestly CAN envision a day when dedicated gaming consoles are a thing of the past, and computers take over the reigns. To me, it makes logical and fiscal sense, and COULD be a good thing. But that won't happen until it's ready to happen, and until then, certain types of games will fair better on consoles, others (I'd say fewer, for the record) will be more appropriate for PCs, and that's that.

In the PCs favor, even though it's a legal gray area, I still vastly prefer console emulation on PCs. Virtual Console is neat and all, and I love seeing people excited about older games, but really... if VC involved a license to the ROM itself, THAT'D be revolutionary, and awesome. Tying those games to a console that can't output above 480p (and yes, it DOES make a difference - you should see Mario 64 under Project 64 at 1080p sometime) and doesn't have myriad other features standard in most emulators is to me a non-starter.

Glad I have both, basically

[The Pezman]

Until DJP's post I was getting very sick of this thread. The question was a nice one and I wanted to debate it, but it was going the way of most threads and descending into pointless bickering. I admit my post may have contributed to that.

Anyways, I want to try and get this thread back on track, and to do so I'd like to list the pros and cons I've heard so far:

CONSOLE PROS

- You don't have to worry about system compatibility. If a game is made for your system it will work on your system. Even if it has a couple of glitches, you can guarantee it will run

-Compared to a PC (a decent one, we've agreed, runs about $800-1500) they are considerably cheaper

-Do not need to be upgraded. All games from the beginning to the end of the system's lifetime are designed to run (hopefully optimally) on the system hardware as released

CONSOLE CONS

-You cannot upgrade the console short of buying a new or better one

-Customization (i.e. options for controls) is practically nonexistent

-All games have to be funneled through the console's company for approval. If Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo doesn't like the idea for a game, poof. It's never released

-They really are just for gaming. I don't know many people who take any other features of consoles very seriously

-You can't really interact with the games beyond playing them (i.e. can't put the Portal gun in Half-Life 2, can't make your own maps, etc.)

PC PROS

-You have a myriad of options about you want your PC to run. You can choose the best video card, or else you can hang back with a middle-of-the-road one. Same thing goes for pretty much any other components

-You can interact with the games beyond playing them (see Console cons)

-Options for control. Personally, I think this one renders the whole keyboard vs. controller question moot (YOU CAN PLUG A CONTROLLER INTO A COMPUTER)

-A higher number of available games. I'd wager that the total number of games available for PC (even discounting emulation) is significantly higher than those for consoles. Even if the PC market is lagging a good number of games are still released for PC alongside their console brethren

PC CONS

-Different components may not work very well (or at all) with each other or certain games

-Some coding/hardware inefficiencies compared to consoles (since the console game developers know exactly what the console hardware is, it's easy for them to take advantage of it)

-Require more maintenance than consoles

I've already said my piece about my preference, so right now I just want to collect thoughts and ideas together so we can act a bit more civil. Be sure to point out any additions on any front

[Calpis]

I grew up with both PC and consoles. I played all the early console (NES, SNES, Genesis) games alongside with games like Commander Keen, Duke Nukem, Wolfenstein, Doom, Descent, Warcraft, Full Throttle etcetera. My computer isn't the best (bought it 3 years ago and the only upgrades I've done are more RAM and a better monitor.) but I can't bring myself to play PC games anymore. It's such a hassle for me to install the game, correct any install errors, load up the game, download all necessary patches, and then tweak all the options to get optimal perfomance. (that's a big one for me, seriously) By the time I get all that done, which can run up to 1-4 hours, I don't feel like playing the game anymore/something else comes up/a friend calls and wants to do something more fun than wait for my computer to behave.

Most of the pro-PC gamers in this thread make statements about anti-PC gamers not 'meeting the curve' or 'slacking off' or whatever but that's exactly my point is that if I want to play a video game, I just want to play it and not have to work for it. Yeah, I've missed out on some good PC games over the years but I honestly don't want to spend that much time playing games anymore.

[Bahamut]

I honestly CAN envision a day when dedicated gaming consoles are a thing of the past, and computers take over the reigns. To me, it makes logical and fiscal sense, and COULD be a good thing. But that won't happen until it's ready to happen, and until then, certain types of games will fair better on consoles, others (I'd say fewer, for the record) will be more appropriate for PCs, and that's that.

I dunno...I can see the other way around happening when it comes to gaming, although not completely - cheapasses have resulted in companies like Intel releasing cheap video chipsets embedded into motherboards so that those who don't want to pay the extra for video cards could save more money.

And then we have that the userbase for console gaming is far more open to adapting different controllers, paving the way for innovation such as the Wii remote. However, PCs will always have the advantage of a keyboard for typing & thus are better suited for RTSs. I can see something like the Wii remote displacing the keyboard & mouse setup for FPSs eventually though as that type of technology can match the sensitivity of a mouse, if not better it, and is more natural to boot (unless your hand-eye coordination is that terrible).

Conversely, something like the Wii remote is also more concentration-intensive because any slight movement of your body can affect game control.

I don't think we'll ever see one thing displace the other, and how drastically different the gaming base for PC & console gaming tend to be seems to solidify the separation even more.

[yangfeili]

The way I do things is to buy a new PC every several years for super cheap, and then play the backlog of games I missed, again for super cheap.

At least that's what I had been doing. But the consoles are so crappy this generation, and I've been having so much fun with PC games lately (including some great import stuff from Falcom: it's pretty weird that the best console-style games I've played lately are on the PC), that I'm actually going to drop the cash to get myself a decent gaming laptop.

EDIT: And I guess I might also add that I've always been primarily a console gamer, and yet my "Top Ten List" would probably be at least 50% PC games, which is way out of proportion with the ratio of console:PC games that I've played (which is probably something like 95:5).

[Bahamut]

People do that with consoles too - I know plenty of cheapasses who just recently got a PS2 and are out picking up games for cheap. Now is also a great time to get an XBox or Gamecube for dirt cheap as well.

Also keep in mind that such a proportion of games played most likely is that PC-only gamers tend to be more selective about games on the PC since the price you pay is generally higher for longer.

[The Author]

The way I see it, it's inevitable that consoles and PCs will merge.

I frankly prefer console gaming because of the upgrade and keeping up to date issue. The rest is moot. I hate having to buy a new system (or at the very least upgrade it) every other year. Otherwise, PC gaming is fun (and I do play games like World of Warcraft on PC, its not like I'm a console only freak.)

[AMT]

Well, relative to their previous consoles/handhelds, not really - for example, one of my friend's Gamecubes fell from a table ~3 feet high and stopped functioning, whereas that wouldn't happen with the NES or SNES.

Once, my Gamecube fell off of a 4 foot surface onto a tile floor while I was playing; Wind Waker shot out of the tray and across the room on impact. I walked over, grabbed the disk, put it back in the tray, unpaused, and continued adventuring.

[Wintermute]

I must be like the only person in the world for whom the following is true, judging by the responses in thread:

1. I have a 5 year old PC.

2. I upgrade my drivers regularly because its extremely easy to do so.

3. I have had almost no hickups "installing" things.

4. Generally, new games choose optimal settings that work just fine for me.

5. HL2 EP2, Portal, TF2, and all the other recent games I've gotten installed and play without a hitch.

I have never experienced what you call "Installation Errors" or "Patching Issues." Its really not hard to keep your hardware up to date, and even easier to patch games these days with all their nice autopatching features.

That being said, I love my Nintendo Wii as it provides a gaming experience that I've never had before. I love my PS2 because of the catalog of great games that I'm still working through.

But I still primarily play games on my PC.

[irriadin]

I'm primarily a PC gamer, and while I can understand why people are frustrated with the hassles involved with PC gaming (i.e. beta drivers for game releases? Beta drivers for a game demo to run properly?!) the benefits outweigh the issues. While the strength of your rig determines your enjoyability somewhat, if you can learn to tolerate lower fps, you can make do with very affordable hardware.

Anyhow, I was able to run Crysis on a mix of high / very high with fps between 18-24 all the way until one part at the end, where I had to turn the graphics down to Medium. This is why I enjoy PC gaming... you can't get this on a console:

Crysis Pic 1

Crysis Pic 2

Crysis Pic 3

[Bahamut]

This is why I enjoy PC gaming... you can't get this on a console:

Crysis Pic 1

Crysis Pic 2

Crysis Pic 3

In a few years you will. IMO, supporting stuff like DRM & high hardware costs does not justify that.

Although I have to say, I'm incredibly tempted to buy a bunch of parts for a desktop I configured for $1200 from Newegg earlier today, including stuff like a 22" LCD monitor & a 750 GB hard drive, that should run most games just fine...at least for a few years.

[Faustt]

I haven't been a serious console gamer since the N64 era. Console games just seem limiting and less responsive to me. For almost every game I'd rather have a keyboard + mouse rather than a dual analogue setup (there are some exceptions like fighting games, which I don't care for a whole lot).

The most major thing for me missing from console games is the modding community. They are starting to catch up with downloadable content, but aside from some extra maps/songs/whatever PC is still where it's at. I paid $20 for the original half life and I *still* am playing new user created content.

To each his own though. It's all about having fun isn't it?

[BlueMage]

No it doesn't. I used to pay $50 for NES games, $70-$80 for new SNES games. Didn't bat an eye. Even if it used up all my monthly allowance at the time.

Then there is the ironclad fact that you don't need to upgrade consoles.

Hahahaha, hahahahaha, haahaha. Never tried to play Guitar Hero 3 out of the box, did you?

Perhaps not hardware upgrades, but this latest batch of consoles suffer all the same software upgrade limitations.

Also keep in mind that such a proportion of games played most likely is that PC-only gamers tend to be more selective about games on the PC since the price you pay is generally higher for longer.

O rly? I thought it was because I was a cheap bastard who is very picky about what he plays in the first place, and therefore only gets the games he really wants. Oh, and the fact that console media are the same price (or more expensive) than PC media. 120AUD for a PS3 game? Please, Ridge Racer isn't that good.

Also, what DRM issues? I've not yet had a DRM issue. I dunno, maybe I just take good care of my rig.

[Bahamut]

Also, what DRM issues? I've not yet had a DRM issue. I dunno, maybe I just take good care of my rig.

I've encountered plenty, such as not being able to play my legit copy of Civilization 4 with Daemon Tools open, and heard of plenty, such as the massive outcry over it in Bioshock.