What soundcard should I buy?

[zircon]

A simple question... or is it? Your sound card or audio interface is important if you are interested in music production & ReMixing. Here is a brief rundown - read carefully!! All prices are in US dollars. If the terms confuse you, scroll to the bottom of this post and you will see a glossary of terms. Each listing also links to a picture of the card or a product page so you can do further research.

PCI Cards (Desktop)
Emu 0404 (http://www.zzounds.com/item--EMU8803) - $100 - This is a great all-around soundcard for anyone interested in music production. It has a low noise level, various analog & digital ins and outs (through "breakout cables" - see the pic) as well as a very powerful software mixing system. The drivers have been known to be a little unstable in some applications (eg. FLStudio) but overall, this card performs better than any consumer-level card and is highly flexible. The internal software also has built in DSP effects which will not affect your computer's processor, great if you do a lot of recording and want to add some EQ, compression, or reverb without burdening your cpu.

Emu 1212M (http://www.zzounds.com/item--EMU1212M) - $150 - The next step up from the 0404, capable of running at higher sampling rates. Recording quality is slightly higher than the 0404.

EMU 161M (http://www.zzounds.com/item--EMU1616MPCI) - $450 - The big daddy of EMU cards, this is a full fledged interface with fantastic sound quality. If you are really serious about recording, this is a great solution. However if you do most things "in the box" (eg. software only) this will be excessive.

M-Audio Audiophile 192 (http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOAP192) - $180 - Comparable to the EMU 1212M in terms of features. My personal preference has been EMU products over M-Audio as the latter seems to use lower quality components than its competitors so it can mass-produce them. However, you should do your own research and read reviews to decide for yourself.

Echo Mia MIDI (http://www.zzounds.com/item--ECHMIAMIDI) - $130 - Another competitor in the lower price range. Echo products are considered to be fairly high quality.

RME HDSP 9632 Hammerfall DSP 24/96 (http://www.zzounds.com/item--RMEHDSP9632) - $600 - OK, so this is getting into the *really* high end. However, Hammerfall makes the best of the best. If you have no idea what to do with your money and want a killer sound card that will offer the cleanest sound and most efficient drivers, this is your card...

PCMCIA Cards (Laptop)
Echo Indigo IO Stereo 24/96 (http://www.zzounds.com/item--ECHINDIGOIO) - $200 - Not exactly cheap, but a good solution if you want an internal sound card for your laptop that will provide pro sound quality.

EMU 1616 Laptop (http://www.zzounds.com/item--EMU1616) - $400 - Just like the 1616M, except... "portable". A high end solution, but worth considering if you don't want to compromise.

USB Interfaces
EMU 0404 USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface (http://www.zzounds.com/item--EMU0404) - $200 - A slightly upgraded version of the PCI 0404 (in terms of converters) and physical control to boot. Good if you are a laptop user and like the EMU line.

EMU 0202 USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface (http://www.zzounds.com/item--EMU0202) - $115 - This is a step down from the USB 0404. If you're not going to be recording much, no big deal. It will still perform better than your average laptop soundcard. If you plan on doing a lot of recording, however, and you want as clean a sound as possible, consider something in a slightly higher price range.

M-Audio Audiophile USB (http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOAPUSB) - $160 - Just like with the PCI Audiophile, this is a competitor to the EMU line in terms of price range. Similar features, but check the reviews for both.

Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 (http://www.zzounds.com/item--NINAUDIOKONTROL) - $250 - Though normally residing in the market of software instruments, NI has produced a good audio interface. Good drivers, clean sound, sleek design, and comes with a nice bundle of NI software. If you're starting from a clean slate this might be a good idea.

Edirol UA25 (http://www.zzounds.com/item--EDIUA25) - $240 - Touted as a very rugged and road-ready interface, if you plan on bringing around a laptop all over the place while recording, and don't want to settle for a cheaper interface, this may be what you want. Plus, Edirol is a good company!

Digidesign Mbox 2 (http://www.zzounds.com/item--DGDMB2) - $450 - This is a combo hardware/software product, as you get Pro Tools LE with it. Much like the other, more expensive options listed so far, this is not worth it if you are only looking to ReMix or produce music as a hobby. However, if you want the next step up in terms of low-noise, solid drivers, and powerful software, The Mbox/ProTools combo is attractive.

Firewire Interfaces
Presonus Firebox (http://www.zzounds.com/item--PRSFIREBOX) - $300 - Ahh.. the Firebox. I've been using one of these for a few weeks now, and my roommate had the expanded version, the Firepod. They're very good in terms of sound quality and the drivers are ROCK solid. Reasonably priced too. My only complaint is the mixing software is a little weak... you can't do a lot of routing with it, as compared to EMU's products w/ Patchmix. Still, recommended.

Presonus Firepod (http://www.zzounds.com/item--PRSFIREPOD) - $500 - If you plan on doing lots of recording from multiple sources, such as a whole band, multiple vocalists, multiple synths, etc... this is a very good choice. No need to spend hundreds of dollars more on an external mixer!

Presonus Inspire 1394 (http://www.zzounds.com/item--PRSINSPIRE) - $200 - If the Firebox and Firepod are a little too big for you, the Inspire holds its own and since it's by the same company, you know the quality will be good. A good choice if budget is an issue but you need to go Firewire.

Behringer FCA202 F-Control (http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHFCA202) - $80 - Behringer isn't exactly known for their high quality audio products. However, if you absolutely can't spend much on an interface, this is what you want. It'll still be better than your average Realtek or Sigmatel audio card!

So... what card should I buy?
My personal recommendations are the EMU 0404 and Firebox. The former if budget is an issue - it's still an excellent card, and the latter if you want more power. If you're going to do a lot of recording, I can't help but recommend the Firepod. If you want some nice bundled software, the MBox 2 or Audio Kontrol 1 are both advisable, though the MBox is somewhat pricey.

In general, don't skimp. If your budget is $200, buy a card or interface that is $200. With audio gear, you generally get what you pay for. If you decide to upgrade later because you want to take music more seriously, or you want to do more recording, or whatever else, you can't get a hardware discount. Buy a $100 interface at first and you'll have to spend another $200-300 on top of that for your new, better one (maybe more). Start out with the more expensive interface and you'll have room to grow. Plus, the higher-end ones resell a lot more easily so if you DON'T like it, it won't be as hard to get rid of.

Glossary
XLR - A type of larger connection with three holes, typically used for plugging in mics. IMAGE (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Xlr-connectors.jpg/180px-Xlr-connectors.jpg)
TRS - A common audio connector used to connect all sorts of devices, from headphones, to guitars, and more. Typically 1/8 inch or 1/4 inch. IMAGE (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Photo-audiojacks.jpg/250px-Photo-audiojacks.jpg)
PCI - An internal connection type in desktop computers, used with long "cards" that attach directly to the motherboard. All desktop computers have at least a couple PCI ports, which can be used for a number of purposes, from network cards, to USB extensions, to sound cards, and more.
PCMCIA - A PCI-like interface for laptop computers. Again, many things can be installed using it including sound cards.
PCI-e - An improved form of PCI for desktops. This is mostly used for graphics cards currently.
ASIO - A software interface between an application and your sound card. Better ASIO drivers mean lower latency and less CPU usage. It is also more flexible than DirectSound, which is what most generic sound cards for Windows use.

Feel free to post here if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions.

[avaris]

good stuff, def a topic that needed to be made.

[Sir_NutS]

Just noticed this thread. I have been researching and asking and have heard good things about the 0404, I think I will get one.

[Swarmer]

What's the difference between gaming soundcards and audio production soundcards? Other than having more input options, are audio production cards basically the same (given the same specifications)?
Also, for something like the 0404, would I be able to hook it up to a 5.1 or 7.1 channel sound system?

[ShadowZero26]

Can I use the Emu 0404 USB 2.0 with my Vista laptop? Zzounds says that the "limited edition" white model comes with vista support, but will I be able to find that?

[gamel]

My personal recommendations are the EMU 0404 and Firebox. The former if budget is an issue - it's still an excellent card, and the latter if you want more power. If you're going to do a lot of recording, I can't help but recommend the Firepod. If you want some nice bundled software, the MBox 2 or Audio Kontrol 1 are both advisable, though the MBox is somewhat pricey. In general, don't skimp. If your budget is $200, buy a card or interface that is $200. With audio gear, you generally get what you pay for. If you decide to upgrade later because you want to take music more seriously, or you want to do more recording, or whatever else, you can't get a hardware discount. Buy a $100 interface at first and you'll have to spend another $200-300 on top of that for your new, better one (maybe more). Start out with the more expensive interface and you'll have room to grow. Plus, the higher-end ones resell a lot more easily so if you DON'T like it, it won't be as hard to get rid of.

[ShadowZero26]

Also, my keyboard uses USB to interface. Would the setup be Keyboard to Laptop to Emu 0404 out? How effective is this?

[ShadowZero26]

So, no one's used the EMU 0404 with Vista or with a USB keyboard?

[BlackPanther]

This thread helped me a lot. I looked at all of the different ones and since I'm still sorta new at all of this, I went with the Emu 1212m model. Can't wait till it comes in I can test out my new headphones with that as well =).

[JasonP27]

after I get my USB keyboard, I'll need a better sound card to reduce/eliminate latency... however, after I buy my USB keyboard I won't be able to afford much regarding a sound card... I won't need to record using the inputs, or need digital in/out, or MIDI ports or anything like that... I will just want the latency to be gone as best as possible for a cheaper card...

will the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme accomplish that? would anyone recommend it?

[Harmony]

after I get my USB keyboard, I'll need a better sound card to reduce/eliminate latency... however, after I buy my USB keyboard I won't be able to afford much regarding a sound card... I won't need to record using the inputs, or need digital in/out, or MIDI ports or anything like that... I will just want the latency to be gone as best as possible for a cheaper card...

will the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme accomplish that? would anyone recommend it?
If you're only able to spend ~$50 and you're not looking to record, the X-Fi Xtreme isn't the worst card in the world. I'm not so sure that it's any better than the cheaper 7.1 Audigy cards though.

In any case, the fact that it's PCI gives you the possibility of very low latency, and if you were connecting via a MIDI port on the card itself (I don't think the Xtreme has this option), you could get one of the lowest latencies possible with any card. But with the USB connection, I would think that the Creative drivers will be a big factor in what your latency will be.

Are those drivers good? I'm not entirely sure.

[JasonP27]

I just bought a Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme... but not the cheap one... I got the X-Fi XtremeMusic, cause it supports ASIO 2 for low latency and what not. The RRP (MSRP) for it was around $300 AUD ($240 USD) a few years ago, but I've found at some online shops from $160 AUD - $230 AUD. Anyhow, I got it off eBay for $90 AUD ($36 of that is just the shipping from USA). I won't be getting my MIDI keyboard controller (probably Oxygen 61) for months though :(

[Bancato]

if you were connecting via a MIDI port on the card itself
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[kenshin05]

Hello, i just got a EMU 1212M but i don't have any jack 3,5mm out to put any headphone,

I have TRS, TS righ, left out
Digital Optical ADAT out
Analog Optical RCA out^^

well it's a problem,
any way by converter or anything to plug a jack 3,5mm in ?

[BlackPanther]

3.5? What kind of headphones are those? From the sound of it, looks like you're gonna have to buy a 3.5 -> 1/4 in adapter which looks like this (http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Stereo-Jack-Plug-Adapter/dp/B0002ZPFD0). Then you would have to buy a spliter that goes from one female to two male, somethin like this (http://www.musicarts.com/Monster-Cable-MCL-FST2M--1-4--Stereo-Female-to--2--1-4-Mono-Male-330056-i1172767.mac)

[kenshin05]

Humm a common Headphone at this moment, i will change it soon too,
yes that must work,

i have see also a Digital Optical to jack 3,5, but i think it will not work^^

the very common headphone i have at the moment^^ : http://cgi.befr.ebay.be/Casque-headphone-audio-Ifrogz-Nerve-Pipe-Black-GOLD_W0QQitemZ300359756555QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_23?hash=item45eed62b0b

[prophetik music]

looking into getting a really good soundcard at some point relatively soon. time to revamp my home studio. a few questions, though.

i'm going to (eventually) be getting the following:
yamaha hs50m powered monitors (http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-HS50M-5-Powered-Studio-Monitor-Each?sku=601417) x2
yamaha hs10w powered sub (http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-HS10W-8-Powered-Studio-Monitor-Subwoofer?sku=601419)
audio-technica atm450 condenser (http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/AudioTechnica-ATM450-Condenser-Instrument-Microphone?sku=270315) x2 (possibly, hvaen't decided yet)

with this comes the need to get a good soundcard or audio interface. i currently use a mobilepre with my desktop, which by definition isn't the best idea (but it'll be able to handle the output for the subs and inputs from the mics if needed). it's a usb-based interface, though, so i'm worried about overloading the usb bus.

thing is, i'd also like to be able to run midi from my axiom 49 (and possibly a 76-key no-frills controller at some point) into this to reduce the lag that usb currently gives me.

i'm assuming i'd need an external interface for the amount of inputs and outputs i want. is firewire my only option, or is there something that hooks up through a pci or pci-x slot and uses a cable or something to go to the external interface?

so, i'm looking for an audio card that supports the following:
:4-8 inputs, preferably 8
:xlr or 1/4" output, preferably both
:midi inputs of some kind. i'd prefer it if it had inputs for two different keyboards - should i get a splitter or something, or what?
:complete flexibility and workability with windows 7 64-bit (or xp 64-bit, if not)

i'm comfortable spending around 400-500$ for this, but if i need to spend more to get significantly more value out of it, i'm kind of ok with that. i don't want this to be some $2k monster, though.

i'm looking at the presonus firestudio project or the focusrite saffire pro 40 right now. i've never used firewire before. anything to know about it? i'm also looking at the delta 1010 pci setup, with the big cable to a rack-mount setup. i like the concept, but it's more than i would like to spend.

[Harmony]

Upgrades are always fun. My 2 cents on some of your questions:

i currently use a mobilepre with my desktop, which by definition isn't the best idea I like to think of the "mobile" preface to be an added feature, not an indication that the device is somehow not optimized for desktop use.

it's a usb-based interface, though, so i'm worried about overloading the usb bus. I know there's the whole idea of usb not being as "smart" about it's data transfer as fw, but I just don't see running into issues of overloading the usb bus. I piped stuff into my FastTrack Pro (a mobile usb 1.1 interface!) like a madman and didn't have significantly more problems with it than I've had with my ProFire 2626.


thing is, i'd also like to be able to run midi from my axiom 49 (and possibly a 76-key no-frills controller at some point) into this to reduce the lag that usb currently gives me.Not exactly sure what you mean here. If you connect via midi cable to a usb interface, the data transfer is still "limited" by the usb of the interface. And there's really no perceptible limitation. While latency can come from a variety of sources, the latency introduced directly between your controller and the processor is completely insignificant when compared to the latency added by the time it takes your cpu to crunch the numbers and tell your daw to tell your audio card to tell your monitors to play a sound. Even going to fw isn't going to dramatically change your latency, all else equal. I get the basically the same latency on my fancy ProFire as I do with my usb 1.1 FastTrack pro. Bottom line: reduce latency by getting a faster cpu.

i'm assuming i'd need an external interface for the amount of inputs and outputs i want. is firewire my only option No. Like you said, you can go usb (http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOFTULTRA), fw (http://www.zzounds.com/item--FOCSAFFPRO40) or pci (http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOD1010E) and get the same functionality. The differences are primarily ease of connection, compatibility, potential latency, and cost.

:midi inputs of some kind. i'd prefer it if it had inputs for two different keyboards - should i get a splitter or something, or what?You've got options. The easiest and I'd say best way would be to hook your axiom up via usb. It'll be bus powered and you can easily transfer presets without having to plug it up each time (yeah I know, I don't do that often either, but w/e). Then you could use the interface's midi port for the other controller.

The axiom can also function as a midi interface where you could plug it up via usb, plug another midi controller up to it's midi in port, and still have the midi in/out on your interface free for another device.

If you're dead set on using midi cables, you could buy a midi patch bay or small dedicated 2x2 midi interface that would allow you to directly connect both to the interface and share the 16 channels of midi between the two devices. But this is just overkill for a couple of controllers.


i'm looking at the presonus firestudio project or the focusrite saffire pro 40 right now. I was recently in the market, and Jimmy advised me against the firestudio project, having had a number of problems with a number of different units during his time at guitar center. The saffire pro I haven't heard much about, but it's in that same ultra budget price range as the firestudio project which would make me wary. For the same price, I'd probably go with the sexier usb 2.0 Lexicon Ionix U82S (http://www.zzounds.com/item--LEXIONIXU82S). If you can splurge though, I've been overjoyed with the ProFire 2626 which is at $672 on amazon right now. Wait for a sale and you can get it $100 bucks cheaper.

[prophetik music]

huh. i was under the impression that you couldn't use usb for real-time recording, and that firewire was the only way to reduce your latency down to easy levels.

i wasn't saying that the mobilepre was bad for what i've got, i was more saying that i just didn't want to use something as basic as that for my interface. mainly, i want more recording channels and a midi i/o on a system that wasn't bus-powered.

i completely forgot about a 2x2 interface. they're cheap, i'll look into one of those.

500$ is ultra-budget range? =( =( =( i thought i was going mid-line or so. i'll look into the ionix and the profire 2626.

so now i've got four options, with a black mark on one. anyone else have opinions of the presonus, saffire pro 40, ionix, or profire?

initial thoughts: the firestudio and the saffire pro allow you to assign phantom power per two-channel sets. the profile's got it in sets of four. not a big fan of that...ok, carry on.

[Harmony]

huh. i was under the impression that you couldn't use usb for real-time recording, and that firewire was the only way to reduce your latency down to easy levels.I recorded 2 simultaneous audio sources at 24/48 with 2.7-5.8ms latency routinely with my usb 1.1 interface (FastTrack Pro). I can't do better than that with my FW interface. What kind of latency are you seeing with the mobile-pre?

i wasn't saying that the mobilepre was bad for what i've got, i was more saying that i just didn't want to use something as basic as that for my interface. mainly, i want more recording channels and a midi i/o on a system that wasn't bus-powered. understandable; I would want to use that as my primary either considering the upgrades you're talking about. Bus power has it's advantages in our price range though. The fw interface I have now is not bus powered and uses a power cord with a transformer. Those transformers are notorious for introducing interference with audio signals, and yeah I hear the interference from mine. You've gotta route your audio very carefully around it just to minimize that. Secondly, if you lose or damage yours, replacing it isn't always cheap or easy. More expensive units have internal power supplies that eliminate the need for the transformer.
i completely forgot about a 2x2 interface. they're cheap, i'll look into one of those.again, if you're planning to get some hardware synths with midi, sure. But for your controllers, especially anything with a usb port, don't waste your money - you won't gain any speed.

500$ is ultra-budget range? =( =( =( i thought i was going mid-line or so.For 8 pre amps, yeah that's budget. Consider it on a per-pre basis (one of the most expensive components). A great pre amp alone like Avalon or Greatriver will cost you $1000 or more per channel. A mid level pre like the p-solo will cost you $500 per channel. You're looking at paying less than $100 for each preamp and in real terms its even less because the audio interface includes other semi-expensive items like AD converters.

the firestudio and the saffire pro allow you to assign phantom power per two-channel sets. the profile's got it in sets of four. not a big fan of thateh, the only way I could see that being a problem is if you were connecting either more than 4 ribbon mics (lucky rich bastard) or more than 4 condensers and a ribbon mic. If not, then just keep the ribbons on 1-4 or 5-8 and you'll never risk damaging them because you thought you were only turning the power off on condensers or dynamics. If you don't have any ribbon mics, this is essentially irrelevant.

[prophetik music]

maybe i'm not reading something right.

i want to be able to take eight inputs into my system and spit at least two out (for my monitors). i was under the impression that, in order to be able to hook up eight mono mics or four stereo mics to that, i'd need eight preamps. is that a mistaken idea, or am i missing something?

if that's such a big issue, would going down to four inputs/preamps cut the price by enough that i could still get something quality and not have to worry about cutting corners so much?

[Harmony]

No, that's right. 8 preamps for 8 mic recording sources. Note though that preamps are only needed for sources (like mics) that are not line-level. Preamps are not required for electric guitars or for hardware synths, for example. So #inputs you need doesn't necessarily equal #preamps. Every interface I know of gives you at least two outs, and many give you more for flexibility.

It comes down to personal choice at some point. imo, look at what you want and buy the absolute best that you can afford. If you want to get 5-8 mic inputs at a time into you software, go for something with at least 8 preamps. Settling for less would personally frustrate the hell out of me. So if you want 8 but can only afford the saffire, I say go for it. As I've said, I was in your position where I wanted 8 but had initially budgeted for the $500 firestudio project. I ended up pushing that budget up closer to $700 (even though I got lucky and found what I wanted for $600), but now I am totally confident that I have one of the best products in our class. That confidence, more than the actual features, is where I feel the additional money went.

Example: When Win 7 came out, M-Audio was very open about the progress of their drivers. They released betas which worked great, as do the the final versions. The Sapphire interfaces still use Vista drivers and I'm not even sure they have one for 64bit. When I shell out $500 or more for something, I don't want headaches like hoping my drivers work, or worrying about shady tech support (M-Audio has the best tech support I've ever had to deal with), or worrying that my unit will die a few months down the road.

[suzumebachi]

huh. i was under the impression that you couldn't use usb for real-time recording, and that firewire was the only way to reduce your latency down to easy levels.

i wasn't saying that the mobilepre was bad for what i've got, i was more saying that i just didn't want to use something as basic as that for my interface. mainly, i want more recording channels and a midi i/o on a system that wasn't bus-powered.

i completely forgot about a 2x2 interface. they're cheap, i'll look into one of those.

500$ is ultra-budget range? =( =( =( i thought i was going mid-line or so. i'll look into the ionix and the profire 2626.

so now i've got four options, with a black mark on one. anyone else have opinions of the presonus, saffire pro 40, ionix, or profire?

initial thoughts: the firestudio and the saffire pro allow you to assign phantom power per two-channel sets. the profile's got it in sets of four. not a big fan of that...ok, carry on.

without looking at prices or doing any more in depth research, my vote's for saffire. focusrite makes some of the best pre-amps anywhere. pre-amps do make a difference.

also i'm probably biased--i use a focusrite saffire le as my workhorse for both live and studio work

[prophetik music]

Example: When Win 7 came out, M-Audio was very open about the progress of their drivers. They released betas which worked great, as do the the final versions. The Sapphire interfaces still use Vista drivers and I'm not even sure they have one for 64bit. When I shell out $500 or more for something, I don't want headaches like hoping my drivers work, or worrying about shady tech support (M-Audio has the best tech support I've ever had to deal with), or worrying that my unit will die a few months down the road.

i'm still trying to figure out drivers, too. the presonus and saffire both work with xp 64-bit, but i can't seem to find anything on focusrite's website about w7 compatibility (seems shady, since the beta's been out since last year). presonus says that they're going to have w7 support 'soon'.

the profire does support w7 64-bit, definitely? if so, then that'll be the one i go with when the money's in hand. i'm not looking to buy tomorrow, i'm looking to buy when i've got the money from a composing gig i'm doing. might be a few months, might be six or more...and a lot changes in six months on the software front.

[Lunahorum]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220578061982#ht_1847wt_1165

selling a cheap m-audio 2496. Perfect for someone looking to get their foot in the door.

[dariunas]

I can vouch for the quality of M-Audio Delta cards. I have a 24/96 and a Delta 1010 (with the rackmount)

You could look into the M-Audio Delta 1010LT, which has a lot more connectivity options for less. However, you can pick up a full Delta 1010 unit, preowned for not too much.

Another option is to go for a solid card with less connectivity like the Audiophile 24/96 and then plump for a nice outboard mixer. But of course this means you'd have to get all your levels right in the mixer, and you will only be able to treat your entire mixer output as one audio stream within you DAW :|

I have no opnion on other cards as I simply haven't used them, but from other forums, I have heard promising things about the quality of Focusrite's pre-amps on their interfaces and dedicated pre-amp units.

[Brandon Strader]

Would a soundcard help me be able to run 10 instruments of EWQLSO, 5 instances of amp sim, and any other effects I need? Cause that's something I can't do now and I've heard people say "ram", "processor", etc... but nobody ever said it was due to not having a powerful enough soundcard.

I have an SB Live! 24-bit soundcard and Alesis io|26 firewire recording interface. The recording works perfectly and I have up to 8 phantom-powered inputs. :-P

[prophetik music]

all that stuff you're talking about is software. a soundcard won't help with that. you just need to check the link in my sig to fix all that =)

[Brandon Strader]

Computer hardware eh? I just bought a new 1TB hard drive to replace my 160gb one which was full. Apart from that, my hardware is pretty good :p

Pentium 4 dual 2.80GHz and 2.75gb RAM on a stripped-down XP

[zircon]

Well, that's not really accurate. Crappy soundcards have crappy, non-ASIO drivers that are incredibly inefficient. I remember back when I had an EMU0404 on a Pentium 3ghz, I was able to run at lower buffer settings with fewer pops and crackles simply by upgrading to a Presonus Firebox. Now, the EMU0404 isn't even a bad card, and an SB Live! is. While ultimately the best way to run more plugins at lower buffers is a faster computer, upgrading to a better interface will definitely help.

[prophetik music]

Computer hardware eh? I just bought a new 1TB hard drive to replace my 160gb one which was full. Apart from that, my hardware is pretty good :p

Pentium 4 dual 2.80GHz and 2.75gb RAM on a stripped-down XP

a pentium dual-core is five generations behind current cpu technology. not to mention that the motherboard's chipsets are likely trash from being so old.

[Brandon Strader]

It's not much slower than most processors I've been looking at... some are 2.5, some are 2.7, etc... I saw one that was 3.2. Is it just the matter of being old, or the way they used to design them, that makes it not as effective?

[prophetik music]

you're forgetting that even though the ghz rating is the same, optimizations in processor speed increase with each generation. read the faq in my signature - specifically, the section on moore's law. it'll explain a lot.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

So I just learned that Windows 7 64-bit compatible drivers do not exist for my creamware card.

What soundcards are currently available (preferably for $300 or less) that are compatible with 64 bit windows 7?

[Harmony]

So I just learned that Windows 7 64-bit compatible drivers do not exist for my creamware card.

What soundcards are currently available (preferably for $300 or less) that are compatible with 64 bit windows 7?

All of M-Audio's newer stuff works: Profire 610, Profire 410, FastTrack Ultra, FastTrack Pro, etc.

[prophetik music]

focusrite's saffire soundcards and preamps work fine. i've got a pro 40 that's excellent. mind you, i use w7 32-bit, but the drivers are supposed to work fine with both.

[SonicThHedgog]

Any audio interface that work as a preamp as well?

[prophetik music]

Any audio interface that work as a preamp as well?

how about every one that has recording inputs.

[Aaron Marshall]

Save your money up and get a good sound interface. Take it from someone who has owned more soundcards than you can count on two hands. I finally invested in an RME Multiface and it's one of the smartest audio purchases I've made in my time. It's built like I tank and I never have to worry about audio problem from it. It just works.

I recommend getting an RME Multiface, or RME 9632 if you're on a PC. The driver support isn't as good on a Mac. It's ok.

If you're on a Mac go for a MOTU 2408, or the MOTU 828mk3. MOTU stuff is ok on a PC. Their support is kind of backwards to RME. Their customer base is largely Mac so they stay on top of it. Another reason MOTU works better on Mac is they have consistent Firewire ports, whereas PC's vary from machine to machine. They're more predictable and tested on a Mac.

You can get a used 828 MK2 for not that much on ebay. It should fit within your $300 budget. If you have to spend more, do it. The audio interface can make your life miserable if you buy the wrong one.

Stay away from Echo Audio, M-Audio, Presonus, EMU, Focusrite. I wouldn't even toy with anything that wasn't RME or MOTU.

[Ghetto Lee Lewis]

If I'm going to use a sound card strictly for recording midi from a keyboard, is basically anything with midi ins/outs and ASIO support for Windows 7 64 acceptable? Or will I get better latency buying a higher end sound card? I don't care about live audio.

The sample libraries I have are very large and high quality (i.e. Tonehammer Emotional Piano), and I want to play live with as very little latency as possible (under 10 ms would be nice).

Compatibility with FL Studio would be a plus, but if I have to switch to a better DAW with support for Kontakt 4 and better driver support I will.

I'm currently using a cheap laptop, but plan on eventually building something really nice, probably an Intel I7, 24 gigs of Ram, SSD hard drives, the works. I need a good sound card to pair up with it that can handle all the audio processing I need for hundreds of gigs worth of sample libraries and massive orchestral/fusion arrangements. I assume that a cheap sound card can potentially create a bottleneck on an otherwise good system.

I probably won't get the low latency midi I need until I get a new computer, even with a godly USB soundcard. I already maxed out the RAM on my laptop to 4 gigs, but have a lousy CPU.

[SonicThHedgog]

how about every one that has recording inputs.
not all of them support high impencence signal (wow i think i spellt that wrong)

[Neblix]

not all of them support high impencence signal (wow i think i spellt that wrong)

Sound it out. :P

If I'm going to use a sound card strictly for recording midi from a keyboard, is basically anything with midi ins/outs and ASIO support for Windows 7 64 acceptable? Or will I get better latency buying a higher end sound card? I don't care about live audio.

The sample libraries I have are very large and high quality (i.e. Tonehammer Emotional Piano), and I want to play live with as very little latency as possible (under 10 ms would be nice).

Compatibility with FL Studio would be a plus, but if I have to switch to a better DAW with support for Kontakt 4 and better driver support I will.

I'm currently using a cheap laptop, but plan on eventually building something really nice, probably an Intel I7, 24 gigs of Ram, SSD hard drives, the works. I need a good sound card to pair up with it that can handle all the audio processing I need for hundreds of gigs worth of sample libraries and massive orchestral/fusion arrangements. I assume that a cheap sound card can potentially create a bottleneck on an otherwise good system.

I probably won't get the low latency midi I need until I get a new computer, even with a godly USB soundcard. I already maxed out the RAM on my laptop to 4 gigs, but have a lousy CPU.

Sound cards are never bottlenecks until you want to record. I think buying an expensive sound card is an extremely haphazard choice just for MIDI. If you're running an i7, then using your keyboard's USB connector (if it doesn't have one, you can get a converter) with ASIO4ALL at a lower buffer rate should get you the latency you need. If you REALLY want dedicated I/O for recording, I suggest the USB (firewire is "faster" but USB is fast enough for the # of I/O's on this one) Audio Kontrol 1. Has MIDI I/O, one XLR OR 1/4" and one 1/4" inputs, 2 pairs of stereo 1/4" outputs, a headphone jack, and phantom power for mic. Also has a few buttons and a big knob. You can asign these to do whatever the hell (including combinations of different buttons pressed or turning the knob while pressing a specific one).

[SonicThHedgog]

Sound it out. :P



I'll rather not sound it out :sleepzzz:

[SonicThHedgog]

If I'm going to use a sound card strictly for recording midi from a keyboard, is basically anything with midi ins/outs and ASIO support for Windows 7 64 acceptable? Or will I get better latency buying a higher end sound card? I don't care about live audio.

The sample libraries I have are very large and high quality (i.e. Tonehammer Emotional Piano), and I want to play live with as very little latency as possible (under 10 ms would be nice).

Compatibility with FL Studio would be a plus, but if I have to switch to a better DAW with support for Kontakt 4 and better driver support I will.

I'm currently using a cheap laptop, but plan on eventually building something really nice, probably an Intel I7, 24 gigs of Ram, SSD hard drives, the works. I need a good sound card to pair up with it that can handle all the audio processing I need for hundreds of gigs worth of sample libraries and massive orchestral/fusion arrangements. I assume that a cheap sound card can potentially create a bottleneck on an otherwise good system.

I probably won't get the low latency midi I need until I get a new computer, even with a godly USB soundcard. I already maxed out the RAM on my laptop to 4 gigs, but have a lousy CPU.

If your on your laptop i agree a maudio fastrack , a kore audio 1 as said already or a E-MU 0404 usb would be a good for your needs, but im not sure to ither get a E-MU 0404 or a M-Audio fast track pro.

[Brandon Strader]

I get almost unworkable latency with my firewire audio device PHANTOM POWER (regular is fine) that almost turns me off making music altogether (probably around 20ms or around there), but USB is so much worse. Yeah, I used some USB devices in a pinch. I wouldn't recommend that at all. Even with ASIO drivers, it's not ideal in the least. I would say it's far past workable, if I still just had the USB devices I probably would have quit music by now. :-(

[Neblix]

I get almost unworkable latency with my firewire audio device PHANTOM POWER (regular is fine) that almost turns me off making music altogether (probably around 20ms or around there), but USB is so much worse. Yeah, I used some USB devices in a pinch. I wouldn't recommend that at all. Even with ASIO drivers, it's not ideal in the least. I would say it's far past workable, if I still just had the USB devices I probably would have quit music by now. :-(

You have extremely bad luck, because I have a USB powered interface and the latency is nothing but workable all the way up to the last overhead setting (multimedia/games).
I guess that could say a lot about Audio Kontrol 1. :P


Sure, he's gonna have to lower his buffer rate a little, but with an i7 powered computer buffer rate vs. latency should be the least of his issues.

I'll rather not sound it out :sleepzzz:
Takes more work to tell me you don't want to than to correct your spelling.

[BlackPanther]

I get almost unworkable latency with my firewire audio device PHANTOM POWER (regular is fine) that almost turns me off making music altogether (probably around 20ms or around there), but USB is so much worse. Yeah, I used some USB devices in a pinch. I wouldn't recommend that at all. Even with ASIO drivers, it's not ideal in the least. I would say it's far past workable, if I still just had the USB devices I probably would have quit music by now. :-(

Oh wow, glad that didn't stop making music then =).

I chose to get the E-MU 1212m and later bought the breakout box which upgrades it to 1616m? Either way, been using the soundcard for about 2 years now (Microdock came about a whole 'nother year later) and I love everything about it. Hopefully soon I can get a decent mic so I can use the preamps on the breakout box which I heard were good, like stuff from Protools hardware.

The built in dsp effects are pretty good, although I haven't really incorporated them into my song yet, I will eventually =D just been doin a lot of experimenting with em

I don't really have any latency issues. I can go as far down as 7 ms.

My only real issue with lag or anything like that is the nature of the usage of my computer. While this is my serious music rig. It's also the only computer in the house so I let everyone else use it as well which in turn slows down the comp quite a bit and sometimes I see that.

[Neblix]

I don't really have any latency issues. I can go as far down as 7 ms.


Just if anyone's wondering, Audio Kontrol 1 can get 9 ms.

[Brandon Strader]

My interface actually works really well, with a non-noticeable latency if I use the direct monitoring instead of listening to its playback through the program. The main thing is the phantom power, for some reason the latency is so bad that I have to actually zoom in and drag all of my phantom power recorded, like, acoustic guitar tracks forward. <_< I don't know if that's an issue with my computer (probably), the drivers, or some kind of power source not being strong enuffs. I recorded some tambourine yesterday and even had to drag those forward to match the beat. Kinda lame. And it's the same across each program, cause I used Audition 3 yesterday for that.

And I only figured this out like... mid-february, so my mixes before that have this in them and they might be noticeable. I was trying to play sooner to compensate. :/

Incase anyone's wondering and to get back on topic, I'm using the Alesis io|26 firewire.. 8 simultaneous inputs of goodness but I've only ever used 4 at once. :-)

[Neblix]

My interface actually works really well, with a non-noticeable latency if I use the direct monitoring instead of listening to its playback through the program. The main thing is the phantom power, for some reason the latency is so bad that I have to actually zoom in and drag all of my phantom power recorded, like, acoustic guitar tracks forward. <_< I don't know if that's an issue with my computer (probably), the drivers, or some kind of power source not being strong enuffs. I recorded some tambourine yesterday and even had to drag those forward to match the beat. Kinda lame. And it's the same across each program, cause I used Audition 3 yesterday for that.
I have no experience with the Phantom Power input on my interface (no microphone, I don't sing or have acoustic guitar T_T) but recording electric guitar is doable for me, listening through FL Studio through Guitar Rig 4 Pro.

[SonicThHedgog]

Takes more work to tell me you don't want to than to correct your spelling.
I do Dat Work :razz:

[LuIzA]

What soundcard should I buy?

Well, I can tell "you" what NOT to buy, and that is the Mackie Blackjack, particularly if one is a windows user. Its drivers are USELESS and Mackie refuses to update them.

Want the same mobility, sturdiness, high-quality pre's and USB power? buy the Focusrite Saffire 6 instead.

[prophetik music]

focusrite's preamps are awesome, if i haven't already said so. great stuff.

[skewered logic]

focusrite's preamps are awesome, if i haven't already said so. great stuff.

Those liquid preamps... so freaking awesome

[prophetik music]

exactly =)

[BooDidley7]

Just wondering since, Zircon's initial post is from 2007, and a lot of the last few pages have been talking about pre-amps, and external devices, would any one recommend any other sound cards today?

I see the EMU 1212M is still available. Forgive me, I know next to nothing about sound cards, but are the cards being discussed here basically for input?

I'm not looking to remix, but maybe record non-musical audio, and I definitely need something that has clean playback.

[Neblix]

Just wondering since, Zircon's initial post is from 2007, and a lot of the last few pages have been talking about pre-amps, and external devices, would any one recommend any other sound cards today?

I see the EMU 1212M is still available. Forgive me, I know next to nothing about sound cards, but are the cards being discussed here basically for input?

I'm not looking to remix, but maybe record non-musical audio, and I definitely need something that has clean playback.

If you need recording inputs, get a sound card. If you don't, then don't.

[BooDidley7]

If you need recording inputs, get a sound card. If you don't, then don't.

Let me elaborate, I'm doing mostly video editing, but I may need to record clean audio for voice overs, etc.

I also need something that can give me a clean output (no computer noise), for mastering the audio and getting a accurate sense of the mix.

Everyone says stay away from Creative, some say avoid others, and since Zircon's initial post was from 2007, I was wondering if there was anything else recommended in terms of Sound Cards.

[Neblix]

I also need something that can give me a clean output (no computer noise), for mastering the audio and getting a accurate sense of the mix.


If you need a recording input for an XLR or Line In mic (not a USB), get a recording interface/sound card. Actually, I'm pretty sure a little converter box would do the trick, no need for a sound card. As for "clean output", I'm pretty sure any motherboard integrated audio is fine. I'll never heard of computer noise being heard in sound output (otherwise all laptops would pretty much have terrible sound systems), only interfering with an input.

If you don't need recording inputs at all, then a sound card will be useless. Its drivers might be more efficient, but if it's a question of computer power, you could sink the money into a better processor instead.

[BooDidley7]

If you need a recording input for an XLR or Line In mic (not a USB), get a recording interface/sound card. Actually, I'm pretty sure a little converter box would do the trick, no need for a sound card. As for "clean output", I'm pretty sure any motherboard integrated audio is fine. I'll never heard of computer noise being heard in sound output (otherwise all laptops would pretty much have terrible sound systems), only interfering with an input.

If you don't need recording inputs at all, then a sound card will be useless. Its drivers might be more efficient, but if it's a question of computer power, you could sink the money into a better processor instead.

Ok, um, one dumb question though, would a 'recording interface/sound card' be an effective card for playback as well? I imagine it would, but don't want any unfortunate surprises.

[Neblix]

Ok, um, one dumb question though, would a 'recording interface/sound card' be an effective card for playback as well? I imagine it would, but don't want any unfortunate surprises.

It would be better than integrated audio, but without a need for dedicated recording inputs, it's just a waste of money. The performance boost is barely noticeable as far as playback goes (going from a laptop to an interface has raised my ability to handle things by about 1%). Only get a sound card if you want to master things in 7.1/5.1 (and your mobo doesn't have integrated 7.1/5.1)

[BooDidley7]

It would be better than integrated audio, but without a need for dedicated recording inputs, it's just a waste of money. The performance boost is barely noticeable as far as playback goes (going from a laptop to an interface has raised my ability to handle things by about 1%). Only get a sound card if you want to master things in 7.1/5.1 (and your mobo doesn't have integrated 7.1/5.1)

Alright. Much appreciated. Thanks for the input!

[Neblix]

EDIT: New 3.0.0 Driver out for Audio Kontrol 1.

This thing works GREAT now! No issues. :D

[GallenWolf]

I have been doing some recordings with an Onyx Blackjack audio interface, so far I've tested on Ubuntu + Audacity and OSX + Garageband/Audacity and it works great. I keep reading about how bad the drivers are on windows.

The headphone amps on it are definitely leagues ahead on the headphone outs on my laptop, and with my 55ohm headphones, roughly 5% on the volume knob is sufficiently loud. I'm thinking this interface can probably drive higher impedance headphones.

Something to consider for non-windows folk :)

[Incinerator Drone]

I'm in the need of both a sound card and a mic (and a MIDI controller but putting that on hold for now.)

I used to have an M-Audio Firewire sound card but... I had some trouble with it to be honest. Not sure if it was my machine or the sound card or the wire but almost every time I used it, it was very tough to get my computer to recognize it, and it would often short out mid-recording and I'd have to reboot my machine to get it recognized again. So I hesitate around M-Audio, but I'm willing to give them another shot if it's a generally good option.

Right now I have an HP machine with Windows 7 and no firewire ports, so I'd probably be looking USB. I really don't want to spend over $200 or so. The major use will be recording guitars, but I want to record some vocals as well. I probably only need one port, not planning on recording multiple things at once.

Any recommendations?

I'm also a little confused about how a pre-amp fits into the overall equation. With my old M-Audio I had borrowed a pre-amp but I could never tell the difference between using it and not when I recorded guitars. I'm not doubting that they are important (I was probably just doing it wrong) but I don't "get" it. If this is something I will need I suppose I could use recommendations there as well.

For the mic I was thinking of going with the seemingly well recommended (from another thread) SM58.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--SHUSM58

This might be a dumb question, but as the mic comes with no cord, what kind of cord should I get with it? It'd be kind of silly to spend $100 on a mic and then screw up with buying the cord somehow.