Eino Keskitalo

Thanks. To clarify: it's the same recording, the compo version was just edited, mixed (two tracks, hehe) and mastered. --Eino

I thought I'd post this for some WIP feedback. I made this for PRC130. I had an idea of including a bit from 600 AD theme from Chrono Trigger, and recorded it in the same go, but didn't include it in the compo version, as I was unsure if it was ok to use another source (and was apparently too lazy to check). In any case, here's the link: evktalo-600AD-ThemeofLove.mp3 Here's the submitted compo version: Eino Keskitalo - Remebering Rosa.mp3 The WIP version is not mixed/mastered, the compo version is (with a friend). The final version would hopefully have (at least) the sound quality of the compo version. I might not pick this up for a while, as I'm thinking the annoying, infuriating little clicks/noises I've got there require extensive rerecording. Meanwhile, I'd like your opinions on the track! Especially your thoughts about the arrangement. Which version works better? Is the 600AD bit necessary? Are the pauses too numerous? It sort of fake-ends almost as many times as Return of the King, especially the 600AD version. Is it bad? Do the noises bother you? Source for Theme of Love: http://compo.thasauce.net/files/materials/PRC130_themeoflove.mp3 And 600 A.D: Cheers, --Eino

Fresh take on the much-covered original. Props. --Eino

Don't know, drums are rather prominent in the mix already in my opinion. Tell you what - make two different quick mixes with different instruments at different levels, set them aside for a while and listen to them later, to see which one you like better and why. And keep in mind, mixing is usually done after composing/arranging/sequencing/recording/etc. So don't use too much time at it at this stage. --Eino

Great stuff, not much else to say. But I have to say the upwards three note figure that plays first at 2:45 and repeats later on doesn't sound good to me, it clashes with the bass notes or something. Similar figure just before the modulation sounds fine to me. edit: Crap, should've been more careful while listening. More that sort of stuff that sounded wrong to me: 0:42-0:43 the guitar on the right side (last note); 02:36-02:37 - two last notes/chords on guitars/synth. Can anybody else check these out? --Eino

Voted! Took much less time than in the last round. --Eino

Dude, don't worry if your software you are already successfully using to create music is "professional" enough. I tried to switch from trackers to Cubase a few years ago with such false motivation, and I felt that was a part of why I didn't make a lot of music on a computer for years. I didn't really have the motivation to properly learn Cubase, but thought I should have it. I sort of lost the joy, and the result was just unnecessary, stupid guilt from imagined external reasons. And now I'm already 25. Hehe. Sorry about the rant, but I hope that helps somehow. Happily around the same time I got active with playing in a band and songwriting so it wasn't a total loss for me. Just have fun and experiment. Learn as you go. Push yourself if it works for you, but don't worry. Worrying equals death. --Eino

It's quiet, but it's there. It sounds fuller now. I like the.. are those 32th notes? I'm thinking it could afford to be louder, but on the other hand the bass drum (which doesn't distort anymore) has a lot presence and the main synth is almost in the bassline territory. It's a mixing decision in any case. Did you change the hi-hat too? Because it's not bothering me now. Re: original music - my advice would be to not try to achieve anything, but just to have fun. --Eino

"Funk/progressive/retro.." now that sounds good to me! And the track doesn't disappoint. Tempo and rhythms, no problems with those. I like the drum/bass arrangement. It's busy, it's not your standard rock groove, but it's not "look what I can do!" either. The guitars are more straightforward, they keep it solid and not that "difficult" to listen to. But yet the rhythm backing gives a lot of interesting stuff to listen to. Great there imho. At the first listen the sound bothered me a bit. The mix feels sort of hollow and the instruments, I felt, were too separate from each other. On the second listen I've gotten used to it and it conveys a sense of space. Which is appropriate for the source. On the first listen I also was going to comment that the playing didn't sound 100% fluid and relaxed (something like 95% anyway), but now I have a hard time pointing out where exactly those 5% are.. Maybe it's that it's got a "recorded in bits" feel rather than "live" feel - I'm really just nitpicking. Good, versatile playing, great sounds, nothing to complain about. I really, really, like this. I hope to see you finish it up soon. --Eino

Intro is better now, good! New industrial sounds sound *great* to me. They overpower the strings instruments in their first section, but it didn't sound bad. I like the percussion taking the lead. It gives character to the whole mix. I'm thinking upping the industry percussion in some later section could be good, sort of balancing the arrangement. I don't have the qualms about percussion sample quality anymore. Good work! Did you change the piano? It feels like it sounds better than last time. Outro is nicer without the strings. I like this! The basswork deserves a mention too, good lines. Just checked the source, great work changing the feel of the track! --Eino

I liiiiike it. I'm much too hyped because of the game itself to give really objective criticism. Submitted already, Robotaki, or is there an update forthcoming? nudge nudge --Eino

I just finished my first playthrough and.. I love this game. The later levels get pretty intensive, I often played on the edge of my seat and got startled by any sudden action after a quiet break. The story also got a good grip on me. I don't think I got the worst ending, even. Yay! Looking forward to playing it again. I missed a lot of secrets. And apparently I'm a rampaging homicidal maniac. Great soundtrack too. Not in my favourite style, but lots of good pieces in any case. That one piece does remind me of that Rush song, though. I mean a lot. Tor is a great piece. Listening to Robotaki's WIP right now. --Eino

Long-due Ripples of Time feedback. For some strange reason YouTube isn't working for me right now, so no comment on source use/variation etc. I like this a lot, especially the part with the rhythm/time signature change towards the end. Wonderful! It even has a modulation that really works. (I often hate those.) Like Roz, though, I feel that given how much, hmm, "epicness" this track seems to promise, it doesn't quite blow it through the roof. It either needs something that would really tear the sky above it into little shreds, or you could dial it into the other direction, make it an understated piece with less big sounds, less reverb and strings that sound like a smaller section. I'm thinking this arrangement could be really effective and emotive with more intimate instrumentation. I don't like the bass during the first half, those continuous notes with the simple instrument don't server the piece as well as a bassline can. Later on it's not continuous notes anymore, which is much more effective and nice. I'm thinking the bass could be used to evoke water-like movement, like waves or the tide or even drops, a flow.. Could be really fitting, and I think you have a knack for telling a story with the music, so right now you're underutilizing the bass. --Eino

Good stuff, I enjoyed it. As always, I'm impressed by your use of tempo changes. I also dig the time signature changes. I agree with Spakku that the intro should be quieter. The next part with the industrial percussion loop (probably not technically a loop) is begging for some higher-quality samples thrown in, it's pretty lofi, which is fine in itself, but could use additional something with more presence. I feel the sound quality could be improved throughout the track, but that point especially caught my ear. --Eino

Sounds pretty good, I like the track - can't check out the source but sounds like it's pretty nice. Arrangement is a bit 'boxy', it changes every four bars exactly - well not exactly, but what I mean is it seems like it's made out of four bar boxes. It could use some more sort of "lead-ins" to introduce instruments. This is apparent in the beginning, later on you have some nice fills which are much like what I mean. So I guess you're going to work on those anyway. Some "boxyness" can of course be a good thing and make an effective arrangement. Just reporting my observation. Another thing I noticed the synth that comes in at 00:47 doesn't sound so good when the lowest note is played, it sounds like the low pass filter is a bit too tight or that specific note is suddenly lofi-ed. Looking forward to updates, I like this! --Eino

I think it's possible, it just involves a lot of work, trying out a lot of stuff without too much discrimination first and then looking at it later (possible a lot later) so you can see what really works out and what doesn't. Or so I think. I've just listened some tracks of mine that I did about ten years ago, it's pretty fun, you really can tell now what worked and what was lacking. I don't think you necessarily have to wait quite that long to tell. Yeah, I considered the new synth to be a bass, but I notice it's not really in the bass territory. I guess. Anyway, that was what I was referring to. Yeah, the kick is too loud, it even distorts. The new fast bass drum bits sound a bit overpowering now, that might be just because it's loud. Nice fill at 1:52! The hihat problem doesn't bother me as much now, although the open hi-hat sound kind of lack "click". Maybe you can mix in a quiet closed hi-hat hit. That might work. Bass is often a pretty simple part, it's main purpose is to tie the rhythm together with the harmony and melody. It can be sparse (and often should, rather than busy), so you could start by having the bass play the same as the main synth octave lower, but not all the notes, just pick the ones that feel like carry the tune / are enough. I think. --Eino

Fun and uplifting! The uplifting and the less happy sections are very nicely woven together. I'm not in love with those bell-like sounds, but I don't seem to get an allergic reaction to cheese either. That part that starts just before the halfway point is really cool. --Eino

Started working yesterday, by figuring out how to play the arpeggios on guitar. I think I got halfway through, hope there's a lot of repeats in the last half. I have most of tomorrow for the rest of the work, I'll try to produce something. --Eino

Very nice sound, intresting combination of tunes. Might indeed be problematic for this site, but nice work nonetheless. The high lead that comes in at 00:17 is still piercing, I had to turn it down on another set of headphones because it hurt, and on these it's still uncomfortable. Melody and background chords don't fit together at 00:25 and 00:28. --Eino

I think the story is not silly at all, actually. It definitely fits Sonic. Having a story in mind is probably a good device to make intresting structures for a piece of music. I don't think I've ever tried that. Into the mMiddle part. At least the first note of the wailing background synth clashes with the melody. From 00:36, the bass and synth still seem to be playing in different keys, although now the synth sounds more fitting to the idea of the part. Try to change the notes in the bassline to match the synth, something like a half an octave lower. Often when I've had similar trouble with the bassline or two lines not going well together, I've found I've had to transpose it quite a lot to find the right range. 01:04 it gets more cacophonic. Good things I find that the sound of the background synth fits very well. The synth and the bass start playing together instead of separately, it's an effective change in intensity. Again, I'd try to match the synth and the bass by transposing the bass. Rhythmically speaking, I really like how the section ends from 01:18 onwards. It conveys the sense of urgency and time running out nicely, and then there's a sense of relief as we get out of the water. The final part is now much better mixed than previously. The lead sounds pretty nice. The section is begging for a bassline. Also what I said about the hihat before still stands. I realize there's some sort of a open hihat sound there but it's so quiet and different from the closed hihat sound it doesn't keep it from sounding kind of stuttering. --Eino

Oookay, progress, good. Structurally, I think your idea with the intro, then a more serious part, then to the original source is very good. The serious part sounds suspenseful. Waiting for bad stuff to happen. The main problem with the middle part is that it is now pretty dissonant. First thing I noticed was that the new stuff added is probably in a different key than the synth in the previous version, which you've left unchanged, I think. They should match somehow, while avoiding losing the connection between the parts. Some dissonance can be good (well I personally often like dissonant stuff), and helps to create an intense atmosphere. This part just needs more work. I don't really get the beginning of the middle part with the added melody, those loud "di-dings" and the background wail - it doesn't mesh tonally. (Soundwise the instruments do sound ok together.) Another gripe is that in the final part the main synth is way too loud compared to the backing. What I liked are the added sound effects, the 8-bit splash at the end of the intro is quite perfect. --Eino

I definitely like the source, already got an idea for an arrangement. Yeah, images are from a wrong game. This is a bit older game than Morrowind. No biggie of course. --Eino

What a fun source. The approach you have is very uplifting, so this really has potential. The backing guitar at the start needs more crunch to it. In the next part it's in the same frequency range with the lead, messing it up. You should definitely tweak the sounds to make the guitars and the sequenced backings to fit together better. You definitely can play, but this needs more work. The later section does sound clearer, where you don't have the distorted rhythm guitar playing in the background. But the lead(s) are still way noisy and full of high frequencies, and sound separate from the rest of the track. When there are two guitars playing, it's difficult to tell them from each other, and they sound entangled. --Eino

I like this piece a lot. It's got a great mood to it. It's also not just a single unchanging mood from start to finish, I like the chord change around 2:00, and the modulation towards the end is very effective. I think Roz is correct in thinking that the drums make it feel more repetitive than it is. Perhaps experiment with different approaches - you can enhance the different sections of the tune greatly by varying your beat and percussion in them. The rhythm track is definitely where you should focus, the piece stands to gain the most from that area. I kinda like how minimalistic the percussion is right now. You could try to do a similarly subtle percussion track, but with a lot more variance. Also you could experiment by doing really huge, booming and loud beats for it. The right rhythm track might be somewhere in between or a combination of different stuff. There certainly are a lot of possibilities. Another (minor) thing that came to mind was that you could perhaps try to start with the ambience, let it play a bit before the first melody comes in. Probably just a few seconds, not like 30 seconds or anything. Might be worth trying if it fits. --Eino

Great round everyone! I had wonderful time. Again thanks to Rexy for running the competition and kudos to Bundeslang for picking up the task. After just two participations I can echo the sentiment from Nutritious, this competition is a great place to grow. And also have some fun. I got a lot of great feedback and constructive criticism from you guys in your votes. I got quite a confidence boost actually. Also a few pointers where I could improve. Thank you! --Eino