IGN Declares Blu-Ray Winner of The Format War

[linkspast]

Not to mention that you need a very fast broadband connection, which is still in transition. Not everyone has lightning fast broadband. Some of us still have to make do with shitty 384 kbps speeds. That's tolerable for downloading standard definition video, and totally impossible for streaming HD video.

I believe its called Internet2... When the Matrix came out they transfered the entire movie across the nation... in four seconds...

[Antipode]

I love it when someone says there's a huge difference between HD, & non-HD. What, maybe a few more pores on show for everyone to see? The fact is, most people don't really care about 1080p/720p.

I sell electronics, & to be quite honest, most people just want HD because it's HD. Not because this TV is so much clearer than that one, but merely because popular culture declared HD to be all that & a bag of chips. They really can't tell the difference, unless I point out this TV has slightly better contrast than that one.

Why I say I can't tell the difference, is basically because I'm not nitpicking every inch of every frame. Even an Xbox only looks slightly better then my regular TV. The only difference being that it's much more crisper, & I can see the graphical mistakes that much clearer.

Basically, what I'm getting at is, why do we even have a different format to begin with. DVD barely got mainstream acceptance, yet Sony wants everyone of those people, both early adopters as well as recent ones, to buy an entirely new box. I know the extra content is a big deal, but really, how many of us really watch, or have time for, the featurettes on current DVD's?

Maybe this is just a difference of perspective and maybe you're looking at different HDTVs than I am, but when I see a beautiful panoramic shot of the Alps or something on an HDTV and I can stare deeper and deeper into it and see miniscule little details that would have just entirely been crushed, blurred or cut out of an old 4:3 tube tv, I'm wowed almost every time. My parents have an HDTV at home (a 52 inch Bravia) and at school I have a tube tv, maybe 2 feet or so square (I'm not sure of the exact dimensions). When I come home and I see this thing on the wall I feel almost excited to see it - it's brand new technology, it's beautiful, crisp and clean, and extremely powerful by today's standards. It's kind of like having a new car.

But I'm getting sidetracked. Some people want HD because it's "HD" and it's the most recent thing out - it's a buzzword, and it's something to throw money at. But if you really get technical or you see it side by side with an old TV, I think you'll agree watching the old TV is like looking through a tunnel. Maybe it's just me but at that point you have to realize that the old TV is extremely outdated and it's time to move on to something new.

As for DVDs, you've got to make the same realization - that they're very outdated as well. You're correct that Sony is in a difficult position in trying to convert people who just got DVD players 8 or 9 years ago. But technology increases in complexity at an exponential rate, and it takes less and less time for a new format to be released that trumps the old one - and at this point, DVDs really are getting very constricting to quality, and it's about time they're left behind. I suppose it would be difficult to figure out how to market something that completely blows yesterday's format away - but that's the way they've got to do it. At least new machines are backward compatible. Sometimes these things have to be forced on people or there's no way the businesses can profit...just look at the digital TV forced conversion next year. It's got to be done or there's going to be a huge gap developing between people on the edge of new stuff and people who have been left behind.

[Bahamut]

Maybe this is just a difference of perspective and maybe you're looking at different HDTVs than I am, but when I see a beautiful panoramic shot of the Alps or something on an HDTV and I can stare deeper and deeper into it and see miniscule little details that would have just entirely been crushed, blurred or cut out of an old 4:3 tube tv, I'm wowed almost every time. My parents have an HDTV at home (a 52 inch Bravia) and at school I have a tube tv, maybe 2 feet or so square (I'm not sure of the exact dimensions). When I come home and I see this thing on the wall I feel almost excited to see it - it's brand new technology, it's beautiful, crisp and clean, and extremely powerful by today's standards. It's kind of like having a new car.

But I'm getting sidetracked. Some people want HD because it's "HD" and it's the most recent thing out - it's a buzzword, and it's something to throw money at. But if you really get technical or you see it side by side with an old TV, I think you'll agree watching the old TV is like looking through a tunnel. Maybe it's just me but at that point you have to realize that the old TV is extremely outdated and it's time to move on to something new.

As for DVDs, you've got to make the same realization - that they're very outdated as well. You're correct that Sony is in a difficult position in trying to convert people who just got DVD players 8 or 9 years ago. But technology increases in complexity at an exponential rate, and in less and less time for a new format to be released that trumps the old one - and at this point, DVDs really are getting very constricting to quality, and it's about time they're left behind. I suppose it would be difficult to figure out how to market something that completely blows yesterday's format away - but that's the way they've got to do it. At least new machines are backward compatible.

I beg to differ - I've been just fine with DVDs so far, and have always been displeased at this ridiculous format war attempting to displace such a cheap and capable format. Watching TV shows in HD isn't really appealing (I despise most shows) - the main draw is video games for me. Blu-ray/HD-DVD isn't a big enough jump for me to embrace mass adoption quite frankly.

[Antipode]

But do you think HD formats are actually attempting to replace the DVD? It seems to me that they're being sold together, and DVDs are still doing pretty well.

As for the appeal, I'm not sure what the difference is - many of my friends seem to be just as divided as we are between being enamored with HD formats and others wishing it wasn't being introduced at all.

[zircon]

Yeah, I really don't see the problem with DVDs as it is... I don't think they're outdated or obsolete at all. I DO notice a pretty big difference from my Xbox 360 on a 10 year old tube TV w/ the standard 3-input cable, vs. my new LCD HDTV @ 720p... but I don't think the difference is that striking for DVD vs. Blu-Ray.

[Bahamut]

But do you think HD formats are actually attempting to replace the DVD? It seems to me that they're being sold together, and DVDs are still doing pretty well.

As for the appeal, I'm not sure what the difference is - many of my friends seem to be just as divided as we are between being enamored with HD formats and others wishing it wasn't being introduced at all.

One game really highlights the difference IMO - Call of Duty 4. It is much harder to see details on a crappy regular TV compared to an HDTV (not even necessarily 720p). Everything is so crisp on my HDTV at home, it really enhances the experience and increases the range of skill based play available to me in that game.

[Antipode]

(@ zircon) I actually love DVDs and the relatively low cost at which they're able to be produced (which leads to a lot of obscure releases that might otherwise never have seen a release) - but LOTS of people are getting HDTVs now, and if you've ever seen a DVD on a big and sharp enough screen I'm sure you've noticed how blurry and blocky it gets. Plus, DVDs to my knowledge can't support widescreen without it being pre-squeezed (for the TV to reinterpret and stretch out, making it even blurrier). I know the DVD isn't OBSOLETE or anything but there has to be some kind of format for HDTVs, or it could kill one of its biggest draws. Come to think of it, it's probably not so much the difference in quality as the necessity to have any HD format to release media on.

[herograw]

DVD barely got mainstream acceptance...

Are you serious??

[Rambo]

I've never had a problem with DVD. Big ass televisions I have a problem with, because they aren't adequate at displaying them.

How many pixels are there IRL?

Anyway, as has already been said, I don't see enough of a difference between DVD - Blu-ray to really spark my interest. Though I'm certain my opinion would change if I owned a 70" wide screen. But then I'd have to sit proportionally farther away to make it look like 30" anyway.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I've never had a problem with DVD. Big ass televisions I have a problem with, because they aren't adequate at displaying them.

How many pixels are there IRL?

I think you got your priorities mixed up. DVDs are just old and antiquated for newer TVs. It's not the newer TVs' fault.

Anyway, as has already been said, I don't see enough of a difference between DVD - Blu-ray to really spark my interest. Though I'm certain my opinion would change if I owned a 70" wide screen. But then I'd have to sit proportionally farther away to make it look like 30" anyway.

Wait, who said that? You are making it sound like it's some wide consensus. It is not. Remember when we had the same discussion about technology holdovers a year or two ago? Apparently the infiltration of high definition TVs is pretty much a done deal. There is almost no physical way to buy analog TVs anymore in most stores. And not surprisingly, high def formats are catching on. I don't think the story of high definition holdovers is the majority. It's the increasingly smaller minority.

A good 25 inch screen can show a lot of difference already, not to mention a 40+ inch one. I don't understand why that myth continues to pervade.

And Bluray quality is of quite higher quality than DVD by comparison. Actually, it's really not a comparison at all especially for movies made in HD feed to begin with such as many animated CG cartoons. Ratatouille just looks ridiculous in High Definition. It looks almost too perfect and much better than it did in theaters. That, and DVDs are meant to be shown in 4:3 format analog TVs. It's just not a good, compatible format anymore for new TVs.

Also, most people seem to forget that the audio is a big selling point for higher disc formats. The audio is literally movie theater quality for all High Def DVDs and Bluray I experienced while only a select few DVDs offer a full theater sound support and even then, the depth of the sound typically doesn't match those in Bluray.

As for the appeal, I'm not sure what the difference is - many of my friends seem to be just as divided as we are between being enamored with HD formats and others wishing it wasn't being introduced at all.

I bet those wishing it wasn't introduced don't own the said HD formats at all. Compared to HDTV infiltration, the format infiltration will happen though more slowly.

Yeah, I really don't see the problem with DVDs as it is... I don't think they're outdated or obsolete at all. I DO notice a pretty big difference from my Xbox 360 on a 10 year old tube TV w/ the standard 3-input cable, vs. my new LCD HDTV @ 720p... but I don't think the difference is that striking for DVD vs. Blu-Ray.

I have no real problems with DVDs either. Just that the technology is starting to show its age and limitations compared to newer technology. That and older movies not originally made in HD feed won't make the same impact as all the newer movies that does. More Bluray/HD-DVDs of older movies and TV shows sometimes scale the visuals to the newer standard, but it's not the same quality and the difference isn't as clear then.

Also, I didn't think the difference would be that different for the DVD/Bluray until I went to a BestBuy and was glued to the demo booth. The difference is just so clear and convincing in motion (remember when people said the same for HD gaming?). It's definitely not something you can just get across with a description alone. Eventually most TV viewers and disc-buffs will catch on.

[Atomicfog]

Maybe this is just a difference of perspective and maybe you're looking at different HDTVs than I am, but when I see a beautiful panoramic shot of the Alps or something on an HDTV and I can stare deeper and deeper into it and see miniscule little details that would have just entirely been crushed, blurred or cut out of an old 4:3 tube tv, I'm wowed almost every time. My parents have an HDTV at home (a 52 inch Bravia) and at school I have a tube tv, maybe 2 feet or so square (I'm not sure of the exact dimensions). When I come home and I see this thing on the wall I feel almost excited to see it - it's brand new technology, it's beautiful, crisp and clean, and extremely powerful by today's standards. It's kind of like having a new car.

But I'm getting sidetracked. Some people want HD because it's "HD" and it's the most recent thing out - it's a buzzword, and it's something to throw money at. But if you really get technical or you see it side by side with an old TV, I think you'll agree watching the old TV is like looking through a tunnel. Maybe it's just me but at that point you have to realize that the old TV is extremely outdated and it's time to move on to something new.

As for DVDs, you've got to make the same realization - that they're very outdated as well. You're correct that Sony is in a difficult position in trying to convert people who just got DVD players 8 or 9 years ago. But technology increases in complexity at an exponential rate, and it takes less and less time for a new format to be released that trumps the old one - and at this point, DVDs really are getting very constricting to quality, and it's about time they're left behind. I suppose it would be difficult to figure out how to market something that completely blows yesterday's format away - but that's the way they've got to do it. At least new machines are backward compatible. Sometimes these things have to be forced on people or there's no way the businesses can profit...just look at the digital TV forced conversion next year. It's got to be done or there's going to be a huge gap developing between people on the edge of new stuff and people who have been left behind.

I agree, this pretty much what I would say, though maybe a bit less "block" I have few things I'd like to add though:

Technically speaking, HDTV (at 1080p) is more of a jump in resolution than standard T.V (usually 480i) to DVD (which are only 480P). I guess this doesn't mean much to most people, but let me explain something to said people.

The appeal of an HDTV might not be apparent at first, but once you sit back and watch footage on one for a day or so and become adjusted -- it's really hard to go back. It's really a privilege to your eyes, and though DVDs still look great, there is quite a difference (I'm speaking of 1080P mostly).

Now, for those who still don't notice a real difference, I'm assuming you've either only seen 720P, or you've seen a lesser resolution footage on an HDTV (VERY common at stores). I'd argue that most people sitting down to watch a true 1080P video (no upconverting), will notice an apparent difference, and given time to use the format, would prefer it. I'm also fairly certain that Blu-Ray will trump DVDs as DVDs did with VHS.

[I-n-j-i-n]

1080i resolutions in general even below 1080p are pretty good. 720p is still quite a bit above as I see it, but that's mostly a resolution for smaller HDTVs and LCDs.

And Atomicfog, I doubt the footage on TV stores is that big a deal anymore unless they make a point to show non-HD channels on them (which is usual). Like I said many times, the only good way to ascertain how good HD feed is by watching actual demo booths that only feature HD content. I think they are doing more of that now than ever.

[Atomicfog]

1080i resolutions in general even below 1080p are pretty good. 720p is still quite a bit above as I see it, but that's mostly a resolution for smaller HDTVs and LCDs.

Yeah, 720P is still quite difference, but I'd say 1080P blows it away (and I've got it on my 17" laptop LDC).

I doubt the footage on TV stores is that big a deal anymore unless they make a point to show non-HD channels on them (which is usual). content. I think they are doing more of that now than ever.

It almost seems like they do make it a point in some stores.

[Devyn]

DVD is still the winner.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Well the way I've understood it, 720p is great for anything 32' or less, whereas 1080p is best for anything about 37'. Of course, I'm not an authority on this.

To quote myself from another thread: Good thing I didn't buy the HD-DVD drive for the 360.

[Penfold]

Well the way I've understood it, 720p is great for anything 32' or less, whereas 1080p is best for anything about 37'. Of course, I'm not an authority on this.

To quote myself from another thread: Good thing I didn't buy the HD-DVD drive for the 360.

The articles I've read on the subject have stated there are factors such as viewing distance to be considered, but the rule of thumb is there's not a discernable difference between 720p and 1080p on displays smaller than 50". I could dig up the articles later, so if someone really wants the sources I can post them, though they should be easy enough for someone to find.

Anyway, because I felt very confident in the research I've done on the subject, I'll actually be getting a 42" 720p Panasonic plasma on Friday. I was holding back before because I wanted to make a well informed descision and not unnecessarily spend more money on an aspect of the display that won't matter...that and I wanted to get the tv at Costco due to their great return policy and free extended warranty. Wanted to get a 42" Pioneer Kuro, but it didn't seem like it'd be making its way to those stores any time soon and I'm only so patient. There was also an article specifically on the Panasonic plasma series my soon-to-be-tv is from, where they compared the 50" 720p and the 50" 1080p models. They found there were more drawbacks than benefits to getting the 1080p model, and that pretty much sealed the deal for me.

I'm interested to see what my 360 games will look like on the plasma after having played them on my current tv.

To echo Malaki's sentiments, I'm pretty glad I didn't get the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 like I originally planned if the format's just gonna die. I am gonna wait until it's fully dead before considering getting a PS3/Bluray player, personally, though I know there's a lot of content I'd like to get if/when that does happen.

[The Joker]

Also, for the record, what I meant by barely gaining mainstream acceptance, is that DVD's are no longer a luxury item. Most people now have more than 1 DVD player in their house. That's what I meant. It has become big enough that it's the de facto video player now.

As for true 1080p, I've seen it, it doesn't impress me. It's just not that much of an improvement. Unless, you've got a 60" HD sitting in your living room. Then, yeah, you got a point.

[The Pezman]

Also, for ythe record, what I meant by barely gaining mainstream accapetcance, is that DVD's are no longer a luxury item. Most people now have more than 1 DVD player in their house. That's what I meant. It has become big enough that it's the de facto video player now.

I don't understand how you could use those words in that order and possibly mean what you said you mean.

[Atomicfog]

The articles I've read on the subject have stated there are factors such as viewing distance to be considered, but the rule of thumb is there's not a discernable difference between 720p and 1080p on displays smaller than 50". I could dig up the articles later, so if someone really wants the sources I can post them, though they should be easy enough for someone to find.

.

Umm... No. Either your sources are crap, or you read them wrong (post them).

I have a 1080P 17" LCD on my latptop, and there is definitely a noticeable difference in quality between that and a laptops of lesser resolutions.

[vega12]

Umm... No. Either your sources are crap, or you read them wrong (post them).

I have a 1080P 17" LCD on my latptop, and there is definitely a noticeable difference in quality between that and a laptops of lesser resolutions.

When you're working with the compressed video of HDTV though, the difference is minimal at best typically what is meant. When dealing with computer resolutions, which are perfect, of course it's easy to tell the difference between sharper edges and stuff. However, for most people they simply watch TV on their TVs, and so 720p and 1080p are basically indistinguishable. Especially when there's basically no 1080p streaming TV out there. And with 1080i being upscaled to 1080p, the 1080i is considered good enough for almost anyone.

[Atomicfog]

When you're working with the compressed video of HDTV though, the difference is minimal at best typically what is meant. When dealing with computer resolutions, which are perfect, of course it's easy to tell the difference between sharper edges and stuff. However, for most people they simply watch TV on their TVs, and so 720p and 1080p are basically indistinguishable. Especially when there's basically no 1080p streaming TV out there. And with 1080i being upscaled to 1080p, the 1080i is considered good enough for almost anyone.

That might be a valid point if we were talking about T.V., but we're talking about Blu-Ray here (which is 1080P), not compressed T.V. HD.

[Hyperion5182]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm

It is now offical.

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2008_02/pr1903.htm

HD-DVD=dead

[SwordBreaker]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm

It is now offical.

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2008_02/pr1903.htm

HD-DVD=dead

Yup, yup. Glad Toshiba backed down sooner than expected. It'll be interesting to see how Paramount and Universal word their support for Blu-ray.

[Penfold]

That might be a valid point if we were talking about T.V., but we're talking about Blu-Ray here (which is 1080P), not compressed T.V. HD.

I think you missed his point.

Source #1: http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6810011-1.html

(Incidentally Vega was referring to a point they made in #10)

Source #2: http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/

Source #3: http://www.hometheatermag.com/advicefromtheexperts/105tvshoptips/index.html

There are others readily available as well, like this question so frequently being referenced in HDTV Q&A on IGN. The end result is that it's not necessarily so important that the source is 1080p, depending on your screen size and how close you're sitting. Its different, as Vega pointed out, when it comes to computer resolutions, but when it comes to hooking up your 360, PS3, Blu-Ray player, or whatever other HD source that's the rule of thumb.

[The Pezman]

I don't have a 360, so fill me in: Doesn't it use HD-DVDs, and if so, will there be new versions and games adopting the blu-ray standard?